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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 05:53:06 PM

Title: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 05:53:06 PM
Fall hasn't fallen for me until College Football kicks off, and this year was no different.

My Michigan Wolverines came out and kicked some ass, but it was only against Western Michigan, so I'm going to hold my applause.

Unfortunately, Michigan's marquee OOC game is against Washington next week, and, well... the ranked Huskies lost to a BCS team, which makes next week's game lose-lose for the Wolverines.

Surprise stat of the day for me was 109,601 - the attendance at Michigan Stadium.  If you've lived through the online talk about this year's team, you'd have thought that the 42-year 100k+ attendance record was doomed, but the least inviting game of the year still saw more people show up than the stadium can technically hold.

How did your team do?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 05, 2021, 06:02:42 PM
10-3 over Clemson and I missed it. Oh well.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 06:26:27 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 05, 2021, 06:02:42 PM
10-3 over Clemson and I missed it. Oh well.

Revenge game in the playoffs?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on September 05, 2021, 06:39:04 PM
Wyoming totally trashed a BCS Montana State, taking them to the woodpile for an old fashioned whooping...

Actually, Wyoming had to have a last ditch drive to win (a TD catch with 40+ seconds left) 19-16 and they looked really mediocre, but those 19 points are like a blowout to a Wyo fan.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 07:29:01 PM
A ridiculously hard catch by Michigan's Ronnie Bell is negated by a phantom call. https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/32145397 (https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/32145397)

I don't think I've ever seen a receiver snag a ball one-handed like that.

To add insult to (literal) injury, Bell later left the game on a stretcher.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 07:29:46 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 05, 2021, 06:39:04 PM
Wyoming totally trashed a BCS Montana State, taking them to the woodpile for an old fashioned whooping...

Actually, Wyoming had to have a last ditch drive to win (a TD catch with 40+ seconds left) 19-16 and they looked really mediocre, but those 19 points are like a blowout to a Wyo fan.

A +3 win is always a blowout compared to a -1 loss.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 05, 2021, 10:04:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 05, 2021, 07:29:01 PM
A ridiculously hard catch by Michigan's Ronnie Bell is negated by a phantom call. https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/32145397 (https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/32145397)

I don't think I've ever seen a receiver snag a ball one-handed like that.

To add insult to (literal) injury, Bell later left the game on a stretcher.


That was an amazing catch.

Nothing phantom about the call though. He extended and pushed off the defender, twice.

Not a great call, because the defender was not all that clean either, but certainly not phantom. It's plain as day.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 05, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Arizona lost in a respectable manner to BYU, keeping our college football leading losing streak alive.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 06, 2021, 07:51:48 PM
Exiting Pedo St. Wisconsin game.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on September 07, 2021, 12:22:26 PM
Quote from: PDH on September 05, 2021, 06:39:04 PM
Wyoming totally trashed a BCS Montana State, taking them to the woodpile for an old fashioned whooping...

Actually, Wyoming had to have a last ditch drive to win (a TD catch with 40+ seconds left) 19-16 and they looked really mediocre, but those 19 points are like a blowout to a Wyo fan.

Better than how UDub did against the other Montana school.

Next weekend Texas goes to Fayettenam to do its dangerous tour of duty against the Pigs and Swine of Arkansas.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 07, 2021, 09:54:47 PM
Dan Dierdorf is retiring at the end of the season from his job broadcasting Michigan games on the radio/internet.

I'll miss him.  Even though the audio wasn't perfectly synched to the TV broadcast (they were about a second ahead of the video), he and Jim Brandstatter were always worth using as the audio for the games.  I hate the thought of going back to the clown the Big10 Network uses.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 09, 2021, 03:05:50 PM
Some of us can probably remember the "Figthing Irish" cups of years ago, but this takes the cake for spelling fuckups:
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/09/04/PIND/260edde3-2eb4-45f2-af71-2926a728b1bc-E-doai1WQAkYF9H.jpeg?width=300&height=599&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Yes, Indiana University misspelled "Indiana" on their team jerseys.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Barrister on September 09, 2021, 03:12:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 09, 2021, 03:05:50 PM
Some of us can probably remember the "Figthing Irish" cups of years ago, but this takes the cake for spelling fuckups:
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/09/04/PIND/260edde3-2eb4-45f2-af71-2926a728b1bc-E-doai1WQAkYF9H.jpeg?width=300&height=599&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Yes, Indiana University misspelled "Indiana" on their team jerseys.

Because there is nobody I love to nit-pick more than you Grumbles, it was only one jersey on one player, not plural "jerseys".  :contract:

But still - how the fuck does that happen?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 09, 2021, 03:54:24 PM
How did nobody fucking NOTICE????
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 09, 2021, 04:19:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on September 09, 2021, 03:12:32 PM

Because there is nobody I love to nit-pick more than you Grumbles, it was only one jersey on one player, not plural "jerseys".  :contract:

But still - how the fuck does that happen?

Ah.  The IndiStar account had it as "Jerseys" in their first version. https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2021/09/04/indiana-football-jersey-misspelled-ahead-iowa-game-saturday-iu-hoosiers-indinia/5734470001/ (https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2021/09/04/indiana-football-jersey-misspelled-ahead-iowa-game-saturday-iu-hoosiers-indinia/5734470001/) (see the mouseover). 

At least you got the chance to nitpick.  :lol:  Hope you enjoyed it.  If not, there will be further opportunities.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 11, 2021, 03:06:53 PM
Wow, going and and beating OSU at home! The Pac-12 definitely needed that.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 11, 2021, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 11, 2021, 03:06:53 PM
Wow, going and and beating OSU at home! The Pac-12 definitely needed that.

So did the Big Ten.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on September 11, 2021, 06:54:32 PM
Wyoming is Wyoming.  They dominated 3 quarters and the Pokes were up 42-22 vs N. Illinois.  Then they had to have a last minute drive to win after falling behind 43-42...

Still, 2-0 is better than beating your dick with a ball-peen hammer.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 11, 2021, 11:43:13 PM
Arizona is Arizona.

It's going to kind of suck when they beat NAU next week to end The Streak. NAU?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 12, 2021, 01:54:53 AM
Haweyes ballin'.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 12, 2021, 06:37:33 AM
I was surprised that Michigan's win over Washington came through running up the middle.  The very things that worked for Montana failed for Michigan, and the reverse.  I'm not sure why Michigan's pass blocking suddenly turned to shit, but it didn't matter in this game.  31-10 is pretty sweet.  2-0 is sweeter.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 08:25:11 AM
Wyoming beat Ball State worse than Penn State did!  :yeah:

The Michigan-Northern Illinois game was boring, in a good way:  Michigan scored touchdowns on its first nine drives (only even reaching third down twice in those drives) and every player not injured got to play... except the punter.  NIU isn't very good, but they DID beat Ga Tech.

The surprise team of the year for me is Rutgers.  They are 3-0 after beating nondescript teams, which might make one say "so they haven't played anybody yet," but that's what people for years have said about the teams that played Rutgers, not about Rutgers.  Greg Schiano just might be as good a coach as his partisans have claimed.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 19, 2021, 08:57:27 AM
I am beginning to suspect that Arizona is not a very good football team.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 19, 2021, 08:57:27 AM
I am beginning to suspect that Arizona is not a very good football team.

I thought that Zona would turn the corner under RichRod, but that just didn't happen.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: ulmont on September 19, 2021, 09:10:21 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 08:25:11 AM
NIU isn't very good, but they DID beat Ga Tech.

Ga Tech also isn't very good, keeping Clemson close notwithstanding.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on September 19, 2021, 09:45:54 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 19, 2021, 08:57:27 AM
I am beginning to suspect that Arizona is not a very good football team.

I thought that Zona would turn the corner under RichRod, but that just didn't happen.

Fixing a team like Arizona is very simple, and at the same very, very hard to do.

I am in a couple Wildcats forums, and there is always talk about this offense, or that defense, or some scheme or the culture, or "will to win". I really like that one - you hear it every time the team loses a game you would not think they ought to lose. "WE NEED A TEAM THAT WANTS IT MORE!!!!". That was the big knock on the last coach. He just didn't want it enough, apparently.

It's all horseshit. Or rather, it is all worrying about step D when you already failed on step A.

A team like Arizona cannot compete, cannot win, cannot be a relevant part of the Pac-12 until it starts recruiting its "share" of talent. It never has, and hence it never will have more than transitory success. All the rest is bullshit if you are taking your 2 and 3 star recruits up against the other P12 teams 3 and 4 star recruits, much less the good teams 4 and 5 star recruits.

