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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on July 30, 2013, 06:40:15 PM

Title: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 30, 2013, 06:40:15 PM
Sounds about right to me.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/30/19776548-manning-acquitted-of-aiding-enemy-but-convicted-on-other-charges?lite

QuoteManning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges

By Jim Miklaszewski, Courtney Kube, Katie Wall and Erin McClam, NBC News

Pfc. Bradley Manning, the former Army intelligence analyst who was branded both a whistle-blower and a traitor after he sent 700,000 secret government documents to WikiLeaks, was acquitted Tuesday of aiding the enemy but convicted of most other charges.

Manning was convicted of 20 of the remaining 21 counts, including seven dealing with espionage. He was found guilty of leaking intelligence knowing it would be accessible to the enemy, releasing classified information and disobeying orders.

Aiding the enemy was the most serious charge and carried a potential life sentence.

The judge in Manning's court-martial, Col. Denise Lind, found that Manning had "no intent" to provide the enemy with classified information but was "negligent" in releasing the documents.

"Today is a good day, but Bradley is by no means out of the fire," Manning's lawyer, David Coombs, told supporters.

Supporters cheered, "Hip hip, hooray!" Coombs concluded: "This is a huge, huge victory."

Manning himself showed no reaction during the reading of the verdict. He showed a slight smile after court was dismissed.

The charges of which Manning was convicted carry a total of 136 years in prison if the sentences are imposed consecutively. Besides aiding the enemy, he was acquitted on an espionage count dealing with two specific computer files, a video and a database.

The sentencing phase of the court-martial, which could take several weeks, begins Wednesday morning. Because it was a general court-martial, Manning gets an automatic appeal to the Army Court of Criminal Appeals, probably within six months of sentencing.

Manning had already pleaded guilty to 10 charges that carry up to 20 years in prison, plus a dishonorable discharge. But prosecutors pushed ahead with more serious counts, including aiding the enemy.

Manning, 25, has said he was disillusioned by an American foreign policy bent on "killing and capturing people" when he released the documents, including battlefield reports and diplomatic cables, in 2010.

In a closing argument at the court-martial, Coombs argued that Manning was "trying to ply his knowledge to hopefully save lives," was young and naïve and thought he could make a difference.

Military prosecutors said Manning was not a whistle-blower but a traitor. They said Manning knew that enemies of the United States use WikiLeaks as a resource, and they said some of the documents he released wound up in the hands of al Qaeda.

The prosecutors said Manning craved notoriety and put his fellow soldiers at risk.

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said from the Ecuadorean Embassy in London, where he has been hold up for more than a year to avoid extradition to Sweden, that Manning was a hero and that the case set a dangerous precedent.

"This was never a fair trial," he told a small group of reporters, according to the British news agency Press Association.

Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., and Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger, D-Md., the chairman and ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, said that justice was served by Tuesday's verdict.

"PFC Manning harmed our national security, violated the public's trust, and now stands convicted of multiple serious crimes," they said in a joint statement. "There is still much work to be done to reduce the ability of criminals like Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden to harm our national security."

The White House and State Department said they had no comment.

Manning has been jailed at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., since April 2011 and was at the military prison in Quantico, Va., for nine months before that.

Among his defenders is Daniel Ellsberg, who in 1971 leaked what become known as the Pentagon Papers to The New York Times. Those papers showed that the government was systematically misleading the public about U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Neil on July 30, 2013, 07:06:31 PM
It's a shame that they won't hang him.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Ed Anger on July 30, 2013, 07:07:55 PM
I hope Manning and Snowden get donkey punched in gaol.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 31, 2013, 12:21:04 PM
I agree overall the right result, and a overall process that reflects well on the quality and professionalism of the military justice system.

However. The press was given access to much of the trial through a remote viewing room but bizarrely was not allowed to see transcripts.  So they had to pay to have a court reporter take down the testimony in the viewing room.  I thought that was rather bush league from the government.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Brain on July 31, 2013, 12:43:30 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 31, 2013, 12:21:04 PM
I agree overall the right result, and a overall process that reflects well on the quality and professionalism of the military justice system.

However. The press was given access to much of the trial through a remote viewing room but bizarrely was not allowed to see transcripts.  So they had to pay to have a court reporter take down the testimony in the viewing room.  I thought that was rather bush league from the government.

