Crusader Kings III

[Zanza]

It's the second mainly map based DLC. Royal Court was not map-based at all, Tours & Tournaments was partially map-based and well received, this is map-based and well received. Hope that gives Paradox a hint what players want.

[Tamas]

Is there a mod or something that just deactivates the royal court nonsense altogether?

[Zanza]

Is there a mod or something that just deactivates the royal court nonsense altogether?

The launcher lets you select active DLCs...?

[Tamas]

Is there a mod or something that just deactivates the royal court nonsense altogether?

The launcher lets you select active DLCs...?

I thought its a vanilla thing, I am going to give it a try.

[Tamas]

I was trying to read up on the DLC and I came across this part of a long post which I liked because it touched upon my major gripe with the game (btw diseases and even legacy sound like good additions):

If a game doesn't have a defined narrative, then, in my opinion, any in-character writing in the game basically doesn't matter. It's show, don't tell, right? A character isn't what the writer says they are, they're what they do. And what happens in events is only what the writer says. But what matters to me, the player, is what I can do, what I can affect, and almost all of that happens outside of the scope of events. The story of the game is the paratext of the player imagining how the game mechanics came together, not what the string of events said.

I don't care if my character went to a bathhouse and got his bratwurst roasted. For all intents and purposes, that's an interlude from the actual story, which is what's happening on the map, and through schemes and wars and character interactions. And I don't even hate that bathhouse event like some people do, I actually think it's fine. I just mean that nothing in that event matters except that I have a new rival, and the problem with that is that the game is only trying to manufacture that rivalry through flavour text, which, again, is meaningless to me. The only important information in that event is the tooltips, because everything else is in jarring contrast with the story I'm playing right now, which is a redemption story about how I lazily refused to fight in my liege's war because I thought it didn't affect me, resulting in my losing all but one far-off county, and how I'm going to make it right.

To go back to the idea of Community Chest and Chance cards from Monopoly, those are basically what diseases remind me of. The game doesn't give me options about how to resolve the issue, it punches me in the face, and then I have the entirety of the game's mechanics at my disposal to deal with the new problem. I think that's great and fundamental to emergent stories. Not to pick on the bathhouse event (which again, I think is fine), but if you're going to give me a rivalry with a character, I think that's a great idea for an event, but tie it into the mechanics of the game, don't justify it with flavour text. Maybe I was invited to the King's feast, while another character wasn't, so rivalry. I have more gold than a greedy character, so rivalry. I beat him in a war, rivalry. I broke a betrothal with him, rivalry.

[Syt]

Counter point: while yes, in terms of events, in terms of game play it's the modifiers/outcome that counts. However, I wouldn't consider them divorced from the game mechanics because many (most?) will be affected by game mechanics - which characters can participate, what options are available (and what the chances of success for various options are or if there's stress penalties if you try to "act against character"). Not to mention that there's many events that are more likely/less likely to trigger based on game situation/character stats and traits.

And I personally like a degree of random chance in events and stories. Life is unpredictable, and even during "serious" periods silly and stupid things happen. I don't want to go back to Glitterhoof or bears masquerading as courtiers, but having these random elements thrown in adds some spice. YMMV.

[Josephus]

My only issue is that there are so many "flavour" events that keep coming up, it gets annoying. I might be trying to assassinate my liege, but meanwhile I need to deal with some courtier laughing at my dick, or deal with some vassal in my royal court arguing over someone else farting too much or my new born just grew his first tooth, which for some reason stresses me out.

[Tamas]

My only issue is that there are so many "flavour" events that keep coming up, it gets annoying. I might be trying to assassinate my liege, but meanwhile I need to deal with some courtier laughing at my dick, or deal with some vassal in my royal court arguing over someone else farting too much or my new born just grew his first tooth, which for some reason stresses me out.

Yeah exactly.

EDIT: my turning point moment (when this sank in, although wasn't the last time I played the game) was when this dark ages mod came out with new content for Persia and that region (before the Persia DLC). I wanted to experience it. But I couldn't from the barrage of the completely out of context detached-from-my-actions events that kept popping up.

