Round 1 Results:
Habbaku 3-1 (1-1)
Nels 3-1 (1-1)
Berkut 2-2 (1-1)
-------------------
Somlyr 1-3
Drakken 1-3
Pool AHabbaku: 3-1
- Berkut - 142423 - Win
- solmyr 148314 - Win
- Nels Loss
- Drakken - Win
Berkut: 2-2
- Habbaku - 142423 Loss
- solmyr 149515 Win
- Nels 148160 Win
- Drakken 149403 Loss
solmyr 1-3
- Habbaku 148314 Loss
- Berkut 149515 Loss
- Nels 148315 - Loss
- Drakken 148344 Win
Nels 3-1
- Habbaku Win
- solmyr 148315 - Win
- Drakken 148137 Win
- Berkut 148160 Loss
Drakken 1-3
- Berkut 149403 Win
- Habbaku Loss
- Nels 148137 Loss
- solmyr 148344 Loss
Pool Bmkiefte 4-0 (2-0)
tamas 2-2 (1-1)
sbr 2-2 (0-2)
------------------------
bogh 2-2
baron 0-4
mkiefte 4-0
- Tamas Win
- sbr - 148064 Win
- bogh Win
- Baron Win
Tamas 2-2
- mkiefte Loss
- sbr - 148122 Win
- bogh 147974 Loss
- Baron - 148843 Win
sbr 2-2
- mkiefte - 148064 - Loss
- Tamas - 148122 Loss
- bogh - 147972 Win
- Baron Win
bogh 2-2
- mkiefte Loss
- Tamas 147974 Win
- sbr - 147972 - Loss
- Baron Win
Baron 0-4
- mkiefte Loss
- Tamas - 148843 Loss
- sbr Loss
- bogh Loss
Round Robin #1:
Two pools of 5, A and B. Everyone plays everyone else once, and we rank by W/L record.
A1
A2
A3
A4
A5
B1
B2
B3
B4
B5
Then for round 2, we eliminate A4, A5, B4, and B5.
We play an outher Round Robin, but you only play the teams from the other Pool, you don't play your pools teams again. But you do retain your record against those teams, and we see who has the highest overall win total a champion.
Example:
A1: 4-0
A2: 3-1
A3: 2-2
A4: 1-3
A5: 0-4
B1: 3-1
B2: 3-1
B3: 2-2
B4: 1-3
B5: 1-3
For Round 1, the top three from each advance, and play a round robin against the other pool only.
A1 v B3
A2 v B2
A3 v B1
A1 v B2
A2 v B1
A3 v B3
A1 v B1
A2 v B3
A3 v B2
The key here is that each of them go into this second round starting with the record they finished the first round with but only against the actual teams that made it to the second round. So A1 would be 2-0 to start, A2 would be 1-1, etc., etc.
This gives everyone who advances games against everyone else who advances, and you get a result that is nearly a ten team round robin.
As we stand now, with our current rankings, we would have:
A1: Habbaku
A2: solmyr
A3:Berkut
A4: Nels
A5:Drakken
B1: mkiefte
B2: Tamas
B3: sbr
B4: bogh
B5: baron
Sure.
With Habbaku in, it's all about second place now.
I'm in.
Definitely. Incompetently. In.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2016, 11:06:45 PM
With Habbaku in, it's all about second place now.
I can take him
Yes
Is this the game that triggered fahdiz?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 21, 2016, 11:06:45 PM
With Habbaku in, it's all about second place now.
I've beaten him before. :homestar:
I don't think I've ever won a game of Twilight Struggle, have never played it pbem, and I don't know the deluxe version changes, but it sounds like fun anyway. I'm in too.
Habs is certainly beatable. You just have to get all the right cards in the right order and have him roll badly. It's not hard.
Quote from: Delirium on November 22, 2016, 08:45:26 AM
I don't think I've ever won a game of Twilight Struggle, have never played it pbem, and I don't know the deluxe version changes, but it sounds like fun anyway. I'm in too.
Me too. Will be more than happy to accidentally DefCon in Early War. Count me in, I can lose as easy in the first round as any other #16 seed.