You advocate putting him out of work to increase shareholder value?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Zanza on August 21, 2013, 10:57:03 AM
35 years, eligible for parole after one third of that. Sounds reasonable and adequate. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/judge-to-sentence-bradley-manning-today/2013/08/20/85bee184-09d0-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:15:51 AM
I would've preferred firing squad. 
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:17:22 AM
Parole after 12 seems a little soft.  Dude is going to get a sweet book deal when he gets out.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 11:19:47 AM
Quote from: Zanza on August 21, 2013, 10:57:03 AM
35 years, eligible for parole after one third of that. Sounds reasonable and adequate. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/judge-to-sentence-bradley-manning-today/2013/08/20/85bee184-09d0-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html

I'm inclined to agree.

Does make one wonder what will happen to Snowden now, though.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:21:04 AM
I could live with giving this little shit 35 years w/o parole *if* we get to shoot that Hasan fucker in his wheelchair.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 11:25:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:21:04 AM
I could live with giving this little shit 35 years w/o parole *if* we get to shoot that Hasan fucker in his wheelchair.

You can't live with the current situation? :(
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:29:05 AM
Who is that Hasan fucker? :unsure:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:29:32 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 11:25:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:21:04 AM
I could live with giving this little shit 35 years w/o parole *if* we get to shoot that Hasan fucker in his wheelchair.

You can't live with the current situation? :(

Not happily  <_<
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:29:05 AM
Who is that Hasan fucker? :unsure:

Goddamn, Yi!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:35:51 AM
 :rolleyes: Like you couldn't just say the Ft. Hood shooter.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:35:51 AM
:rolleyes: Like you couldn't just say the Ft. Hood shooter.

HE HAS A NAME
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:38:06 AM
Terrorist lover. :blurgh:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Caliga on August 21, 2013, 11:38:34 AM
See, this thread is why I wish Mart was here.  He could tell us about how Manning should have been acquitted and Amerikkka sucks and is evil. :(
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:54:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:38:06 AM
Terrorist lover. :blurgh:

Come on, now.  It was not an act of terrorism, but an occurrence of workplace violence. 

Also, as tragic as it was, it would be more tragic of we lost our diversity  :cry:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:54:12 AM
Come on, now.  It was not an act of terrorism, but an occurrence of workplace violence. 

And why does American military personnel have access to guns anyways?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Ed Anger on August 21, 2013, 12:04:00 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 21, 2013, 11:38:34 AM
See, this thread is why I wish Mart was here.  He could tell us about how Manning should have been acquitted and Amerikkka sucks and is evil. :(

Get over glaring lovingly at mart's feet.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 21, 2013, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:21:04 AM
I could live with giving this little shit 35 years w/o parole *if* we get to shoot that Hasan fucker in his wheelchair.

Wouldn't it be better to shoot him in the gut or at least his leg?  He can always get a new wheelchair.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
:rolleyes:  See, this is why Jews always failed at comedy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:18:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
:rolleyes:  See, this is why Jews always failed at comedy.

:hmm:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mentalfloss.com%2Fblogs%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fbrooks-150x150.jpg&hash=f3d73518bba9b2f28b8948cd6e9f0d4983af4b06)
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 12:35:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
:rolleyes:  See, this is why Jews always failed at comedy.

I didn't know you were Jewish!?!
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:38:25 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:18:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
:rolleyes:  See, this is why Jews always failed at comedy.

:hmm:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mentalfloss.com%2Fblogs%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fbrooks-150x150.jpg&hash=f3d73518bba9b2f28b8948cd6e9f0d4983af4b06)

Jeez, woman.  Ever heard of sarcasm?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:38:25 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:18:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
:rolleyes:  See, this is why Jews always failed at comedy.

:hmm:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mentalfloss.com%2Fblogs%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fbrooks-150x150.jpg&hash=f3d73518bba9b2f28b8948cd6e9f0d4983af4b06)

Jeez, woman.  Ever heard of sarcasm?

No. :( I must be Jewish. :weep:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
No. :( I must be Jewish. :weep:

If you were, you'd probably detect it better. 
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: dps on August 21, 2013, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:38:25 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:18:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:08:32 PM
:rolleyes:  See, this is why Jews always failed at comedy.

:hmm:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mentalfloss.com%2Fblogs%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F08%2Fbrooks-150x150.jpg&hash=f3d73518bba9b2f28b8948cd6e9f0d4983af4b06)

Jeez, woman.  Ever heard of sarcasm?

Or seen his last few movies, for that matter.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on August 21, 2013, 01:14:40 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 21, 2013, 12:06:42 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 11:21:04 AM
I could live with giving this little shit 35 years w/o parole *if* we get to shoot that Hasan fucker in his wheelchair.