Arizona being a basketball school, the comparisons are always there. Lute Olson knew how to coach! Lute Olson knew how to get in the head of his opponents. Lute Olson's players loved him and would do anything for him! Sean Miller knows the game better! Blah blah blah. Lute Olson recruited Sean Elliot to come to Arizona. Sean Miller would never even deign to look at a 3 star recruit it was all 4 and 5 stars, elite talent. They were not out there hoping to find diamonds in the rough, they just recruited the actual diamonds everyone knew about.

Fisch seems like a great guy, and a good coach. He's done all the right things so far - reached out to the community, spends time at Arizona high schools, accessibly to the media, seems like he really values culture and doing things the right way. That is all great.

Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. Can he do that?


RichRod was not able to. Neither was Stoops, and neither was Sumlin.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on September 19, 2021, 12:49:20 PM
As the Grognard said, Wyoming actually played a full game.  Ball State, that powerhouse of the State of Ball was outgunned at War Memorial Stadium yesterday.  Probably seeing mountains was a shock to the players, and the clash of Brown and Gold in the Wyoming uniforms undoubtedly confused them more. 

In the end, Wyoming took it one down at at time, moving the ball with three yards and a cloud of dust to wear down the opposition over time as they matriculated the ball down the field.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 02:55:29 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 19, 2021, 09:45:54 AM
(snip)
A team like Arizona cannot compete, cannot win, cannot be a relevant part of the Pac-12 until it starts recruiting its "share" of talent. It never has, and hence it never will have more than transitory success. All the rest is bullshit if you are taking your 2 and 3 star recruits up against the other P12 teams 3 and 4 star recruits, much less the good teams 4 and 5 star recruits.

RichRod's claim to fame was his ability to coach up his 2 and 3 star West Virginia players and, by using an unorthodox offense, beat teams that had better players.  That's why i thought he might be able to take Arizona to the next level, at which point recruiting gets a lot easier.

Unfortunately, I think that, by the time RR got to Arizona, defense had figured out his pass-heavy option offense and 3-3-5 defense.  He wasn't a good enough recruiter or coach to recover from that.

Hope you enjoy Don Brown.  He's a great interview.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on September 25, 2021, 06:44:51 PM
Wyoming at UConn.  Wyoming was like a 4 TD favorite at one point, but we all know that's silly.  In fact, when I opened the ESPN Gamecast Wyoming was down 13-0.

Eventually, with 5 minutes left in the 4th, Wyoming was up 17-16, and got an interception.  Then the Pokes marched down to make it 24-16 with less than 3 minutes left.  Never willing to let a chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, W-Y-O let the Huskies march down the field, aided by 3 straight Pass Interference calls in 4th downs, and UConn scored a TD.  Wyoming did stop the 2 point conversion, and got the onsides kick to win, but to win by 2 over a team that lost to Holy Cross by 10...

Let's just say I'm glad I have been through this before (in fact, year after year).
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 09, 2021, 06:59:58 PM
Nice comeback victory by Iowa at home against Pedo St.  :)
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on October 17, 2021, 07:32:01 PM
Amusing exchange

Nebraska fan:  "Nebraska is the best 3-5 team in the country!"

Michigan fan:  "Yeah, but Nebraska is the only 3-5 team in the country!"

(Nebraska is one of four teams to have played 8 games already).
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on October 22, 2021, 10:27:31 PM
I didn't think it was possible to have a worse looking offensive line then Arizona.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on October 23, 2021, 09:05:32 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 22, 2021, 10:27:31 PM
I didn't think it was possible to have a worse looking offensive line then Arizona.

You haven't seen Northwestern's O-line, then.  Individually, they are fully up to mediocre (except their left guard, who is just bad), but they clearly have a scheme where they take turns making a bonehead decision that blows up whatever play is being run.  Their backs get all their yards by themselves when they run, and the QB gets hit every time he drops back (though, sometimes, gets the pass off before he is hit).  It's a minor miracle that they've only given up 12 sacks so far.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on October 23, 2021, 05:03:39 PM
Illinois (who is really, really bad) defeats Penn State (ranked #7 but also very bad) 20-18 in nine overtimes.  I don't know the game time, because apparently they don't report that on the sites I usually use.

Now watch Penn State go to Columbus and knock off OSU!  :lol:

What a season.  It's already had more ranked team loses than any other, and it's only half-over.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on October 25, 2021, 03:28:54 PM
Wyoming began the season 4-0, and that very un-Wyo Football style start would take a lot of work to overcome.  Luckily, the boys in Laramie have  the drive and the pluck to overcome the best season start in 25 years.  UWyo has now lost 3 straight games, the most recent a 14-3 loss to the previous worst team in the division.

Basically, outside of a 2 minute drill vs Air Force, Wyoming has been unable to move the ball on offense for 3 weeks in a row.  I know this feeling, it is called being a "Wyoming Fan."

Next year will be better!
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on October 25, 2021, 03:47:53 PM
I dont know if Arizona will ever get better. They keep figuring out new ways to lose in the same way.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on October 25, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
They should have never left the WAC.  They could at least beat Wyoming every year.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 16, 2021, 08:25:28 AM
Now THIS is funny!  Even if you hate the SEC, you'll like this.

Sorry, Texas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QxhxWTUkY&t=248s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QxhxWTUkY&t=248s)
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: ulmont on November 16, 2021, 10:38:20 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 16, 2021, 08:25:28 AM
Now THIS is funny!  Even if you hate the SEC, you'll like this.

Sorry, Texas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QxhxWTUkY&t=248s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-QxhxWTUkY&t=248s)

Ok, that was hilarious.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 16, 2021, 11:46:54 PM
We don't seem to have an NFL thread, so I just want to chime in and gloat that Mac Jones should obviously have been the first QB pick in the draft.  :licklips:
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on November 19, 2021, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 02:55:29 PM
Hope you enjoy Don Brown.  He's a great interview.

Arizona is terrible of course, but the defense has already had a pretty incredible turnaround. They have not been higher then 8th in the Pac-12 in over a decade, and this year they are fifth.

So I rather like the day, myself. That's a pretty impressive change with basically no upgrade in talent.

We might not have him for long though - apparently he is a finalist for the UMass head coaching job.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 19, 2021, 09:14:57 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 19, 2021, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 19, 2021, 02:55:29 PM
Hope you enjoy Don Brown.  He's a great interview.

Arizona is terrible of course, but the defense has already had a pretty incredible turnaround. They have not been higher then 8th in the Pac-12 in over a decade, and this year they are fifth.

So I rather like the day, myself. That's a pretty impressive change with basically no upgrade in talent.

We might not have him for long though - apparently he is a finalist for the UMass head coaching job.

It's kinda sad that Don Brown's retirement job (if he takes it) will be in a in the same job he first held 18 years earlier.  He did wonderful things in the meantime, but never adapted to offenses that figured out his defense.  I'd love to sit down withy him over a beer, which I can't say about a lot of the top college football coaches (including any of the current Big Ten coaches and assistant coaches).
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Savonarola on November 27, 2021, 03:35:32 PM
Congratulations, Grumbler, that was a beautiful win on an ugly day.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 27, 2021, 03:49:39 PM
Stil finding it hard to process the fact that WE WON THE FUCKING GAME!

I had hopes for this game, but didn't expect them to be met.  In particular, I didn't think they'd be met by Michigan just being brutally efficient on offense.  If you'd just have given the stats of Team A 9.5 YPA, 7.1 YPR, I'd have been sure that Team A was OSU.  Not today. Not today.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 27, 2021, 11:30:01 PM
Very exciting comeback by the Iowa against Nebraska.  Blocked punt and fumble recovery. 

As they say Nebraska is the best 3-8 team in the country.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 28, 2021, 08:22:12 AM
Nebraska does that to everyone.  They are 1-8 in the conference but their net score in conference games is +2 (lost 8 by a total of 47 points, won 1 by 49).

Iowa is the only ranked Big Ten team Michigan has not played yet.  Great matchup in the CCG.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on November 28, 2021, 08:26:47 AM
Arizona is probably not the best 1-11 team in the country.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on November 28, 2021, 10:37:02 AM
Wyoming went 6-6, a very Wyoming season:  started 4-0, lost the next 4 (and somehow forgot how to score at all...), then split the last 2 which included wins vs rivals (Colorado State, the worst university in the history of colleges ever) and against the conference leader.