I've only played the computer version.
I would have won some, had I not DEFCON-suicided myself by mistake. :(
AAR please :cool:
Quote from: Drakken on November 22, 2016, 01:23:32 PM
I would have won some, had I not DEFCON-suicided myself by mistake. :(
Has to be the most common n00b mistake of all.
So, which rules do we use for this tourney?
- +2 Influence for US at start?
- Chinese Civil War?
- Standard deck only?
- Two games per opponent in the Robin round, once playing each side?
Default rules will be (for Pool Play):
+2 US Influence
No Chinese Civil War
Include Optional Cards
For Pool play, this will be default. Once we have match ups, you can agree to adjust those on mutual agreement of both players.
For single elim round, we will bid influence.
I am thinking about doing pool play something like this.
Divide everyone into pools of 3 (4 pools). Play each other person in your pool once as each side. That will be 4 games for each player per pool.
The winner of each pool gets into the single elim tournament round, plus the next two highest point total from all pools (6 players in).
Those 6 players play off against each other for three spots in the finals of four.
The last 6 players each play against each other, and of the three winners, the highest total points gets the fourth spot in the finals.
Is this the PC/Steam version? If so I am in.
Quote from: sbr on November 22, 2016, 10:01:54 PM
Is this the PC/Steam version? If so I am in.
Yeah. It works across platforms though, so you can use iPads as well.
OK, keeping a roster in the first post. Check it and make sure I have you listed if you are interested in playing...
I suggest the two games will be run parallel between two players. So we start two games at the same time, as each side.
Count me in.
Who the fuck are you?
LOL, mkiefte is a friend of mine and Habs who I asked to join and play with us.
Be nice! At least as nice as Languish can be. Which, I suppose, isn't all that nice...
I'm in.
Great, more Russian propagandists. WHAT COULD HAPPEN
OK, so that gives us 12. I think we give it another day or so to see if anyone else wants in and get started...
CHECK THE FIRST POST AND MAKE SURE YOUR NAME IS THERE IF YOU ARE PLAYING!!!
Proposed structure.
Pool Play
Divide into 4 pools of 3 players, A-L ranked by TS rating at start of tournament.
Pool 1: AHI
Pool 2: BGJ
Pool 3: CFK
Pool 4: DEL
Within each pool, start up 1 game against each common opponent. Randomly decide sides for the first game, or pick, whichever you prefer.
Once that game is complete, switch sides and play each other again.
Default is:
+1 Influcence for US Player
Optional Cards
No Chinese Civil War.
Any of these can be changed at the agreement of both players, but must be consistent between both plays between those players.
So each player will play 4 games in pool play.
Ranking within the pool is by total game won.
Ties determined by:
1. Games won between the two players in question (So if you go 2-0 against the person you are tied against, you win against them in a two way tie).
2. Games won by the US.
3. Games played by the US.
3. Die roll.
After this, we will divide the players as follows:
Gold Pool:
Winner of each pool above, G1-G4, plus the next two highest win totals, G5 and G6.
Silver Pool:
Next four players by total games won, using the above tie breakers, S1-S4
Last two players from pool play are eliminated.
Elimination Round 1:
Gold Pool:
G1 v G6
G2 v G5
G3 v G4
Winners of each head to head match will advance (three advance). Play 2 games against each other, switch sides. If one player wins both, they advance. If it is tied, a third match is played, randomly chosen sides to decide the match, US player wins ties. (IE, in any given game, a tie result is a US win)
Silver Pool
S1 v S4
S2 v S3
Only one player will advance from this pool. Play 1 game each, randomly chosen sides. US wins ties. Winners play each other to advance.
Final round will be three winnners from Gold, G1-G3 and 1 winner from Silver S1.
G1 vs S1
G2 vs G3
Same format, play two games switching sides and a third game if necessary. Winners play each other for the championship.
This may seem kind of overly complex, but it is basically a way of having a tournament where even if you don't "win" in the early rounds, you can still make it to the finals, albeit with a much more difficult road.
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 04:16:46 PM
Default is:
+1 Influcence for US Player
Optional Cards
No Chinese Civil War.