Wouldn't it be better to shoot him in the gut or at least his leg?  He can always get a new wheelchair.
:lol:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on August 21, 2013, 01:15:22 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
No. :( I must be Jewish. :weep:

If you were, you'd probably detect it better.
:huh: You must be thinking of money.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: dps on August 21, 2013, 01:23:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 21, 2013, 01:15:22 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 21, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
No. :( I must be Jewish. :weep:

If you were, you'd probably detect it better.
:huh: You must be thinking of money.

Nah, Seedy isn't Jewish.  He's posted plenty of times about being Catholic.



;)
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on August 21, 2013, 01:32:40 PM
Seems about right to me, 12 total years assuming he gets parole the first try. I was thinking anywhere from 10-20 sounded right for him. I don't view him the same as Ames or Hanssen but the people who compare him to a whistleblower are confused about what whistleblowing really is.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 07:41:13 AM
QuoteBradley Manning: I want to live as a woman
Scott Stump TODAY contributor

Bradley Manning, the Army private sentenced to military prison for leaking classified documents, revealed he intends to live out the remainder of his life as a woman.

"I am Chelsea Manning. I am female," the Army private wrote in a statement read on TODAY Thursday. "Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition."

Manning, 25, was sentenced to 35 years in prison on Wednesday after having been found guilty of 20 charges ranging from espionage to theft for leaking more than 700,000 documents to the WikiLeaks website while working in Iraq in 2010.

http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915

(https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_laba97ti5I1qd2avdo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Neil on August 22, 2013, 07:56:02 AM
Seriously?  Can't they just hang that freak?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Bradley Manning does seem to be a rather broken individual.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Valmy on August 22, 2013, 08:11:13 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on August 21, 2013, 01:32:40 PM
him to a whistleblower are confused about what whistleblowing really is.

Clearly it is an incredibly complex and complicated term that only applies in very specific circumstances.  Rather a meaningless and pointless distinction I have come to discover. 

Anyway glad Manning got um...her...trial finally and the sentence certainly could have been worse I suppose.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: merithyn on August 22, 2013, 08:17:06 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 22, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Bradley Manning does seem to be a rather broken individual.

He claimed very early on that part of the reason that he did what he did was because of how he felt marginalized by the military. He's been claiming for quite a while that he is transgender, and that it caused problems with his career.

I can't imagine how difficult that must be, but I do believe that it could easily cause one to be rather broken.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Neil on August 22, 2013, 08:18:33 AM
So see a psychiatrist and quit being so fucking weird.  Either get a new job or get new hobbies.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2013, 08:20:38 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 07:41:13 AM
QuoteBradley Manning: I want to live as a woman
Scott Stump TODAY contributor

Bradley Manning, the Army private sentenced to military prison for leaking classified documents, revealed he intends to live out the remainder of his life as a woman.

"I am Chelsea Manning. I am female," the Army private wrote in a statement read on TODAY Thursday. "Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition."

Manning, 25, was sentenced to 35 years in prison on Wednesday after having been found guilty of 20 charges ranging from espionage to theft for leaking more than 700,000 documents to the WikiLeaks website while working in Iraq in 2010.

http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915

(https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_laba97ti5I1qd2avdo1_500.gif)


:o  And I thought he was so rugged!

:lol:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 08:21:19 AM
Just like Snowden, if this were pre-9/11, he wouldn't have been in a position to do what he did. 
Man, how the standards have dropped across the board.  The need for bodies is that bad, just bring back the draft.  We all registered for Selective Service for a reason.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2013, 08:21:54 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 22, 2013, 08:17:06 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 22, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
Bradley Manning does seem to be a rather broken individual.

He claimed very early on that part of the reason that he did what he did was because of how he felt marginalized by the military. He's been claiming for quite a while that he is transgender, and that it caused problems with his career.

I can't imagine how difficult that must be, but I do believe that it could easily cause one to be rather broken.

I haven't paid close attention as I didn't find any of it particularly interesting. -_-
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Ed Anger on August 22, 2013, 08:26:08 AM
Dear god, that Archie gif made me snort orange juice through my nose.

THAT SHIT BURNS

:lol:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 08:27:26 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 22, 2013, 08:26:08 AM
Dear god, that Archie gif made me snort orange juice through my nose.

