[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Also, remember: English Canadians consider we all drive like crazy maniacs because 20km/h above the speed limit is insane driving (also near verbatim)

I mean, I don't doubt that someone has said that to you and that that person is Anglophone... but it is completely incorrect to project that on to English Canadians as a whole. Quebec is not the only place in Canada where people drive 20 km/h above the limit, that's for sure.

In my experience everyone thinks their own local drivers are idiots who don't know how to drive, but that people in other areas are complete maniacs and even bigger idiots. It's universal and has nothing to do with culture or language.

If you read a couple of posts up I have already told Zoupa that the only consolation he has is that the drivers in Vancouver are much worse.   

Last week at Cyprus (a local ski hill for the rest of you) the car I was following down the hill was going 30 Kmh - with bare roads.  The fact there was snow all around us seemed to be freaking him out.  Odd for someone who just spent the day skiing.  But that is Vancouver.

[Jacob]

Some elements of the Conservative Party are doubling down on "vax mandates = oppression" and trying to tie it to the Liberals.

Good politics, because it ties the fringe right closer at a low cost, because there IS some popular resentment against pandemic restrictions, because maybe it'll cause folks to associate supply chain hiccups with he Liberals, and because the rest of us will have forgotten by the next election?

Or bad politics because protesting something like this - where even if the truckers don't need vaccinations to enter Canada, they'll still need them to enter the US - creates a stronger brand association with unhinged wackos which will hamper the efforts to entice swing voters?

Some Conservative MPs have offered their support to the anti-mandate movement. Garnett Genuis, a Conservative MP from Alberta, called the policy a "vaccine vendetta."

At least one Conservative MP — Martin Shields, who represents the Alberta riding of Bow River in the House of Commons — said he would be on hand in Ottawa to meet the convoy when it arrives. He said there should be "exceptions" to the mandate, including for essential workers who move goods across the Canada-U.S. border.

Former Conservative leader Andrew Scheer added his voice to the chorus of criticism, calling the prime minister the "biggest threat to freedom in Canada."

"Thank you Truckers! Trudeau is attacking personal liberty and threatening everyone's ability to get groceries because of his overreach on vaccine mandates," he said in a social media post.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/vaccine-mandate-double-down-convoy-1.6326821

[Valmy]

You know I can certainly see that with all that has happened having a discussion about how far we should go with public health policies limiting personal freedoms in the future might not be a bad idea. I mean we haven't had this kind of thing in many decades so maybe some rethinking on that balance might be in order. But issues of nuance seem a bit challenging to have these days.

I mean surely they are not saying that there should be no public health mandates at all ever or human rights are over? We have had much more draconian public health mandates before and human rights somehow persevered. And are they really saying if Trudeau just let an infectious disease run rampant through the country they would be 100% supporting him and singing his praises as a great forward thinking leader committed to liberty? Surely they would be attacking him as basically a murderer. It makes it hard to think they are really serious about it.

But hey maybe I am wrong and they really would be fine just letting infectious disease run rampant and unchecked in the name of ideology. That policy seems much more likely to lead to an authoritarian turn where people would just end up thinking individual freedom and human rights had become discredited. It kind of bugs me how stupid, and rather obviously dishonest, this conversation seems to be.

[crazy canuck]

There was a good opinion piece in the Globe about this a week or so ago titled, O'Toole never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.  The upshot was that there are a great many things to criticize the Liberals about these days and the Conservatives picked a policy that the vast majority of Canadians support...

The Conservatives are doing a good job at eroding whatever non radically right wing support they might still have.

[viper37]

Or bad politics because protesting something like this - where even if the truckers don't need vaccinations to enter Canada, they'll still need them to enter the US - creates a stronger brand association with unhinged wackos which will hamper the efforst to entice swing voters?

Bad politics, because it's only a short time gain, and it's a fringe vote they are:
a) likely to get (hard right wingers)
b) unlikely to ever get (antivax fringe left)

Someone who's all about natural medicines vs big evil pharma and believes meditation is the solution to everything won't vote Conservative, ever.  Even if you give them their support for their stupid cause now, they'll still hate you in the long run.

Former Conservative leader Andrew Scheer added his voice to the chorus of criticism, calling the prime minister the "biggest threat to freedom in Canada."

This kind of talk seems big in the National Post, lately.  Contrast that to early 2020, when they said "dissent is our worst ennemy in times of pandemic" or something like that (Jonathan Kay, I think...).

[viper37]

I mean surely they are not saying that there should be no public health mandates at all ever or human rights are over?

That is pretty much what they say.

Me: "People with chronic diseases and fragile health can be vulnerable to covid, we have to pay attention to them".
My two best friends: "They can all die, I don't care".

Even after pointing that included me and half my family, one never relented.  The other got spooked after the first wave hit us in our city.  Both his kids (heirs to the familial farm as it looks) are diabetics...

We have had much more draconian public health mandates before and human rights somehow persevered. And are they really saying if Trudeau just let an infectious disease run rampant through the country they would be 100% supporting him and singing his praises as a great forward thinking leader committed to liberty? Surely they would be attacking him as basically a murderer. It makes it hard to think they are really serious about it.

It also contagious.  A radio host I listen to regularly, as of two weeks ago, didn't even want to talk about it, calling most of these people morons.  Now he calls for everything to reopen right now, says the vaccine mandate is the sillyest thing the govt ever did and now that the govt has power to shut us down (it always had and it used it in the past) they will do so at any time to pass whatever agenda they want (which is pretty much what a majority government does since 1840 without the need for stay-at-home or curfew orders...).

It kind of bugs me how stupid, and rather obviously dishonest, this conversation seems to be.

I'm getting tired myself of this bullshit.  I argue on Facebook, but whenever I know someone is unvaccinated, I simply refuse to meet them in person now.

[viper37]

And btw, where is BB?  He does not seem around much since earlier in the month?

[Josephus]

And btw, where is BB?  He does not seem around much since earlier in the month?

I'm pretty sure I saw him pass my house just now. He's part of the trucker convoy. 

[Jacob]

And btw, where is BB?  He does not seem around much since earlier in the month?

According to HVC, Berkut stalked him so BB quit. I didn't see it myself, so I don't know what actually happened.

[Oexmelin]

[Josephus]

And btw, where is BB?  He does not seem around much since earlier in the month?

According to HVC, Berkut stalked him so BB quit. I didn't see it myself, so I don't know what actually happened.

Stalked him how?

[crazy canuck]

I guess we will see in the next little while just how far down the Trumpist hole the Canadian right has gone.   Hopefully the Conservative MPs who have been cheering on the extremists within the so called Truckers protest will pull back and not go all in.

[Jacob]

It seems unlikely to me that supporting anti-vax protests will help the Conservatives win swing voters in the critical sub-urban ridings that typically determine Canadian elections.

[HVC]

And btw, where is BB?  He does not seem around much since earlier in the month?

According to HVC, Berkut stalked him so BB quit. I didn't see it myself, so I don't know what actually happened.

Stalked him how?

The media bias thing.  Everywhere BB posted berkut would bring it up and pester him. Might not have been that, just a timing coincidence.

[HVC]

The trucker thing is weird. Doesn't seem to be that many drivers, and even their association is against them.