Traditional is +2 IPs for US. Is there a specific reason we aren't using that?
Quote from: Habbaku on November 25, 2016, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 04:16:46 PM
Default is:
+1 Influcence for US Player
Optional Cards
No Chinese Civil War.
Traditional is +2 IPs for US. Is there a specific reason we aren't using that?
+1 is WBC rulez.
https://twilightstruggletourney.wordpress.com/201516tournament/
No it isn't:
http://boardgamers.org/previews16/tws.html
I'm ok as long as Berkut takes care of the paperwork and tells me who I'm playing and when. :P
Quote from: Solmyr on November 25, 2016, 06:28:09 PM
I'm ok as long as Berkut takes care of the paperwork and tells me who I'm playing and when. :P
This heresy cannot stand, man.
Quote from: Habbaku on November 25, 2016, 06:30:28 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on November 25, 2016, 06:28:09 PM
I'm ok as long as Berkut takes care of the paperwork and tells me who I'm playing and when. :P
This heresy cannot stand, man.
No Chinese Civil War. It's already heretical.
Quote from: Habbaku on November 25, 2016, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 04:16:46 PM
Default is:
+1 Influcence for US Player
Optional Cards
No Chinese Civil War.
Traditional is +2 IPs for US. Is there a specific reason we aren't using that?
Yes - that is what the WBC tournament used, and since one of our default tie breakers is that the US wins tie games, I think the idea is to make it a tougher choice to take the US.
Check the front page, and if I don't have your TS name listed after your name, please post it here.
Everyone should add everyone else as friends.
At this point, I would like to start in the next day or two.
PLEASE PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU WANT TO PLAY AND HAVE THE TIME TO GET TURNS IN IN A TIMELY MANNER!
Once we start, make sure we create games with the max time allotment so we don't have anyone running out of time.
Please define Berkut Standard Time.
As always, I am in the NZ timezone, which obviously will impact my turn around times. I will let Berkut and Haps judge whether or not that is acceptable (since they have both played me).
In other news, I will be relocating back around March next year, so will be in Denmark going forward...
I am mostly worried about people just not playing for days on end, not turn around time per se.
Languish has always been a global thing, it is part of its charm!
Need TS names for:
CountDeMoney (UNKNOWN)
Baron (UNKNOWN)
Tamas (UNKNOWN)
Delerium (UNKNOWN)
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on November 25, 2016, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 04:16:46 PM
Default is:
+1 Influcence for US Player
Optional Cards
No Chinese Civil War.
Traditional is +2 IPs for US. Is there a specific reason we aren't using that?
Yes - that is what the WBC tournament used, and since one of our default tie breakers is that the US wins tie games, I think the idea is to make it a tougher choice to take the US.
The US winning on a tie is not worth 1 IP at startup. I would gladly lose ties in exchange for 1 IP.
I am slimkt
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 11:28:44 PM
Languish has always been a global thing, it is part of its charm!
IDK. I have always considered it a Hungarian thing that has been overrun by dirty foreigners.
Quote from: Berkut on November 25, 2016, 11:29:20 PM
Need TS names for:
CountDeMoney (UNKNOWN)
Baron (UNKNOWN)
Tamas (UNKNOWN)
Delerium (UNKNOWN)
Generated a Playdek account. CountDeMoney is now active.
So we just need Baron and Del. Anyone have them as friends already?
As of two minutes ago, I am vonmoltke.
I'm sorry, I have to pull out, severe time constraints in the near future...
:mad:
So....we need another for a even 12...
Quote from: Berkut on November 27, 2016, 02:30:48 PM
So....we need another for a even 12...
What about a bye?
Byes don't really work with pool play.
If we don't find another, I will re-work it a bit to work with 11.
I'll bail for the week and just get into the next tourney, 'K?
I could play in the tournament if it helped, although i'm not that great at the game.
Glad we cleared that up.
I think we should have started the first tourney with 4-6 people. That's ambitious enough for Languish :D
Declare Lettow the winner and start the next one.
I rescind my offer to play- It doesn't seem to have helped, and I have other things I should be doing. It was mostly a humanitarian effort so that CdM might finally get to play a boardgame.