6 wins is far better than the 1-11 days of the early 2000s (Sorry, Berk), but this was going to be a "year" with maybe 9 or 10 wins...well, NEXT YEAR!
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 28, 2021, 11:05:39 AM
A funny story:  Michigan defensive end David Ojabo was born in Nigeria, grew up in Aberdeen Scotland, and only started playing American football when he got a scholarship for his junior and senior years of High School at Blair Academy in New Jersey. His parents came to the US to see him play in The Game at the Big House.  That was the first American football game they'd ever seen, and Ojabo says that they now think that that is what all American Football games are like.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on November 28, 2021, 04:14:42 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 28, 2021, 11:05:39 AM
A funny story:  Michigan defensive end David Ojabo was born in Nigeria, grew up in Aberdeen Scotland, and only started playing American football when he got a scholarship for his junior and senior years of High School at Blair Academy in New Jersey. His parents came to the US to see him play in The Game at the Big House.  That was the first American football game they'd ever seen, and Ojabo says that they now think that that is what all American Football games are like.

Good story.  I also like the one about the kid for Central Michigan who came the to US as an exchange student for one year from Austria where he had played American Football - that small school of 400 kids made a run into the playoffs and he caught the attention of college recruiters.  He played as a tight end/wide receiver and got college scholarships, and has now transitioned to a all-league left tackle.  Of course, he is a very athletic 6'7" kid who kept that after adding 60 lbs to move to the line - that is just a cool thing.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 28, 2021, 08:09:49 PM
Quote from: PDH on November 28, 2021, 04:14:42 PM
Good story.  I also like the one about the kid for Central Michigan who came the to US as an exchange student for one year from Austria where he had played American Football - that small school of 400 kids made a run into the playoffs and he caught the attention of college recruiters.  He played as a tight end/wide receiver and got college scholarships, and has now transitioned to a all-league left tackle.  Of course, he is a very athletic 6'7" kid who kept that after adding 60 lbs to move to the line - that is just a cool thing.

You gotta love those kinds of stories.  In the Rutgers game last year, Ojabo started screaming at the Rutgers QB for spiking the ball right at Ojabos feet.  He'd never even known that a team could spike the ball, and thought the QB was disrespecting him.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 28, 2021, 08:16:16 PM
I remember a while back I commented on all the African surnames in college and pro ball and people were like what are you talking about Yi.  They're everywhere.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on November 28, 2021, 09:04:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 28, 2021, 08:16:16 PM
I remember a while back I commented on all the African surnames in college and pro ball and people were like what are you talking about Yi.  They're everywhere.
What are you talking about, Yi?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 28, 2021, 10:37:44 PM
That dude named Ojabo.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on November 29, 2021, 08:47:24 AM
Still basking in the glow...

The Game 2021 had the highest TV rating of any Fox college football game ever.

Aiden Hutcheson's 15 QB hurries is the most ever recorded by Pro Football Focus (which has rated every player in every Division 1 game since 2004).  He also had three rushing TFLs.  Give the man his Heisman.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 08:17:39 PM
Hutch for Heisman
(https://twitter.com/i/status/1464773318729474061)

https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1464773318729474061 (https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1464773318729474061)

#75 is OSU's 5-star left tackle.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 02, 2021, 09:54:56 AM
Someone needs to work on their footwork.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on December 02, 2021, 10:29:19 AM
If you add up UWyo's line you get close to 5 stars.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 04, 2021, 01:13:22 PM
Another great Hutch moment that I hadn't been aware of:  When Hutch (#97) broke the Michigan single-season sack record in the 2021 Ohio State game, the holder was his father, Chris Hutcheson (#97), who had set it in the 1992 Ohio State game.

I'm a sucker for father-son stories.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: ulmont on December 04, 2021, 08:02:41 PM
LOL UGA.  That is all.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 06, 2021, 04:34:19 AM
Have to agree with this guy, dangerous precedent.

https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1467567485549436931
QuoteNever been a "rules are rules!" dweeb but something about bending rules that are put in place to protect players doesn't sit right with me.

Now Ima be a "this sets a dangerous precedent!" dork too bc if QBs add this to their bag,QBs gonna be getting concussed or worse when defenders launch into em when theyre legit sliding bc they arent "falling" for the fake. Also gives dirty defenders an out to get a cheap shot in

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1467303599734730753
Quote from: PFFKenny Pickett hit the fake-slide

VIDEO
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 06, 2021, 08:25:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 06, 2021, 04:34:19 AM
Have to agree with this guy, dangerous precedent.

https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1467567485549436931


Nothing outrageous here.  It's not like he committed to a slide and then came out of it.  It was more a stutter-step.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2021, 08:45:15 AM
Quote from: ulmont on December 04, 2021, 08:02:41 PM
LOL UGA.  That is all.

Still BCS bound.  :sleep:
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 06, 2021, 11:57:47 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 06, 2021, 08:45:15 AM
Quote from: ulmont on December 04, 2021, 08:02:41 PM
LOL UGA.  That is all.

Still BCS bound.  :sleep:

Welcome to 2014. Eddie. :P
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 06, 2021, 12:16:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 06, 2021, 08:25:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 06, 2021, 04:34:19 AM
Have to agree with this guy, dangerous precedent.

https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1467567485549436931


Nothing outrageous here.  It's not like he committed to a slide and then came out of it.  It was more a stutter-step.

He faked starting a slide. He even *said* he faked starting a slide, and three defenders held up.

It was a rather subtle fake, and amazingly well executed. Hell, I would not have bet you *could* fake starting a slide without actually starting the slide.

The rules say that the ball becomes dead the moment a QB "commits" to a slide, at least, that was the rule back when I was working college football, so a few years ago.

I think we are going to see a change in the rules. You cannot use something put in to protect a player as a tool in your toolchest to avoid getting tackled. And the "slide fake" is definitely going to get someone hurt.

Safety rules are not, should not, and cannot be elements in deception, IMO.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 07, 2021, 09:53:54 PM
I just realized that this year of football finally matched the promise of the excellent hype video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZl35RAxerQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZl35RAxerQ)

Only 12 years late!  :lol:
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 07, 2021, 10:29:17 PM
That is definitely the most awesome hype video ever. I loved that a decade ago.

The amount of work that must have went into that...
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 07, 2021, 10:47:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2021, 10:29:17 PM
That is definitely the most awesome hype video ever. I loved that a decade ago.

The amount of work that must have went into that...

Brian Cook (owner of MGoBlog) had a kind of funny story about that:
QuoteI told Paul I wanted a hype video along the lines that you saw above... and he was skeptical. "I've never put highlights to a waltz," he said. I told the girlfriend I told Paul I wanted a hype video along the lines above and she was incredulous. "But it's desperate and sad," she said. I was kind of like yeah... and? And then also I was kind of like "in desperation there's that shred of hope; people who are down and not desperate are resigned. I could be ignorant or desperate." Actually I didn't say that, I said something along the lines of "hi, I'm a Michigan fan, nice to meet you."

I'd love to see it remade for the 2012-2021 Michigan-Ohio State series.  Lots of heartbreaks there (The Spot, the Two-Point Conversion, etc) and then lots of joy. 

But the lows are so extreme that the good seems fucking cheap
And it teases you for weeks in its absence.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 07, 2021, 10:53:24 PM
When you first posted that video, I loved the song so much I downloaded it and added it to my playlist(s). It is still in my regular rotation.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 08, 2021, 01:00:42 AM
Ban the fake slide.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 09, 2021, 09:42:45 PM
Randy the Plumber predicts the NCS outcomes
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2038059986353706&ref=sharing (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2038059986353706&ref=sharing)

Makes up in enthusiasm what it lacks in analysis.  Hilarious (and may it go from his mouth to God's ear).
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 10, 2021, 10:32:00 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on December 06, 2021, 04:34:19 AM
Have to agree with this guy, dangerous precedent.

https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1467567485549436931
QuoteNever been a "rules are rules!" dweeb but something about bending rules that are put in place to protect players doesn't sit right with me.

Now Ima be a "this sets a dangerous precedent!" dork too bc if QBs add this to their bag,QBs gonna be getting concussed or worse when defenders launch into em when theyre legit sliding bc they arent "falling" for the fake. Also gives dirty defenders an out to get a cheap shot in

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1467303599734730753
Quote from: PFFKenny Pickett hit the fake-slide

VIDEO

QuoteThe NCAA Football Oversight committee sent a bulletin to game officials regarding the "fake slide" by Pittsburgh quarterback Kenny Pickett in the ACC championship game, sources told Sports Illustrated's Pat Forde.