THAT SHIT BURNS

:lol:

I'm just glad Archie's not alive to see all this Manning-Snowden stuff.
Then again, Obama's inauguration would've killed him anyway.  :lol:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Valmy on August 22, 2013, 08:30:26 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 08:21:19 AM
Just like Snowden, if this were pre-9/11, he wouldn't have been in a position to do what he did. 
Man, how the standards have dropped across the board.  The need for bodies is that bad, just bring back the draft.  We all registered for Selective Service for a reason.

:hmm: I don't know man.  With the draft the chances of more revolutionary patriots like Manning and Snowden being put into sensitive positions would only increase.  55% of the American public call Snowden a whistleblower.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Valmy on August 22, 2013, 08:33:15 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 08:27:26 AM
I'm just glad Archie's not alive to see all this Manning-Snowden stuff.
Then again, Obama's inauguration would've killed him anyway.  :lol:

There are quite a few people I would have loved to have lived long enough so I could have seen their reaction to Obama's inauguration :lol:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 08:35:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 22, 2013, 08:30:26 AM
:hmm: I don't know man.  With the draft the chances of more revolutionary patriots like Manning and Snowden being put into sensitive positions would only increase.

Doubtful.  Neither one of them would make the cut, as the draft would produce more qualified applicants without such personality issues to choose from in a much wider pool, rather than relying on a smaller selection pool to choose from and being forced to square peg round holes with assholes like them.

Quote55% of the American public call Snowden a whistleblower.

55% of Americans think the capital of North Dakota is South Dakota.  Big fucking deal.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Caliga on August 22, 2013, 10:38:44 AM
 :lmfao: @ the Archie gif
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 22, 2013, 03:28:15 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 22, 2013, 08:17:06 AM
He claimed very early on that part of the reason that he did what he did was because of how he felt marginalized by the military. He's been claiming for quite a while that he is transgender, and that it caused problems with his career.

He's claiming now that he did it for love of his country.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Tonitrus on August 22, 2013, 03:45:00 PM
Isn't patriotism the last refuge of a scoundrel?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Neil on August 22, 2013, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 22, 2013, 03:45:00 PM
Isn't patriotism the last refuge of a scoundrel?
And the virtue of the vicious.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 22, 2013, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 22, 2013, 05:11:39 PM
And the virtue of the vicious.

Damn, I'm full of nerd moments today.  That alliteration just jammed the V speech from V for Vendetta into my head. :(
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2013, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 07:41:13 AM
QuoteBradley Manning: I want to live as a woman
Scott Stump TODAY contributor

Bradley Manning, the Army private sentenced to military prison for leaking classified documents, revealed he intends to live out the remainder of his life as a woman.

"I am Chelsea Manning. I am female," the Army private wrote in a statement read on TODAY Thursday. "Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition."

Manning, 25, was sentenced to 35 years in prison on Wednesday after having been found guilty of 20 charges ranging from espionage to theft for leaking more than 700,000 documents to the WikiLeaks website while working in Iraq in 2010.

http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915 (http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915)


It would seem this investigation is more fruitful then first anticipated.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2013, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2013, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 07:41:13 AM
QuoteBradley Manning: I want to live as a woman
Scott Stump TODAY contributor

Bradley Manning, the Army private sentenced to military prison for leaking classified documents, revealed he intends to live out the remainder of his life as a woman.

"I am Chelsea Manning. I am female," the Army private wrote in a statement read on TODAY Thursday. "Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition."

Manning, 25, was sentenced to 35 years in prison on Wednesday after having been found guilty of 20 charges ranging from espionage to theft for leaking more than 700,000 documents to the WikiLeaks website while working in Iraq in 2010.

http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915 (http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915)


It would seem this investigation is more fruitful then first anticipated.

:huh:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2013, 09:51:29 PM
:lol:  Good one, Raz :cheers: #12in13
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Scipio on August 23, 2013, 05:50:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2013, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 22, 2013, 07:41:13 AM
QuoteBradley Manning: I want to live as a woman
Scott Stump TODAY contributor

Bradley Manning, the Army private sentenced to military prison for leaking classified documents, revealed he intends to live out the remainder of his life as a woman.

"I am Chelsea Manning. I am female," the Army private wrote in a statement read on TODAY Thursday. "Given the way that I feel, and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible. I hope that you will support me in this transition."

Manning, 25, was sentenced to 35 years in prison on Wednesday after having been found guilty of 20 charges ranging from espionage to theft for leaking more than 700,000 documents to the WikiLeaks website while working in Iraq in 2010.

http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915 (http://www.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915)


It would seem this investigation is more fruitful then first anticipated.
"I want to be called Loretta."