OK, so it looks like we are down to ten, which is a workable number in any case. We can do two pools of 5, and work from there.
OK, so this looks like kind of a cool format for a ten "team" tournament.
Round Robin #1:
Two pools of 5, A and B. Everyone plays everyone else once, and we rank by W/L record.
A1
A2
A3
A4
A5
B1
B2
B3
B4
B5
Then for round 2, we eliminate A4, A5, B4, and B5.
We play an outher Round Robin, but you only play the teams from the other Pool, you don't play your pools teams again. But you do retain your record against those teams, and we see who has the highest overall win total a champion.
Example:
A1: 4-0
A2: 3-1
A3: 2-2
A4: 1-3
A5: 0-4
B1: 3-1
B2: 3-1
B3: 2-2
B4: 1-3
B5: 1-3
For Round 1, the top three from each advance, and play a round robin against the other pool only.
A1 v B3
A2 v B2
A3 v B1
A1 v B2
A2 v B1
A3 v B3
A1 v B1
A2 v B3
A3 v B2
The key here is that each of them go into this second round starting with the record they finished the first round with but only against the actual teams that made it to the second round. So A1 would be 2-0 to start, A2 would be 1-1, etc., etc.
This gives everyone who advances games against everyone else who advances, and you get a result that is nearly a ten team round robin.
As we stand now, with our current rankings, we would have:
A1: Habbaku
A2: solmyr
A3:Berkut
A4: Nels
A5:Drakken
B1: mkiefte
B2: Tamas
B3: sbr
B4: bogh
B5: baron
Format for round 1 would be 1 game against each opponent in your pool, random sides, +2 for the USA, optional cards. Ties go to the US player.
Since this is Round Robin, there isn't any need for Round 1 for me to assign games. Just start up a game against each of the other players in your pool, and post in here the ID# of the game, and who is playing.
If desired, I will put together a four team "losersGIANTLOSERSOFLOSINGLOSERS" single elim tournament for the Round 1 losers. :P
So it's one game per player or two (one for each side)? If yes, what is the expected number of parallel games we are supposed to run? I don't think I can reasonably handle more than 4 games and expect myself to remember what I wanted to do when I get Berkut's turn after 4 days of silence :P
One game per player, and you can run as many concurrently as you think you can handle, but I think at least two at once would be good.
Whichever one of you creates it first post the game number, and the other can simply accept once they are ready to start. I would think everyone should be able to get two going however within the next couple of days.
So random sides, then?
Correct.
Optionally, if both players agree, they can bid for sides. But I think the conventional wisdom is that +2 US is very well balanced. I don't think I would be interested in taking the US at +1, or taking the USSR at +3 (although the differences there are probably small enough that card luck vastly trumps them).
Wins against Teddy HAB should be weighted.
Summary, for those who want to skip the tournament format crap:
For this round we are playing in two pools of 5 players. Goal is to win as many games as possible within your pool, each player will play 4 games, 1 game against each common opponent in your pool!
Default is +2 US influence, random sides, optional cards, no Chinese Civil War.
If you want to play something different, that is between you and your opponent!
Pool A: Habbaku, solmyr, Berkut, Nels, Drakken
Pool B: mkiefte, Tamas, sbr, bogh, Baron
Any player can create the game, but don't accept until you are ready to start playing. In order to get through this in a timely fashion, everyone should play at least two games at once.
Please create a separate post in this thread for each game created including the player names and game ID. Then update that post with the results, including who won, score, and type of victory.
bogh (US) vs. mkiefte (USSR)
Game ID #147967
bogh (US) vs Tamas (USSR)
Game ID #147974
sbr, I would be happy to concede our friendly, and start the proper game
Quote from: Tamas on November 29, 2016, 04:26:47 PM
sbr, I would be happy to concede our friendly, and start the proper game
Sounds good.
I extend the same offer to Habs, to concede so we may begin.
Works for me.