Coordinator of officials Steve Shaw instructed officials to blow a play dead in event of a fake slide attempt by a quarterback. Pickett's fancy move that led to a 58-yard touchdown left fans, teams and everyone in-between wondering if it was legal.

"Any time a ball carrier begins, simulates, or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on field officials at that point. The intent of the rule is player safety, and the objective is to give a ball carrier an option to end the play by sliding feet first and to avoid contact," the ruling reads, in part. "To allow the ball carrier to fake a slide would compromise the defense that is being instructed to let up when the ball carrier slides feet first. A fake slide will not be considered reviewable under Rule 12-3-3 – Dead Ball and Loose Ball."

Play should have been blown dead the moment his ass dropped towards the ground in a apparent slide. I was wrong - the NCAA rules state that the ball becomes dead the moment a player begins a slide, not when the commit to it.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 10, 2021, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 10, 2021, 10:32:00 AM
Play should have been blown dead the moment his ass dropped towards the ground in a apparent slide. I was wrong - the NCAA rules state that the ball becomes dead the moment a player begins a slide, not when the commit to it.

So just a ref goof rather than a rules loophole.  That's good, because the fix is instantaneous.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 10, 2021, 10:21:08 PM
So Jim Harbaugh, as expected, gets the 2021 National Coach of the Year award in Football.  Here's an interesting fact, though:  the 2021 National Coach of the Year award in Basketball was Michigan's Juwan Howard (also a star alum who came back to his alma mater to coach).  The Michigan Difference.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2021, 03:52:45 AM
This Austrian cadet seems ... not very enthused. :lol:

(https://i.redd.it/cyqb5od4uz481.jpg)
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 12, 2021, 09:59:04 PM
Desmond Howard toasts disgraced but still-shitposting former OSU coach:

(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user204896/PNG%20image.png)

Of the eight billion people in the world, four have a Heisman Trophy and Super bowl MVP.  Zach Smith isn't one of them.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 15, 2021, 11:16:30 AM
Arizona has like....a good recruiting class.

There are these bizarre news articles about recruits flipping from other Pac-12 schools to Arizona, instead of the other way around.

I'm not sure what to make of this....
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2021, 11:44:37 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2021, 11:16:30 AM
Arizona has like....a good recruiting class.

There are these bizarre news articles about recruits flipping from other Pac-12 schools to Arizona, instead of the other way around.

I'm not sure what to make of this....

All that big Arizona NIL cash?

"If you come play for Arizona we can put your face on the best billboards in Tucson!!"
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 15, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2021, 11:16:30 AM
Arizona has like....a good recruiting class.

There are these bizarre news articles about recruits flipping from other Pac-12 schools to Arizona, instead of the other way around.

I'm not sure what to make of this....

From what I've read, it's because Fisch and company have focused their recruiting on guys that can count on contributing right away.  Rebuilding programs can offer opportunities that more established programs can't.

Jedd was a good recruiter at Michigan, even with players outside his own position group.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 15, 2021, 06:04:39 PM
So Deion Sanders has flipped the #1 recruit of 2021 from Florida State to... Jackson State, an FCS HBCU.

This is OMFG territory.  Sanders did win the FCS coach of the year award (and Jackson State finished 11-1), but Jackson State didn't even qualify for the FCS 24-team playoff.  OTOH, Sanders is probably the best pure-cover cornerback who ever played pro ball, and Travis Hunter is a cornerback, so maybe it was a position-coaching decision.

Nonetheless, this is good news for college football.  A player didn't go for the razzamatazz, but for the coaching.  Also great for HBCUs if he can keep the spotlight through next year's games.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 17, 2021, 02:46:53 AM
Arizona doesn't really sign 5 star football players. Generally just not even in the mix for those guys.

However....

Arizona did sign a excellent QB prospect from Servite HS in Southern Cal, Noah Fifita. Along with a 4 star TE from that same school.

The top rated player from that school is a 5 star WR, Tetairoa McMillan. He had verbally commited to Oregon, but on Wednesday he declined to sign, saying he was going to take a couple days and would sign by Friday.

He is being heavily recruited by Fisch.

Twitter exchange between Fifita and McMillan:

McMillan: "You're so inspirational man."

Fifita: "Love you my bro! Best player in America #4MoreYears?"

That would be so freaking cool, to steal a 5* WR from Oregon...

Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 17, 2021, 03:03:17 AM
Has anyone else noticed how many QBs have off beat names?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 17, 2021, 03:20:26 AM
Noah is pretty common.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 17, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Oregon is going through some recruiting difficulties because of the coaching change.  Michigan picked off their top WR prospect after getting him on campus for the Ohio State game.

A high school with a 4* QB, 5*WR, and 4* TE is... unusual.  I looked them up, though, and they are one of those Catholic prep school football powerhouses.  With only 850 students, they have full teams for Freshman Football, Junior Varsity, and Varsity.  Having an in there must be huge for a school like Arizona.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 17, 2021, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 17, 2021, 10:14:02 AM
Oregon is going through some recruiting difficulties because of the coaching change.  Michigan picked off their top WR prospect after getting him on campus for the Ohio State game.

A high school with a 4* QB, 5*WR, and 4* TE is... unusual.  I looked them up, though, and they are one of those Catholic prep school football powerhouses.  With only 850 students, they have full teams for Freshman Football, Junior Varsity, and Varsity.  Having an in there must be huge for a school like Arizona.

Yeah, they are like Mater Dei - one of those private prep schools that are just football powerhouses.

Fisch and his staff have been just relentless recruiting Southern California.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 18, 2021, 02:18:39 PM
I've been saying for a very long time, through Stoops and RichRod and Sumlin, that I really am not impressed with anything any of them do if they cannot recruit. Any success will be transitory. Unless Arizona can gets its "share" of talent in the Pac-12, nothing else really matters that much. It never happened. We had some ok recruiting years, but never good ones. A "good" year was being ranked 6th or 7th in the conference in recruiting.

We have never signed a 5* recruit out of high school, and precious few 4* players. When Arizona had a year or two of success, it was because they had managed to find the 3* player who turned out to be a 5* college player.

Fisch might be a shitty game coach, but in his first year with a bad, bad team full of players who frankly are not CBS caliber players, he has signed the highest rated recruiting class in Arizona history. It's a weird year for sure. The extra eligibility from COVID means that there are a lot fewer spots for the highest talent level players on the blue blood programs, and a lot of coaching changes. But he made the best of that, and signed an incredible class, and we just found out that McMillan is coming to Arizona as well.


(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/268017028_4646827268704570_4327428000972695338_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=YAUr1Oo12LIAX_6iuja&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT_VID42naqJLRCmbj4w9IkZJFGxqLUGy9tuVwF69ulcAA&oe=61C33FD3)
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 18, 2021, 02:48:03 PM
A tweet from the Oregon coaching who was recruiting McMillan yesterday. Apparently trying to convince him that he doesn't need to sign by the deadline, and can just wait....

(https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/269593091_10227273729094046_1733253000546352125_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=DnAB9TpMybkAX_FSzml&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AT-RwLzEBTPxvljow0yJtnyXHkhpZI3VqxOKHMN0c4ClSA&oe=61C3F2D2)

Reports are that McMillan was going to go ahead and sign with Oregon after all, but decided he didn't want to play for a coach who doesn't know the difference between your and you're.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2021, 04:45:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTlGLjH_6o

Fun trick play.  "Coach, what's the play??"
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 19, 2021, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2021, 04:45:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTlGLjH_6o

Fun trick play.  "Coach, what's the play??"

Not sure that that isn't "intent to deceive," but if it isn't, you are right that it is the most fun kind of trickeration.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 19, 2021, 11:40:25 AM
Interesting tidbit:  the most explosive offense in the FBS (defined as percentage of plays that go for 50+ yards) is... Michigan.  Even more surprisingly, Michigan had a record ten different players achieve a play that went 50+ yards.

I'm thinking that this is what got Michigan's OC the Broyles award.  He's really good at setting up the defense for an explosive play, even when the plays that set it up don't go for many yards.  I think that it is hard to have the discipline to sacrifice pawns to set up the queen, rather than just going for the most yards possible on each play.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 19, 2021, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 19, 2021, 11:27:18 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2021, 04:45:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLTlGLjH_6o

Fun trick play.  "Coach, what's the play??"

Not sure that that isn't "intent to deceive," but if it isn't, you are right that it is the most fun kind of trickeration.

