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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Razgovory on August 22, 2013, 08:21:48 PM

Title: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2013, 08:21:48 PM
I've been playing a lot of Crusader Kings II and have become curious on history of the Carolingian the states they set up?  Any one know some good books on the time period of Charlemagne and his successors?
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2013, 08:28:00 PM
Not the main focus but the INhertance of Rome has several hundred pages on the Carolingians.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: mongers on August 22, 2013, 09:08:10 PM
Berkut seems to typify what you're after.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2013, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 22, 2013, 09:08:10 PM
Berkut seems to typify what you're after.

God, I hope not.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2013, 12:33:13 AM
Christopher Lee tells the story of Charlemagne in song. You might want to check it out.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2013, 12:45:09 AM
:punk:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_8wAEdQm51Ds%2FS7kAkGHbODI%2FAAAAAAAADDw%2Fozos___hS1U%2Fs1600%2FAlbumCover.jpg&hash=3f36cedf069e941b74ed598c440eae2a9788a94e)
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: mongers on August 23, 2013, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2013, 12:45:09 AM
:punk:

......

Tim, your taint ability only works one way.

So Tainted+TimmayTaint=Excellent    :(
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2013, 09:26:51 AM
It seems hard to get books both on this and on the Diadokhoi even though both of those eras were not only badass but really important for what followed.  Strange.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2013, 09:43:08 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Debating-Middle-Ages-Issues-Readings/dp/1577180089
Covers part of the period, order it used in paperback

http://www.amazon.com/Feudal-Transformation-900-1200-Europe-Present/dp/0841911673/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377268518&sr=1-1&keywords=feudal+transformation
Classic work, a bit academic, really covers the breakdown of the Carolingian system and what came after.

http://www.amazon.com/Serf-Knight-Historian-Dominique-Barth%C3%A9lemy/dp/0801475600/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377268875&sr=1-3&keywords=dominique+barthelemy
Again focus is on the period of the Carolingian breakdown.

Sorry couldn't be more helpful, my interest has been more in the periods preceding and following the Carolingian empire.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: crazy canuck on August 23, 2013, 11:36:16 AM
Raz,  I highly recommend Charlemagne: Father of a Continent by Alessandro Barbero

http://books.google.ca/books?id=F8xCDQHUEIkC&source=gbs_similarbooks

Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Malthus on August 23, 2013, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2013, 09:26:51 AM
It seems hard to get books both on this and on the Diadokhoi even though both of those eras were not only badass but really important for what followed.  Strange.

The problem with the wars of the successors is that they were fractially complex.  :D
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2013, 02:50:05 PM
Almost forgot:
Julia Smith's, Europe After Rome   http://www.amazon.com/Europe-after-Rome-Cultural-500-1000/dp/0192892630/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1377287250&sr=8-3&keywords=julia+smith
Broader coverage than your are looking for and a quirky book, but an interesting take on the Carolingians.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2013, 03:03:41 PM
For military matters:
http://www.amazon.com/Early-Carolingian-Warfare-Prelude-Empire/dp/0812221443/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377288133&sr=8-1&keywords=bachrach+carolingian
On my wish list; haven't read yet, but he is supposed to be a specialist in this area.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Ed Anger on August 23, 2013, 05:29:18 PM
I don't know if there are any books on Oscar Meyer.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 23, 2013, 06:46:13 PM
What are the ref tags for minsky? You have a side gig?
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Razgovory on August 23, 2013, 07:48:48 PM
Thanks guys.  It's really a period I know very little about.  I hope to remedy that.  Thank God for the internet.  I can order a 70 dollar book you wouldn't even be able to find in a one horse town like like Jefferson City less then 10 bucks.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 23, 2013, 09:47:40 PM
You could presumably have gotten it through inter-library loan... you just wouldn't have known of its existence.

CKII has made me curious, too. All those Karlings.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Agelastus on August 24, 2013, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 23, 2013, 03:03:41 PM
For military matters:
http://www.amazon.com/Early-Carolingian-Warfare-Prelude-Empire/dp/0812221443/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377288133&sr=8-1&keywords=bachrach+carolingian
On my wish list; haven't read yet, but he is supposed to be a specialist in this area.

He's also supposed to be controversial with ideas that would be considered "left field".

Admittedly, this was related to me by three different lecturers at King's College London over 15 years ago when I was doing a 10000 word dissertation on Carolingian warfare during the reign of Charlemagne; he may be considered orthodox now.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 26, 2013, 10:46:52 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 23, 2013, 06:46:13 PM
What are the ref tags for minsky? You have a side gig?

Just looked up all the books I read that I could recall related to the subject.
Except the Bachrach one; I just remembered the name.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Razgovory on August 28, 2013, 07:54:02 PM
Got the first book in the mail today.  I realized that Minsky referenced it a few years back by it's French name.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 03, 2013, 05:19:00 PM
Is that the Michel Rouche book?  My recollection is that book was bit heavier on the Merovingian side, although it might just be that was the part that stuck in my mind.  The Merovingians tend to be more interesting, in a HBO miniseries sort of way.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: Razgovory on September 03, 2013, 06:05:04 PM
Nope the Feudal Transformation.  You were discussing something with Shelf, and he mentioned a theory and you asked if it was "La Mutation feodale"  It's certainly not for a novice though.  I have a decent grounding in Latin, and the middle ages but I still get lost sometimes.  It would help if a the authors defined a Latin term before using it.  They sometimes get around to explaining it.  For instance I know what Latrocinium means but I had to look up Vicarii.
Title: Re: Book suggestions on the Frankish empire.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 04, 2013, 09:02:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 03, 2013, 06:05:04 PM
Nope the Feudal Transformation.  You were discussing something with Shelf, and he mentioned a theory and you asked if it was "La Mutation feodale"  It's certainly not for a novice though.  I have a decent grounding in Latin, and the middle ages but I still get lost sometimes.  It would help if a the authors defined a Latin term before using it.  They sometimes get around to explaining it.  For instance I know what Latrocinium means but I had to look up Vicarii.

Knowing the Latin wouldn't necessarily help because the nature of the title changes changes over time and space - if a term is left untranslated, it is probably because it isn't really translatable without losing nuance.

BTW the Rouche book is pretty good "The Roots of Europe" ("Racines d'Europe").  Not sure if there is a an English translation.  There is a good discussion in there of tanistry.