-Stan, Life of Brian
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on August 23, 2013, 09:48:50 AM
That's one way of getting the operation covered by the state.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:36:58 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 23, 2013, 09:48:50 AM
That's one way of getting the operation covered by the state.

And to avoid being imprisoned with a bunch of men much larger and much meaner than you.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on August 23, 2013, 11:53:22 AM
I think some State prison systems support individuals who want hormone therapy and will put them in protective custody (I don't believe they'll incarcerate them in women's prisons but I could be wrong), however I don't believe the military prison system does any of that. I suspect this is going to end up in a lawsuit to try and force the matter.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 23, 2013, 11:55:09 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 23, 2013, 11:36:58 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 23, 2013, 09:48:50 AM
That's one way of getting the operation covered by the state.

And to avoid being imprisoned with a bunch of men much larger and much meaner than you.

I've seen a few military prisoners.  Pretty much all of them were skinny little fucks like Miss Manning.  Probably meaner, though :lol:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Neil on August 23, 2013, 11:58:30 AM
Which doesn't make sense.  Isn't the whole point of the prison system to ensure that the prisoners are raped?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 10:50:52 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on August 23, 2013, 09:48:50 AM
That's one way of getting the operation covered by the state.

He said he only wants hormone therapy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 10:54:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2013, 10:50:52 AM
He said he only wants hormone therapy.

Titty sprinkles.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:00:19 AM
At any rate, I am a troglodytes and don't understand being trans. The LGB model has gender role behavior as something societally constructed. The T model seems heavily anchored in the biological model.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
The Ts, I can understand. Sometimes you're born in the wrong body, and sometimes you just like to feel pretty.

The B, however, is a total fucking cop-out.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
The Ts, I can understand. Sometimes you're born in the wrong body, and sometimes you just like to feel pretty.

Those are two separate things though. The latter falls under the society construction model of gender role behavior and rejecting that (which many gay people do to various extents). Saying you've been born in the wrong body is a different kettle of fish.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:09:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
The Ts, I can understand. Sometimes you're born in the wrong body, and sometimes you just like to feel pretty.

Those are two separate things though. The latter falls under the society construction model of gender role behavior and rejecting that (which many gay people do to various extents). Saying you've been born in the wrong body is a different kettle of fish.

That's why I used Ts in plural, and two independent clauses. :hug:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:16:25 AM
Yeah which says little then to my opening statement. :P
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:20:01 AM
Great, another fucking lawyer.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:24:49 AM
:huh:

I said I don't understand and your pithy response was I do.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:28:37 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
The Ts,I can understand.

I =/ YUO
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:47:25 AM
Nevermind.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:51:52 AM
Woohoo! In your face, Flanders!
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on August 24, 2013, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:00:19 AM
At any rate, I am a troglodytes and don't understand being trans. The LGB model has gender role behavior as something societally constructed. The T model seems heavily anchored in the biological model.
:yes: I think I rate as pretty tolerant of homosexuality, and probably in the top 1% of heterosexual Russian speakers, but transsexuality just gives me creeps.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: lustindarkness on August 24, 2013, 01:59:27 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 24, 2013, 11:03:11 AM
Sometimes you're born in the wrong body, and sometimes you just like to feel pretty.

Tell us more of how you feel.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 24, 2013, 02:16:24 PM
I don't believe in transsexuals. They're just men who've cut their penises off. (Or women who've pasted one on). :alberta:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: grumbler on August 24, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 24, 2013, 02:16:24 PM
.. They're just men who've cut their penises off. (Or women who've pasted one on). :alberta:

The latter have had an operation called an Addadictomy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Brain on August 24, 2013, 05:22:31 PM
Is there any operation you can get if you are male, but feel that you aren't male enough? I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on August 24, 2013, 07:58:05 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 24, 2013, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 24, 2013, 11:00:19 AM
At any rate, I am a troglodytes and don't understand being trans. The LGB model has gender role behavior as something societally constructed. The T model seems heavily anchored in the biological model.
:yes: I think I rate as pretty tolerant of homosexuality, and probably in the top 1% of heterosexual Russian speakers, but transsexuality just gives me creeps.

To be clear, I am not creeped out by transexuality.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: derspiess on August 24, 2013, 09:48:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 24, 2013, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 24, 2013, 02:16:24 PM
.. They're just men who've cut their penises off. (Or women who've pasted one on). :alberta:

The latter have had an operation called an Addadictomy.