I actually don't even think it worked. It doesn't look like the defense was sold, they still all fired off at the snap. He just got the yard they needed anyway.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 19, 2021, 06:17:29 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2021, 02:46:53 AM
Arizona did sign a excellent QB prospect from Servite HS in Southern Cal, Noah Fifita. Along with a 4 star TE from that same school.

The top rated player from that school is a 5 star WR, Tetairoa McMillan. He had verbally commited to Oregon, but on Wednesday he declined to sign, saying he was going to take a couple days and would sign by Friday.

Here's a coincidence:  The LA Times High School Player of the Year is from Servite HS, which I read about because he is a Michigan early enrollee: DT Mason Graham.  This place must have amazing coaching, because Graham was a mid-level 3-star when Michigan offered, a high 3-star when he committed, and a high four-star (#220 in  the country) when he signed the LOI.

'Grat's on getting your five-star, btw.  Michigan doesn't have one in its class yet.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on December 20, 2021, 03:20:56 PM
Are those star ratings reliable indicators?  Or is it more of a recruiting tool - come to our school and you will be playing with other high ranked players?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 20, 2021, 03:55:47 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 20, 2021, 03:20:56 PM
Are those star ratings reliable indicators?  Or is it more of a recruiting tool - come to our school and you will be playing with other high ranked players?

Reliable? Hmmm.

There is plenty of hype built into them, and certainly a lot of bias.

But its like any generalization of evaluation.

Sure, you can trot out lots of examples of NFL first round draft picks that were busts, of course.

But overall? In general highly drafted players tend to turn into high quality players more then not.

Same with HS recruit rankings. Any particular one its hard to say whether they are really going to be a star in college. And plenty of 2 and 3 star recruits turn into 4 and 5 star players.

But overall? Yeah, the schools that consistently recruit the higher ranked players do better over time, as should be expected.

As I mentioned to a fellow Arizona fan "Find the diamond in the rough is hard and error prone. Better to just get a pile of diamonds and grab the ones you want".
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on December 20, 2021, 04:00:09 PM
makes sense, thanks.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 20, 2021, 08:54:08 PM
Yeah, the star rankings are mere indicators, but they have some predictive power.  There just isn't enough information, though, to reliably rate the roughly half-million juniors and seniors playing high school football in the US (let alone Canada).  But its good enough that 60% of the five-stars get drafted into the NFL, while only 24% of 4-stars do, and only 6% of three-star (pretty generic) players do.  The NFL is rating just on college performance and player measurables.  It doesn't care about how many stars the player had coming out of high school.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 20, 2021, 10:29:10 PM
https://twitter.com/mrsFeef/status/1472267142787596289?s=20&fbclid=IwAR351hAbtmwf1S1hLwJmGYxBY06qJvwvPMxGVEVgYT7PDe3r0YL__qYCyPQ
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2021, 04:46:09 AM
I daresay, a generic high school football player has far less than a 6% chance of making the NFL.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: ulmont on December 21, 2021, 08:28:10 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2021, 04:46:09 AM
I daresay, a generic high school football player has far less than a 6% chance of making the NFL.

Every year around 1 million boys play high school football in the US if statista.com can be believed.  Cut that to 250,000 to represent just seniors for a year to year comparison.  Every year the NFL drafts around 250 rookies.  So the odds would be more like 0.1% if by generic you mean "randomly chosen."  If you mean "average high school player", the odds are more like 0.0%.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 21, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2021, 04:46:09 AM
I daresay, a generic high school football player has far less than a 6% chance of making the NFL.

:lol:  I daresay that you are confusing the word "generic" with the word "average."   You are also mistaking a parenthetical notation with an argument.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on December 21, 2021, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: ulmont on December 21, 2021, 08:28:10 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2021, 04:46:09 AM
I daresay, a generic high school football player has far less than a 6% chance of making the NFL.

Every year around 1 million boys play high school football in the US if statista.com can be believed.  Cut that to 250,000 to represent just seniors for a year to year comparison.  Every year the NFL drafts around 250 rookies.  So the odds would be more like 0.1% if by generic you mean "randomly chosen."  If you mean "average high school player", the odds are more like 0.0%.

There are about 11,000 scholarship football athletes in the FBS. That is about 2,700 scholarship players coming out of college every year. If 250 get into the NFL from the FBS, that is about 9%. A 3 star player having a 6% chance of getting into the NFL actually is a below average NFL prospect in the overall FBS scholarship population.

Obviously more than 250 players get onto NFL rosters than those that were drafted, but equally obviously players get into the NFL without going through FBS teams. Seems like a reasonable rule of thumb.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 21, 2021, 11:15:00 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2021, 04:46:09 AM
I daresay, a generic high school football player has far less than a 6% chance of making the NFL.

A generic high school football player is not a 3* recruit. A generic high school football player is a zero star recruit.

Grumbler said they were a generic player, and we were talking about college football.

A guy who is a 3* recruit has multiple offers from high level college football programs. Unless he is at some kind of premier, specialized high school football powerhouse, he is almost certainly the best player on his team, and probably one of the best players in his entire high school area. In high school, the kids if a fucking super star if he is a 3* recruit.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on December 21, 2021, 12:43:51 PM
3 star recruits are often super stars in high school, grumbler means generic D1 scholarship player not generic high school player.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on December 21, 2021, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 21, 2021, 11:15:00 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2021, 04:46:09 AM
I daresay, a generic high school football player has far less than a 6% chance of making the NFL.

A generic high school football player is not a 3* recruit. A generic high school football player is a zero star recruit.

Grumbler said they were a generic player, and we were talking about college football.

A guy who is a 3* recruit has multiple offers from high level college football programs. Unless he is at some kind of premier, specialized high school football powerhouse, he is almost certainly the best player on his team, and probably one of the best players in his entire high school area. In high school, the kids if a fucking super star if he is a 3* recruit.

I think I have told this story before - but here it goes again - back in the time before time I was invited to a D1 prospects camp.  After the first couple of drills it was pretty clear that most of us were average some of us (including me) simply did not belong there.  And there were two kids who definitely had a shot.  One of those kids eventually went on to play D1.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 21, 2021, 02:41:58 PM
I've heard it said that the jump from high school to D1 is the largest jump in talent for anyone who makes it to the professional level.

Which makes sense, at least from a statistical standpoint.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on December 21, 2021, 06:02:26 PM
Yeah, I went into that camp thinking I was a pretty big deal.  But as I say, a couple drills in, I turned to one of the kids who was really very good and told him I did not think I was good enough to carry his water bottle.

He just smiled and then dunked over me in the next drill  :D
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 21, 2021, 07:21:49 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 21, 2021, 02:41:58 PM
I've heard it said that the jump from high school to D1 is the largest jump in talent for anyone who makes it to the professional level.

Which makes sense, at least from a statistical standpoint.

I didn't think that that was true, until I did some rough numbers. There are roughly 250,000 high school football players graduating each year.  Roughly 3600 (130 * average class of 28) get scholarships at Div 1 programs, or about 1.5%.  Of the roughly 2600 Div 1 scholarship players that graduate, 290 or so make a pro team (drafted or UDFA), so roughly 11%.  The other divisions add 150% more players, but only 10 or so guys to the NFL.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: ulmont on December 22, 2021, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on December 21, 2021, 10:50:48 AM
There are about 11,000 scholarship football athletes in the FBS. That is about 2,700 scholarship players coming out of college every year. If 250 get into the NFL from the FBS, that is about 9%. A 3 star player having a 6% chance of getting into the NFL actually is a below average NFL prospect in the overall FBS scholarship population.

I didn't scroll up far enough to see the 3* discussion.  Agreed 6% is much closer than .1% for a 3* college recruit.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 22, 2021, 06:46:19 PM
There's also the guys who get drafted but don't make the roster.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: ulmont on December 22, 2021, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 22, 2021, 06:46:19 PM
There's also the guys who get drafted but don't make the roster.

If you get drafted, you made the NFL.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 22, 2021, 07:04:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 22, 2021, 06:46:19 PM
There's also the guys who get drafted but don't make the roster.

Sure, but there's no way I know of to separate every NFL player by length of time in the NFL.  We can just look at the number drafted + number of UDFAs.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 22, 2021, 07:06:17 PM
Quote from: ulmont on December 22, 2021, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 22, 2021, 06:46:19 PM
There's also the guys who get drafted but don't make the roster.

If you get drafted, you made the NFL.