Habbaku (US) vs. Lord_Drakken (USSR)
Game ID# 148136
sbr (USSR) vs. bogh (US)
GAme ID# 147972
Berkut (US) vs. Habbaku (USSR)
Game ID# 144104
Quote from: Habbaku on November 29, 2016, 10:10:52 PM
Berkut (US) vs. Habbaku (USSR)
Game ID# 144104
LOL...no.
:lol: At least give him a fair chance to make it to the qualifying round, Hab.
We are in Turn 8 of that game, and as the USSR he has Europe wrapped up tight. Every BG country has at least 2 IPs greater than needed for control with France at 15-21.
All I have to do is somehow not let Europe score ever again, and I might have a shot!
I do dominate everything else but the Middle East...
There are a couple of ways you can still win that one, yeah. My win condition is either having one of us play Europe Scoring or simply hold out until Final Scoring. I think the only way that happens is if you successfully pitch Europe Scoring...
Or we get enough scores to get me to +7 and I get Wargames...
Monster!
Berkut (USSR) vs. Habbaku (US)
Game ID# 148175
sbr (US) vs. Tamas (USSR)
Game ID #148122
Solmyr (US) vs. Nels (USSR)
Game ID #148315
I can play quickly... I'm going to play two games at once, then the other two games. I have invitations for all 4 games. Solmyr will be one of my first two.
Sorry guys, I have been moving in and not checking the thread. I'll get at least one game set up tonight.
Berkut(USSR) vs. Nels (US)
Game ID #148160
sbr (USSR) vs mkiefte (US)
Game ID# 148064
Or, I'll play 4 at once. It's all good. ;)
Created all four of my games. I think I can handle all four at once. :P
#148686 - #148689
I can't do a one-day game as I'm currently travelling in some backwater developing nation.
When you create a game, make sure you create it with the max time allocated to it, 45 days I think.
Yeah, I wasn't sure what to put for that setting so I chose one day. I'm open to whatever, though.
Quote from: Berkut on December 01, 2016, 12:40:49 AM
When you create a game, make sure you create it with the max time allocated to it, 45 days I think.
Now you tell me... <_<
Yeah, 1 day only works if you are going to basically play a live game.
One day has got to be the worst time limit.
Anyway, try again with 45 days.
Solmyr (US) vs. Habbaku (USSR)
Game ID #148314
I got Red Scared right off the bat, so we know how this one will go.
Edit: Predictably, USSR dominates the world by turn 5 and wins on scoring.
Drakken (US) vs. Solmyr (USSR)
Game ID #148344
vm I refused your intive and sent you a new one because you had 1 day set as limit
FYI, I'll be out of touch for the weekend (Bay of Islands, here we come) but will return more powerful than you could ever imagine.
vonmoltke (US) vs. Tamas (USSR)
Game ID #148843
Sorry I didnt get any plays in yesterday. Had my sons volleyball banquet last night, and they won the state title this year, so it went on FOREVER. Then I fell asleep while opening Hearthstone packs...so tonight.
Quote from: Berkut on December 01, 2016, 12:50:28 AM
Yeah, 1 day only works if you are going to basically play a live game.
What was totally non-obvious on the setup screen is that this was the time limit for
the entire game. I thought it was an action timer.
Nels (US) vs. Drakken (USSR)
Game #148137
The other two have been mentioned.
Drakken (US) vs. Berkut (USSR)
Game #149403
Well I just got stroked in my game with mkiefte. I am USSR, T5 I headline Lone Gunman he puts out 5 Year Plan. The random draw is Defectors, cancelling my own Headline. :lmfao:
Lost against Habs - DEFCON suicide.
Nels wins by forfeit on T10. On T9 I had a 7VP lead and Wargames, but he had the SC giving him enough VP to survive. Went downhill from there.
I was never so happy to see 4 scoring cards in my hand. T9 went from 7 USSR to I think 10? US. Chernobyl in EU to start T10. Earlier USSR lead of 18. Wild game.
Truth be told, I am considering retiring from the tournament. I am no contest if I lose by DEFCON-suicide or losing a 18VP lead.