:thumbsup:

But I think you should know: Rush Limbaugh likes to use that term.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2015, 07:18:53 AM
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/chelsea-manning-feels-like-a-1294507071078454.html

QuoteChelsea Manning "feels like a freak" with 2-inch prison haircut, sues Army

It would be hard to imagine the saga of Chelsea Manning getting any stranger — or more poignant. But it did one night in September when the former U.S. Army intelligence analyst, who is serving a 35-year prison term for leaking hundreds of thousands of classified government documents to WikiLeaks, broke down in tears after authorities at the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., told her she had to cut her hair.

It was the latest in what Manning — who was born a male named Bradley — saw as a cascade of indignities and injustices. Just weeks earlier, she had been temporarily deprived of recreational and library privileges after guards seized unauthorized reading materials (including a copy of Vanity Fair magazine with Caitlyn Jenner on the cover) as well as expired toothpaste in her prison cell.

Only now, as Manning perceived it, the U.S. military was messing with her right to be who she is — a woman — and reinforcing the idea that she is a misfit.

"I felt gross — like Frankenstein's monster wandering around the countryside avoiding angry mobs with torches and pitchforks," she wrote in a blog post from prison. Feeling "humiliated, hurt and rejected," she felt like "giving up" and said she "cried and cried and cried and sniffled a little bit, and then cried some more."

But Manning, in comments sent from prison to Yahoo News, says she has now overcome her despair and is once again ready to fight the U.S. government in court.

With the help of a premier civil liberties law firm, she is working on an appeal —likely to be filed early next year — of her 2013 conviction for violations of the Espionage Act. She will argue, among other points, that she was in fact a whistleblower who exposed U.S. government abuses and was never given the opportunity to present her motives during her court martial.

Simultaneously, Manning is pursuing a separate lawsuit challenging her treatment in prison. It is a novel case that could pose an awkward dilemma for the Obama administration, which has publicly championed the rights of transgender individuals, including those in prison, yet now stands accused of violating those rights when it comes to the most high-profile transgender inmate in U.S. custody.

In recently filed court papers, Manning, who began receiving hormone therapy at taxpayer expense earlier this year, alleges that prison officials are undermining her treatment for "gender dysphoria," the medical term used for individuals who feel trapped in the wrong sex, by forcing her to cut her hair to the same 2-inch length as male prisoners, thereby depriving her of her ability to express herself in a "feminine manner."

"Plaintiff feels like a freak and a weirdo," Manning asserts in her complaint, "not because having short hair makes a person less of a woman — but because for her, it undermines specifically recommended treatment and sends the message to everyone that she is not a 'real' woman."
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Zanza on November 09, 2015, 12:49:42 PM
Expired toothpaste ... what exactly is Uncle Sam's interest in regulating what kind of toothpaste even the highest profile inmates use? That seems a bit too small minded even for a government bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2015, 01:53:59 PM
Well it looks like this. Also, I'm thinking less like bureaucracy and more like Chelsea is a pain to put up with as a prisoner and the guards are dinging her on it.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/12/chelsea-manning-solitary-confinement-toothpaste-army

QuoteThe fourth charge, "medicine misuse", follows an inspection of Manning's cell on 9 July during which a tube of anti-cavity toothpaste was found. The prison authorities noted that Manning was entitled to have the toothpaste in her cell, but is penalizing her because it was "past its expiration date of 9 April 2015".
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on November 09, 2015, 01:56:25 PM
The expiration date is there for a reason.  An expired toothpaste is not a toothpaste anymore, so whatever allowances exist for toothpaste no longer apply.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:04:44 PM
Wow, I didn't realize how intolerant we were to Transsexuals two years ago.  Even garbon. :(
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:05:46 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 09, 2015, 01:56:25 PM
The expiration date is there for a reason.  An expired toothpaste is not a toothpaste anymore, so whatever allowances exist for toothpaste no longer apply.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:06:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:04:44 PM
Wow, I didn't realize how intolerant we were to Transsexuals two years ago.  Even garbon. :(

I still don't really understand it but I'm willing to go with the treat others politely. :)
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:11:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:06:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:04:44 PM
Wow, I didn't realize how intolerant we were to Transsexuals two years ago.  Even garbon. :(

I still don't really understand it but I'm willing to go with the treat others politely. :)

Failure to understand his pain.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Barrister on November 09, 2015, 02:27:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:06:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:04:44 PM
Wow, I didn't realize how intolerant we were to Transsexuals two years ago.  Even garbon. :(

I still don't really understand it but I'm willing to go with the treat others politely. :)

Yeah, I'm more on the Raz side of things when it comes to transgendered people, but the over-riding thing is to treat people with respect, decency and politeness.  :)
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:39:46 PM
I'm always polite.  Politeness costs nothing.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on November 09, 2015, 02:49:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:39:46 PM
I'm always polite.  Politeness costs nothing.
:huh: I was under impression that you need a gun to be polite.  Guns cost money.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:39:46 PM
I'm always polite.  Politeness costs nothing.