Yeah, Yi is thinking final roster, not off-season roster.  Everyone drafted makes the offseason roster unless they never sign a contract, which I am not sure has happened in the modern era.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on December 23, 2021, 07:00:28 PM
Here's a weird one:  Ohio State couldn't sell 1/3 of their tickets to the Rose Bowl and had to return them: https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/2021/12/23/ohio-state-football-sold-two-thirds-rose-bowl-ticket-allotment/9009620002/ (https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/2021/12/23/ohio-state-football-sold-two-thirds-rose-bowl-ticket-allotment/9009620002/)

Further, OSU has only sold out seven of its last twelve home games.

OSU had always had one of those fanatical fan bases that always sold out home games and always sold out the big bowls, at least.  Hell, Michigan was supposed to suck this year but still sold out the stadium.

I wonder what's going on with the OSU fan base.  The team is as good as it's ever been.  Maybe Day being such a bland coach is affecting the fans?  That would be strange, because he's 23-1 in conference games!
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on December 24, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
OSU has very intellectual fans, who understand the dangers of pandemics, unlike Michigan.


:lmfao:
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on January 05, 2022, 11:31:10 PM
Now that the interesting part of the season is over....

What do these changes to the NCAA rules mean for the future of college football?

It seems to me like the NCAA has basically just given up entirely any effort to regulate the paying of players. Players can now be paid, and as far as I can see, there is zero control on that.

Anyone can pay any player anything they want, and with free transfers....doesn't that basically mean every single college football player is an unlimited free agent, all the time?

All this talk about the transfer portal, and who is going where....isn't it already, or going to be, simply a matter of someone with money going to whatever players they like and saying "I'll pay you to transfer to <insert SEC school here>"?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 06, 2022, 12:43:48 AM
SEC fans aren't the only people with money.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on January 06, 2022, 07:27:05 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 05, 2022, 11:31:10 PM
Now that the interesting part of the season is over....

What do these changes to the NCAA rules mean for the future of college football?

It seems to me like the NCAA has basically just given up entirely any effort to regulate the paying of players. Players can now be paid, and as far as I can see, there is zero control on that.

Anyone can pay any player anything they want, and with free transfers....doesn't that basically mean every single college football player is an unlimited free agent, all the time?

All this talk about the transfer portal, and who is going where....isn't it already, or going to be, simply a matter of someone with money going to whatever players they like and saying "I'll pay you to transfer to <insert SEC school here>"?

Transfers are not unlimited.  You get one free transfer, just like all NCAA sports, and the ability to transfer freely after graduation.

The NIL stuff is going to be interesting.  My understanding is that the universities don't know what the problems are going to be so are afraid of trying to establish rules.  They'll have to, at some point.

I'm hoping that somehow the NFL is forced or convinced to start a minor league to bleed off all of these players who just want to go to the pros.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on January 06, 2022, 08:44:13 AM
I find it amusing that the NCAA is saying that you can pay a player for NIL, but you *cannot* pay a player to just go play at some particular school. As if there is any possible way to actually enforce that.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on January 06, 2022, 09:35:11 AM
Quote from: grumbler on December 23, 2021, 07:00:28 PM
Here's a weird one:  Ohio State couldn't sell 1/3 of their tickets to the Rose Bowl and had to return them: https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/2021/12/23/ohio-state-football-sold-two-thirds-rose-bowl-ticket-allotment/9009620002/ (https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/2021/12/23/ohio-state-football-sold-two-thirds-rose-bowl-ticket-allotment/9009620002/)

Further, OSU has only sold out seven of its last twelve home games.

OSU had always had one of those fanatical fan bases that always sold out home games and always sold out the big bowls, at least.  Hell, Michigan was supposed to suck this year but still sold out the stadium.

I wonder what's going on with the OSU fan base.  The team is as good as it's ever been.  Maybe Day being such a bland coach is affecting the fans?  That would be strange, because he's 23-1 in conference games!

College football is boring without a relevant Miami Hurricanes program?

More seriously, the rose bowl (which is actually officially: the Rose Bowl Game presented by Capital One Venture X) is now a shit bowl game, just like every other bowl game. It is playoffs or bust. Over 20 something years ago the rose bowl was guaranteed to match up the Big 10 champ and the Pac 10 champ and so that was the goal of any team in those leagues, but this year it is for the Big 10 runner up and that traditional Pac 10/12/whatever team of Utah that dropped games to powerhouses of BYU and San Diego State.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on January 06, 2022, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 06, 2022, 07:27:05 AM

I'm hoping that somehow the NFL is forced or convinced to start a minor league to bleed off all of these players who just want to go to the pros.

Almost all the players just want to go to the pros, but since the courts have decided to blow the doors off restrictions on paying players, there is no point to a minor league. That is college football now. Sure you can start a minor league if you want, but the real money is going to be in the minor league called college football, since those teams have the brand equity that will bring the bigger compensation packages.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on January 06, 2022, 12:20:56 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 06, 2022, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 06, 2022, 07:27:05 AM

I'm hoping that somehow the NFL is forced or convinced to start a minor league to bleed off all of these players who just want to go to the pros.

Almost all the players just want to go to the pros, but since the courts have decided to blow the doors off restrictions on paying players, there is no point to a minor league. That is college football now. Sure you can start a minor league if you want, but the real money is going to be in the minor league called college football, since those teams have the brand equity that will bring the bigger compensation packages.

I think you are right, and to the extent the NFL needs some further farm teams - it has always had the CFL.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on January 06, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
There are not nearly enough teams in the CFL, though obviously it has always been a nice source of talent.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on January 06, 2022, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 06, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
There are not nearly enough teams in the CFL, though obviously it has always been a nice source of talent.

What number of teams would be needed in addition to all the college teams?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on January 07, 2022, 11:36:34 AM
https://thespun.com/college-football/caleb-williams-has-received-1-million-transfer-offer?fbclid=IwAR0dbbc2qRSvB-VR8QhNVvrV0A22QZnNU3uyr1t5d-WVW-xKQrAIb2B2ssE (https://thespun.com/college-football/caleb-williams-has-received-1-million-transfer-offer?fbclid=IwAR0dbbc2qRSvB-VR8QhNVvrV0A22QZnNU3uyr1t5d-WVW-xKQrAIb2B2ssE)




I don't see how college athletics survives in any recognizable state.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on January 07, 2022, 12:18:25 PM
Thank you US Supreme Court!
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: crazy canuck on January 07, 2022, 12:46:36 PM
I am not sure that disrupting the model is such a bad thing.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on January 07, 2022, 02:34:26 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on January 07, 2022, 12:18:25 PM
Thank you US Supreme Court!

Actually, it wasn't the Supreme Court, but state legislatures, that forced these rules changes.  The USSC ruling in Alston was about education-related benefits.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on January 07, 2022, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 06, 2022, 05:08:59 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 06, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
There are not nearly enough teams in the CFL, though obviously it has always been a nice source of talent.

What number of teams would be needed in addition to all the college teams?

Well none. But if we were to use the CFL as the development league instead of College Football it would need to be much bigger. I mean there is a reason why football fans don't start talking about what promising young talent they cannot wait gets called up from the CFL. There is just not a ton of that kind of thing going on every year, though it happens obviously.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on January 07, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 07, 2022, 11:36:34 AM
https://thespun.com/college-football/caleb-williams-has-received-1-million-transfer-offer?fbclid=IwAR0dbbc2qRSvB-VR8QhNVvrV0A22QZnNU3uyr1t5d-WVW-xKQrAIb2B2ssE (https://thespun.com/college-football/caleb-williams-has-received-1-million-transfer-offer?fbclid=IwAR0dbbc2qRSvB-VR8QhNVvrV0A22QZnNU3uyr1t5d-WVW-xKQrAIb2B2ssE)




I don't see how college athletics survives in any recognizable state.

I think Basketball and Football have been in that state for awhile, at least in some form. I don't have any insider information or anything beyond the usual rumors of vast and deep corruption. It is just legal and above board now.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 10, 2022, 11:59:56 PM
@ulmont-  :nelson:
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on January 11, 2022, 11:31:39 AM
Yeah congrats Georgia. A year where Alabama doesn't win is a victory for us all good and decent people.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2022, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 11, 2022, 11:31:39 AM
Yeah congrats Georgia. A year where Alabama doesn't win is a victory for us all good and decent people.

That's rather ironic, given that Georgia is probably the most corrupt football program not located in the state of Louisiana.  I'm glad to se Alabama lose, but it is bittersweet when it means that Georgia wins. 
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 11, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
I think what you're tasting is sour grapes.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on January 11, 2022, 02:31:13 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 11, 2022, 01:53:22 PM
I think what you're tasting is sour grapes.