I guess real life is similar where mundane chores keep popping up preventing me from gaming, but when I do game I'd like to focus on what interests me. Long-winded events aimed a teenage humour are not really such things.

I have no doubt I'll still play the game every once in a while since there's nothing like it, and until Field of Glory Kingdoms come out there won't be a better medieval strategy game around, but it's just such a shame to burry a collection of nice systems under these juvenile events.

[Syt]

I ... don't see the issue. Actually I love nothing more than mods that add MORE events (VIET!). Different folks, different strokes and all that.

Still trying to understand - are such events as much an issue for you in CK2? Or EU4?

[Tamas]

Still trying to understand - are such events as much an issue for you in CK2? Or EU4?

Events are far more rare in EU4 and their focus is more linked to what you are concerned with when playing. Also the flavour text is not the length of a small essay. In CK2 I can't remember if we had this many. If we did surely they blended into the core game better, because I did not notice.

Basically, in those other games, the game systems ensured that stuff would happen and events supplemented them. In CK3 -althoug clearly stuff like diseases will improve on this- it feels that despite having all the tools to maintain that philosophy, they intend events to trigger things that nudge gameplay along. Which is ok to some degree, but then the events need to be better integrated, not be these juveniles meme-baits most of the time.

[Syt]

Yes, but I also feel it's a bit of a clash between serious history and reasonable historical flavor. For me these "silly" events are well on the level of some of the stories told in medieval literature and legends.

Medieval society was not above fart jokes and bawdy humor, see e.g. https://reviews.history.ac.uk/review/733 or https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2023/06/04/medieval-jokes-heege-manuscript/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_the_Farter

So people making dick jokes or having their court collapse into a cesspit seem well in line with meideval society for me.

EDIT: I grant that events tend to get repetitive, but that's really hard to overcome in a game that can last 600 years.

[Tamas]

Yes, but I also feel it's a bit of a clash between serious history and reasonable historical flavor. For me these "silly" events are well on the level of some of the stories told in medieval literature and legends.

Medieval society was not above fart jokes and bawdy humor, see e.g. https://reviews.history.ac.uk/review/733 or https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2023/06/04/medieval-jokes-heege-manuscript/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_the_Farter

So people making dick jokes or having their court collapse into a cesspit seem well in line with meideval society for me.

EDIT: I grant that events tend to get repetitive, but that's really hard to overcome in a game that can last 600 years.

That's fine but humour made in a format that 14 years olds want to Tweet them is not what I am looking for in a historical strategy game even if historically this humour was a thing in the period. It's a personal taste thing. I lament the loss of the potential of what I am looking for in the game and likely will never fully get, but clearly there's a market for the game's approach so I don't pretend my criticism applies objectively.

[garbon]

Ck3 also had some wildness around incest and your character getting stressed if they resisted "the temptation".

In general, and one of many reasons I don't play it much, the events are so incredibly puerile in CK3 that I find them off putting. CK2 had them too but many could be locked away by game rule and they also didn't feel like the bulk of the events.

[Josephus]

As a for instance:

Playing a game right now. Bit worried about some plague coming into my realm but for now, my daughter just took her first steps. I have three choices, all of which kinda suck.

1. "A giant step for a child. A small step for a ruler." This stresses me out because I'm ambitious. Somehow my daughter walking unnerves me.

2. "What else can she do?" A normal thing for a proud papa to ask, an in fact, reduces my stress also becaus I am ambitious. This would be good except my three year old daughter gets stressed out. (I guess the best option for me.

3. "i don't have time for this." Really the most historic option, but my daughter may hold a grudge against me, and there's a 20 per cent chance shel'll form a rivalry with me. Sheesh, kiddo, get over it.

I mean, it's all flavour, and it's fine...but there's so much of this. It gets repetitive very quickly.

[garbon]

Paradox tried to pull that most unique legends are eurocentric in the dlc as that's the only sources they had access to. Meowtf?