False. It costs a hell of a lot when dealing with people who are insulting you.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: LaCroix on November 09, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
why are prison officials forcing a (especially well known) prisoner to cut her hair? if it's a disciplinary method the prison employs against other women, and manning has been an ass, then OK. otherwise.. seems like a legit concern.

(edit) unless federal prisons aren't required to treat transsexuals any differently than their birth gender. then it's more about changing laws than anything this prison did. that's actually probably the case.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:39:46 PM
I'm always polite.  Politeness costs nothing.

False. It costs a hell of a lot when dealing with people who are insulting you.

In what?  Seashells?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Brain on November 09, 2015, 04:25:16 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on November 09, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
why are prison officials forcing a (especially well known) prisoner to cut her hair? if it's a disciplinary method the prison employs against other women, and manning has been an ass, then OK. otherwise.. seems like a legit concern.

(edit) unless federal prisons aren't required to treat transsexuals any differently than their birth gender. then it's more about changing laws than anything this prison did. that's actually probably the case.

Did s/he hook up with the Boche?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2015, 04:30:16 PM
QuoteManning, who began receiving hormone therapy at taxpayer expense earlier this year

:blink:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Brain on November 09, 2015, 04:34:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2015, 04:30:16 PM
QuoteManning, who began receiving hormone therapy at taxpayer expense earlier this year

:blink:

It's an illness. Surely prisoners get medical treatment?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 04:37:57 PM
Can't argue with that.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Barrister on November 09, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2015, 04:30:16 PM
QuoteManning, who began receiving hormone therapy at taxpayer expense earlier this year

:blink:

Surely this isn't the first you're heard about this.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2015, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 09, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
Surely this isn't the first you're heard about this.

T'is.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Barrister on November 09, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2015, 04:52:09 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 09, 2015, 04:51:23 PM
Surely this isn't the first you're heard about this.

T'is.

That's a mighty big rock you've been living under Mr. Yi.

Let me tell you about Trump's Presidential run...
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 09, 2015, 04:55:48 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 09, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
That's a mighty big rock you've been living under Mr. Yi.

Let me tell you about Trump's Presidential run...

Don't get smart with me wig boy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on November 09, 2015, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 09, 2015, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 09, 2015, 02:39:46 PM
I'm always polite.  Politeness costs nothing.

False. It costs a hell of a lot when dealing with people who are insulting you.

In what?  Seashells?

Soul gems.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: citizen k on January 17, 2017, 04:28:27 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html?_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html?_r=0)

Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Barrister on January 17, 2017, 04:32:39 PM
:hmm:

Not sure what I think of this.

At least he's not pardoning Snowden.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: MadImmortalMan on January 17, 2017, 04:41:08 PM
Are they considering Assange's extradition offer?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
Bad move Barry. :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Liep on January 17, 2017, 04:57:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
Bad move Barry. :thumbsdown:

I think he's just trolling at this point.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Phillip V on January 17, 2017, 05:17:17 PM
Bullshit.  For the traitorous crime and worldwide consequences, Manning should be in prison for more than just 7 years.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: grumbler on January 17, 2017, 05:27:11 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on January 17, 2017, 05:17:17 PM
Bullshit.  For the traitorous crime and worldwide consequences, Manning should be in prison for more than just 7 years.
True, but also for less than 35.  I don't think the president has the power to re-sentence convicted felons, so it was commutation or bust, as far as I can tell.  The interests of justice are better-served by commutation, I think.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on January 17, 2017, 05:55:11 PM
Not a fan of this decision.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: KRonn on January 17, 2017, 07:07:34 PM
Bad idea especially at this time to commute Manning's sentence. With all the talk of intel issues, the massive hacking of US government agencies by China, Russia and others, wikilleaks over the years and especially recently all the angst over the hacking of Podesta and the DNC, this flies in the face of being serious on these issues. I don't understand why this commutation was done. It may even give impetus for others to commit such crimes as they may feel they'll get cover in some circles either for exposing govt secrets or get some leniency for political reasons.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on January 17, 2017, 07:16:19 PM
Like many commutations or pardons, this is probably the right decision on a human level, but bad politics.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 17, 2017, 07:22:29 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 17, 2017, 07:16:19 PM
Like many commutations or pardons, this is probably the right decision on a human level, but bad politics.