:lol:  I think that what you are experiencing is wishful thinking.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on January 12, 2022, 11:39:22 AM
Man. Arizona had the best recruiting class it has seen in a couple decades.

And now they are just landing a shitload of talent from the transfer portal.

WSU's "freshman" QB who was second in the conference last year in passing yards.

A 4* LB from USC.

A 4* DL from UCLA.

It's just nuts. I am sure it has a lot to do with just how weird the recruiting world is right now, but Fisch has really stepped up Arizona's ability to attract higher end talent. Which is kind of incredible for a team that only one a single game this year....
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on January 12, 2022, 05:55:50 PM
Quote from: Berkut on January 12, 2022, 11:39:22 AM
Man. Arizona had the best recruiting class it has seen in a couple decades.

And now they are just landing a shitload of talent from the transfer portal.

WSU's "freshman" QB who was second in the conference last year in passing yards.

A 4* LB from USC.

A 4* DL from UCLA.

It's just nuts. I am sure it has a lot to do with just how weird the recruiting world is right now, but Fisch has really stepped up Arizona's ability to attract higher end talent. Which is kind of incredible for a team that only one a single game this year....

They only one won game this year?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on January 12, 2022, 11:31:46 PM
Only won game? That is all they one?
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on January 28, 2022, 04:06:00 PM
"That is some voodoo shit right there!"


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKI4VzeUYAE11db?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on May 21, 2022, 11:43:58 AM
Here's an interesting story from MGoBlog (https://mgoblog.com/content/case-big-ten-showcase#read-more) which proposes to do away with (at least in the Big Ten) the conference championship game and instead have a conference showcase on that Saturday which has all the teams playing, but in matchups designed to create the most compelling games.

The highlights
QuoteThe weekend after Thanksgiving, each team would play one of the four Big Ten opponents they missed during the 9-game regular season, assigned by record. Sometimes—often I suspect—the top game would remain a winner-take-all championship bout. But it would do away with rematches, could do away with the need for divisions, virtually ensure all the championship contenders got a chance to play each other, and finish the season with relatively evenly matched Big Ten games we would have otherwise missed.
...
The Plan
I. Big Ten Championship weekend will be replaced by Showcase games across the conference.

At the end of the regular season (IE the week after Thanksgiving) the Big Ten will host three to seven (preferably seven) games between Big Ten teams that have not yet played each other. These can be hosted on campus, or (sigh) at one or more neutral sites.

We'll have to get approved for a 13th game, but I can't see why they would allow 2 teams to do this and not the rest. If a de facto tenth conference game is an issue with the NCAA, the showcase can be chopped down to just the three best games not played, but that's less fun. More Big Ten football: good for everybody.

II. Best teams that haven't played each other play each other, and on down.

Choosing the games is actually really simple once the data (records and which games haven't been played yet) are in front of you. Let's take the 2021 season:

Seed   School                 Rk  Div   Haven't Yet Played   Showcase Opponent
1   Michigan (8-1)        #1a East   Iowa, Minn, PU, IL   vs. Iowa (Game 1)
2   Ohio State (8-1)     #1b East   Iowa, Wis, IL, NW   vs. Wisconsin (Game 2)
3   Michigan State (7-2)  #3 East   Iowa, Minn, Wis, IL   vs. Minnesota (Game 3)
4   Iowa (7-2)         #1 West   UM, OSU, MSU, RU   @ Michigan (Game 1)
5   Minnesota (6-3)        #2a West   UM, MSU, PSU, RU   @ Michigan State (Game 3)
6   Wisconsin (6-3)        #2b West   OSU, MSU, UMD, IU   @ Ohio State (Game 2)
7   Purdue (6-3)        #2c West   UM, PSU, UMD, RU   @ Penn State (Game 4)
8   Illinois (4-5)         #5 West   UM, OSU, MSU, IU   @ Indiana (Game 5)
9   Penn State (4-5)      #4 East   Minn, PU, Neb, NW   vs. Purdue (Game 4)
10   Maryland (3-6)         #5 East   Wis, PU, Neb, NW   vs. Northwestern (Game 6)
11   Rutgers (2-7)         #6 East   Iowa, Minn, PU, Neb   vs. Nebraska (Game 7)
12   Nebraska (1-8)         #6a West   PSU, UMD, RU, IU   @ Rutgers (Game 7)
13   Northwestern (1-8)    #6b West   OSU, PSU, UMD, IU   @ Maryland (Game 6)
14   Indiana (0-9)         #7 East   Wis, IL, Neb, NW   vs. Illinois (Game 5)

The best opponent Michigan hasn't played is Iowa; there's your Game 1. Ohio State already played Minnesota so they get Wisconsin, and MSU gets Minnesota. The rest fall into place with very little room for decisions (read: controversy).

In cases where there are multiple ways to organize the matchups, go with whatever makes for the best games, based on rivalries and knowledge of the specific teams in the context of that season. The Big Ten can have broad power to build the matchups that work best, so long as the results of the top game(s) will produce an undisputed champion, and there are no rematches.

The NCAA would have to expand the pool of teams eligible to play a thirteenth game, but that's just expanding on what already exists.

Avoiding rematches is key because playing rematches cannot increase our knowledge of which teams are better.  If Team A beats Team B, then Team A has proven itself the better team.  If there is a rematch, then thereare only two possible outcomes:
1.  Team A wins again, which tells us nothing because we already knew Team A was better, or
2. Team B wins, in which case our knowledge from the first game is erased with nothing to replace it (wa can't say that Team B is better, because it already lost to Team A).

This would also mean that every Big Ten team would have five conference home game (not possible now because they play none conference games, so half the teams have five home games and the other half have four).  That opens up a lot of potential home-and-away nonconference matchups because schools won't have to schedule around the years in which they have only four home conference games.

This makes so much sense that it won't ever happen, but it does show that it is very possible to do scheduling designed to produce good matchups, if only the people in charge wanted to.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on May 24, 2022, 07:14:39 AM
It is a terrible idea. It is simply about adding meaningless games to the schedule to increase TV revenue.

When I was a kid the argument against playoffs was that teams play too many games for student athletes. There were `11 games in the regular season; 12 with a bowl game. An 8 team playoff would mean 2 teams would play 14 games, which were just too many.

Now we've got a 12 game regular season, we added a championship game which i guess is cool because it is just two teams competing for a championship? and an 8 team playoff. That is 16 games for a couple teams most of the time.

There isn't a clamor for more meaningless games. Ohio State couldn't sell its Rose Bowl ticket allotment last year as the game has been demoted to consolation game status with the playoffs, and players are now opting out of playing in it.

Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on May 24, 2022, 08:17:47 AM
All college football games are meaningless games designed to attract TV revenue.  The showcase idea just means that we get some games that didn't occur in the regular season.  While it means an extra game for some additional athletes, that extra game already exists for some, so that's not a credible complaint.

The fact that OSU fans were pouty last season doesn't change the fact that this means more football.  Some of the games even quite good games, while others will give teams that finished poorly a chance to redeem themselves a bit.  They are on-campus games, so attendance won't be ore of an issue that for any other home game.

The fact that the matchups are determined after the end of the regular season means that they will be more evenly matched than 90% of the regular-season games.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on May 24, 2022, 08:26:55 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 24, 2022, 08:17:47 AMAll college football games are meaningless games designed to attract TV revenue.
QuoteI don't think that is true. We had college football games scheduled before TV was invented. If it never was I still think we'd be playing college football.

QuoteThe showcase idea just means that we get some games that didn't occur in the regular season.  While it means an extra game for some additional athletes, that extra game already exists for some, so that's not a credible complaint.

Step 1: Lets introduce a championship game. Yeah it is an extra game but that is just two schools and for those schools the experience of a championship game is going to be worth the drain of their already limited time.
Step 2: We have a championship game so two schools already play a longer season, so if you can't credibly argue that the season would be too long if we extend that to everyone.

QuoteThe fact that OSU fans were pouty last season doesn't change the fact that this means more football.  Some of the games even quite good games, while others will give teams that finished poorly a chance to redeem themselves a bit.  They are on-campus games, so attendance won't be ore of an issue that for any other home game.

The fact that the matchups are determined after the end of the regular season means that they will be more evenly matched than 90% of the regular-season games.

Who really wants to see the #5 Big 10 team play the #6 Big 10 team, even if that is evenly matched? Attendance has been an issue in college football for a while for on campus games too, not just bowl games.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Barrister on June 23, 2022, 01:16:16 PM
Congrats Valmy - apparently Arch Manning (nephew of Peyton and Eli) committed to Texas today.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2022, 12:10:13 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 23, 2022, 01:16:16 PMCongrats Valmy - apparently Arch Manning (nephew of Peyton and Eli) committed to Texas today.