It doesn't look good--like g said, maybe not long enough, but certainly not 35 years' worth, either--and completely feeds into the "Lock Her Up" paranoia from Der Furor's people, but if it lands Assange, it's a bargain.

Meanwhile, as everybody freaks out over Manning, the Support Our Troops crowd hasn't said anything about--

QuoteObama Pardons James Cartwright, General Who Lied to F.B.I. in Leak Case
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
JAN. 17, 2017

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Tuesday pardoned James E. Cartwright, a retired Marine Corps general and former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I. about his discussions with reporters about Iran's nuclear program, saving him from a possible prison sentence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-pardons-james-cartwright-general-who-lied-to-fbi-in-leak-case.html
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Neil on January 17, 2017, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 17, 2017, 04:32:39 PM
:hmm:

Not sure what I think of this.

At least he's not pardoning Snowden.
Honestly, I'd respect the decision to pardon Snowden more than I did commuting Manning's sentence.  Snowden at least did what he did out of some kind of principle, even if it was futile and old-fashioned.  Manning did what he did out of some kind of homo shit-fit.  They should have hanged him.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on January 17, 2017, 11:38:11 PM
I wonder if Obama did this partly to call Assange's bluff.  Now three things can happen:  Assange gets caught bluffing, Assange gets extradited and convicted, or Assange gets extradited but then cut loose by Trump.  In all cases the bad guys lose freedom or credibility.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2017, 11:39:24 PM
I missed the stuff about Ass Hinge's offer.  Someone fill me in?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: DGuller on January 18, 2017, 12:22:02 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 17, 2017, 11:39:24 PM
I missed the stuff about Ass Hinge's offer.  Someone fill me in?
Wikileaks tweeted that Assange will allow himself to be extradited to US if Manning's sentence were commuted.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 02:40:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2017, 11:14:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 17, 2017, 04:32:39 PM
:hmm:

Not sure what I think of this.

At least he's not pardoning Snowden.
Honestly, I'd respect the decision to pardon Snowden more than I did commuting Manning's sentence.  Snowden at least did what he did out of some kind of principle, even if it was futile and old-fashioned.  Manning did what he did out of some kind of homo shit-fit.  They should have hanged him.

What principle was it exactly that demanded that he provide China and Russia with a list of computers the NSA had successfully penetrated?
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: garbon on January 18, 2017, 04:37:36 AM
Oddly enough, being homosexual is about being a man having sex with a man and not about becoming a woman.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 07:30:48 AM
Quote from: Neil on January 17, 2017, 11:14:42 PM
Honestly, I'd respect the decision to pardon Snowden more than I did commuting Manning's sentence.  Snowden at least did what he did out of some kind of principle, even if it was futile and old-fashioned.  Manning did what he did out of some kind of homo shit-fit.  They should have hanged him.

errr. no.  Snowden stole thousands of documents and released a few hundred, turning the rest over to Russia, not Wikileaks.  Manning was a fucked-up do-gooder, Snowden an enemy spy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 18, 2017, 07:55:26 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 07:30:48 AM
Manning was a fucked-up do-gooder, Snowden an enemy spy.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: viper37 on January 18, 2017, 09:19:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 18, 2017, 04:37:36 AM
Oddly enough, being homosexual is about being a man having sex with a man and not about becoming a woman.
way too complicated for us str8 folks.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:32:45 AM
It does seem like Manning was manipulated by Assange, who took advantage of a fragile personality, while Snowden was more self-directed.  Whether or how that matters for commutation is in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: LaCroix on January 18, 2017, 11:35:51 AM
when obama pardons manning, it's an act of good will. but when trump pardons putin, it's a conspiracy

Sad!
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 18, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 11:32:45 AM
It does seem like Manning was manipulated by Assange, who took advantage of a fragile personality, while Snowden was more self-directed.  Whether or how that matters for commutation is in the eye of the beholder.

Can you elaborate (or link)?  First I've heard of Manning being manipulated.  I thought Manning just went to Wikileaks and dumped stuff there, no prior contact.
Title: Re: Bradley Manning acquitted of aiding enemy but convicted on other charges
Post by: The Minsky Moment on January 18, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
According to the prosecutors, Manning made contact with Assange in 2009, and Assange then guided her to key docs.  This was disputed by the defense but supposedly there were chat logs backing it up.