This is the second coming of Chris Sims (son of Phil Sims). When he committed a ton of great players came with him and powered Texas from 2001-2005. When they all left you could really feel the decrease in talent in the program and the slow decline of Texas Longhorn Football (and then a very fast decline in 2010). And lots of great players seem to committing along with Archibald, just like last time.

Hopefully the rest will also resemble last time.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on June 30, 2022, 01:23:20 PM
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/34173688/source-usc-ucla-considering-move-pac-12-big-ten

Wow. That would just destroy the Pac-12 obviously. Talk about a resulting Super Conference though!
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 06:43:40 PM
I wonder how realignment is going to shake out with this.  I can see the Big 12 making a play for Utah, Colorado, and the Arizona schools.  Berkeley, Cal, Washington, and Oregon are all AAU members and the Big ten might want to reach out for some or all of them.  I don't know where Wash St or Oregon State would go.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on June 30, 2022, 06:49:34 PM
This is really dumb.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on June 30, 2022, 07:18:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 30, 2022, 06:49:34 PMThis is really dumb.
$$$
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2022, 07:22:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 06:43:40 PMI wonder how realignment is going to shake out with this.  I can see the Big 12 making a play for Utah, Colorado, and the Arizona schools.  Berkeley, Cal, Washington, and Oregon are all AAU members and the Big ten might want to reach out for some or all of them.  I don't know where Wash St or Oregon State would go.

The Big 12 has nothing to offer the Pac 12 remnant that they cannot easily do for themselves thanks to UT and OU leaving. The whole situation is a disaster IMO. I feel like College Football is turning itself from a nationwide obsession to a regional NFL-lite.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: alfred russel on June 30, 2022, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 30, 2022, 07:18:25 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 30, 2022, 06:49:34 PMThis is really dumb.
$$$

These are universities, that are nonprofits dedicated to education and instilling life skills for its students. I don't think they would make major institutional decisions just for the $$$.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on June 30, 2022, 07:31:57 PM
Well, the only good news in being a fan of an irrelevant team is that this standing will not change.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 09:45:28 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 30, 2022, 07:23:08 PMThese are universities, that are nonprofits dedicated to education and instilling life skills for its students. I don't think they would make major institutional decisions just for the $$$.

Yes, but I don't think that deciding which conference their athletic teams play in is a "major institutional decision." 

Big Five schools expect their athletic departments to be self-financing.  The Pac 12 is the least supportive Big Five conference, expecting to pass about $38 million to each school in 2023, while the Big Ten is expected to pass $61 to each school.  Both will renew their TV contracts for 2024, but the Pac 12 is expected to bump their per-school share to only $39 million, while the Big Ten is expected to bump its per-school payout to $87 million (and that's before adding USC and UCLA).  That's not an insignificant difference when the UCLA athletic budget last year was $110 million (which was $62 million more than revenue, due to COVID - but the UCLA athletic department had also lost money in 2020 and 2019).

The Pac 12 turns over 74% of its revenue to the schools. The Big Ten 92%.

It's the $$$ and it makes perfect sense.  For the Big Ten, it also makes sense because the added value to the next TV contract (big new market) more than offsets the added travel costs.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2022, 07:22:49 PMThe Big 12 has nothing to offer the Pac 12 remnant that they cannot easily do for themselves thanks to UT and OU leaving. The whole situation is a disaster IMO. I feel like College Football is turning itself from a nationwide obsession to a regional NFL-lite.

The NIL stuff will do even more damage than the destruction of football traditions that comes with conference realignment.  This is especially true because different states impose different standards for what a school can do. Ohio State's AD is attempting to arrange a $14 million/year deal with boosters that will allow him to choose the players on whom to bestow NIL contract.  In Michigan, universities cannot do anything to help arrange NIL deals.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on June 30, 2022, 10:05:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 30, 2022, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 30, 2022, 07:22:49 PMThe Big 12 has nothing to offer the Pac 12 remnant that they cannot easily do for themselves thanks to UT and OU leaving. The whole situation is a disaster IMO. I feel like College Football is turning itself from a nationwide obsession to a regional NFL-lite.

The NIL stuff will do even more damage than the destruction of football traditions that comes with conference realignment.  This is especially true because different states impose different standards for what a school can do. Ohio State's AD is attempting to arrange a $14 million/year deal with boosters that will allow him to choose the players on whom to bestow NIL contract.  In Michigan, universities cannot do anything to help arrange NIL deals.

Definitely. It is becoming something different. Something that seems like it will suck.

But nothing to do but wait and see.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on July 01, 2022, 08:00:09 AM
Man, this sucks.

I mean...I get it. You have to follow the money, and the money for them just doesn't make sense where they are now, and isn't likely to materially change.

But the Pac-12 was a cool conference. 
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on July 01, 2022, 08:36:44 AM
It's gonna get worse.  The little fish, like Wyoming, will be left outside to die in the cold.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on July 01, 2022, 08:48:40 AM
Quote from: PDH on July 01, 2022, 08:36:44 AMIt's gonna get worse.  The little fish, like Wyoming, will be left outside to die in the cold.
Well, I don't know if they will die, but they are definitely going to become even littler fish, as the big fish suck up more of the sweet, sweet cash for themselves.

I just hope Arizona can figure out how to be part of the "big fish" ocean, instead of the little fish pond.

It seems unlikley that the Big10 is done gorging itself. But if they want more Pac12 schools to get some geographic balance to their new West Coast league in the new Super Conference, I don't think grabbing Arizona is likely to make sense. More likely they go after Cal, Stanford, Washington, and Oregon.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on July 01, 2022, 12:05:05 PM
Perhaps overly dramatic, and the dying has been going on for some time, but the little guys get left out more and more this will just be another big step into the exclusion.

You should pray that one of the big conferences wants Arizona, or they will be back to playing Wyoming every year like in the old WAC.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 06:07:24 PM
Latest news is that Oregon and Washington also requested to join the Big Ten, but were told that they need to wait for Notre Dame to definitively accept or reject their longstanding invitation to join.  The B10 is clearly going to accept either two or four new members beyond USC and UCLA.  Four actually makes more sense because two ten-team divisions (or four five-team pods, which I think more likely) would eliminate the distortions caused by crossover games. 
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: PDH on July 01, 2022, 08:45:16 PM
The Pac-12 is eating itself.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 09:22:08 PM
To be fair, the Pac 12 was eating itself pretty much full time when Larry Scott was commissioner.  He turned down the addition of Texas and Oklahoma (not that they necessary would have joined, but he nixed the possibility), he set up a dreadful, money-losing Pac 12 network, he vastly expanded the conference payroll at the expense of the schools, and he moved a lot of games to Friday nights, when not even the West Coast fans wanted to watch.  And the conference kept him on for 12 years!

The financial fragility of Pac 12 schools is pretty much 95% his fault.

It really is a pity that a century of football tradition was wrecked by one guy.  I still think football was better when the Big Ten and Pac Ten played for a trip to the Rose Bowl and any other bowl was just a consolation prize.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Valmy on July 01, 2022, 09:39:02 PM
Then UT President Powers desperately wanted in the PAC. The only reason Texas and its five regional partners did not move over in 2010 was because Texas A&M said no and Texas didn't want to divorce itself with its main in-state partner/frenemy/rival.

I was never clear why the PAC 16 in 2011 didn't happen. Was it the LHN? Was it not enough money for the Big 12 4? I guess it was Larry Scott.

All ancient history now. But Texas was never going without many regional partners, because of the time zone thing.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: Berkut on July 01, 2022, 09:55:54 PM
Quote from: PDH on July 01, 2022, 08:45:16 PMThe Pac-12 is eating itself.
Not really.

The Big10 and the SEC are going to be the super conferences, and UCLA and USC saw where the money was, and fucked the Pac12.

I can't really blame them, but I don't think they are any kinds of victims.
Title: Re: College Football, 2021-22
Post by: grumbler on July 01, 2022, 10:29:57 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 01, 2022, 09:55:54 PMNot really.

The Big10 and the SEC are going to be the super conferences, and UCLA and USC saw where the money was, and fucked the Pac12.

I can't really blame them, but I don't think they are any kinds of victims.

They are no more victims of the Pac 12's incompetence than any other school, true, but they are victims.  They fucked the Pac 12 after the Pac 12 fucked them.  You just can't ignore the conference's weaknesses as a conference.