FWIW, the board position wasn't as favorable as the 18 VPs indicated. Decent lead, then wham, Decol headline and Afr scoring first round, and ouch, I was in trouble. The board in general favored me, so there's no shame in the loss after 18. I actually felt like I was in the driver's seat, then I saw 18, and then there was the turn where I couldn't prevent a wargames win if you drew it and I didn't have anything in my headline to help. I actually thought you played great from behind in board position. Yeah, if you were telling me this, I might not feel great about it, either. But had I lost that game, I was going to be really disappointed, because I thought I had a strong position that kept leaking VPs.
Quote from: Drakken on December 07, 2016, 01:15:10 AM
Truth be told, I am considering retiring from the tournament. I am no contest if I lose by DEFCON-suicide or losing a 18VP lead.
I've been playing this game a long time, and *I* lost by Defcon suicide.
Shit happens. Don't worry about it.
PLaying Habs sucks, because he rarely makes mistakes. But you learn a lot by playing him.
The irony is, I was surprisingly holding my ground good against Habs. :(
My biggest weakness is, that I find myself out-dominated and locked out on the majority of the board by Mid-game. When Asia or Middle East is dominated, there is not much left to do than to hope for the upset Event card. And the number of times I have lost to Habs by DEFCON-suicide, I am not sure I am learning that much.
Lost to Habs, because being Red Scared by him in turn 1 is just going to be downhill from there.
Surprisingly, I held out against Nels longer than I thought, but it's not gonna help.
Quote from: Drakken on December 07, 2016, 01:47:55 AM
The irony is, I was surprisingly holding my ground good against Habs. :(
My biggest weakness is, that I find myself out-dominated and locked out on the majority of the board by Mid-game. When Asia or Middle East is dominated, there is not much left to do than to hope for the upset Event card. And the number of times I have lost to Habs by DEFCON-suicide, I am not sure I am learning that much.
Well, I think the defcon suicide, t least for me, happens because I lose track of my hand, the number of cards, and the number of cards that have to be played. This is exacerbated badly by the ability to have a bunch of games all going at once.
So one thing I started doing is that every single game I open up, the FIRST THING I DO is click on the turn track, and see how many more cards I have to play this turn, then compare that to my hand and decide which cards will be played this turn, which cards will be spaced (if any) and which cards will be held.
Every
Single
Time
I open up an ongoing game.
It isn't a perfect solution, but it has reduced the problem greatly. I just defcon suicided my otherwise competitive game withs Habs anyway, because I violated my own rule. I knew I had the dangerous card in hand, I had a plan to hold it, then I opened up our game as the third in a list of four games I was playing, thought "Oh, I need to get this influence here, I have this three Ops enemy card and UN Intervention, so I will just play that...." and forgot that I just forced myself into a play of a defcon card, even though I had planned out the turn already. Because I didn't go through my mantra of comparing number of plays to my number of cards that particular time.
You guys play around with DEFCON suicide cards in a far different manner than I do.
I identify potential DEFCON suicide cards (Lone Gunman, Grain Sales to Soviets, Duck and Cover, CIA, etc.) in my hand. I then come up with a plan to get rid of it ASAP or make sure I have a safety valve (China Card, SALT Negotiations, Aldrich Ames, possibly Quagmire/Bear Trap if desperate) if I get hit with a discard or something.
Often times, it's better to just let the opponent have the battleground coup at the start of the turn rather than risk holding the cancer card forever.
WEll, yeah, that goes into what I said - you have to have a plan.
A lot of times that plan is "Hold it, because I know I can safely...".
But what trips me up is that I then FORGET said plan, or rather, I forget that THIS game is the game where said plan was in place, do something else, an suddenly my plan is screwed. Hence the dogma of always looking at my card count and rounds to be played as the first thing I do when opening up a game. Because I am old, and becoming forgetful. More forgetful, I should say.
I guess forgetful does describe it. I'm having a hard time thinking of a situation in which I would play UN Intervention as event and not use it to get rid of CIA. :hmm:
Listen to Berkut.
I find it's actually a bit hard to play 3 games especially with such time zone gaps as I have now. The Berkut Method is absolutely critical for me in keeping any semblance of coherent play.
Quote from: Habbaku on December 07, 2016, 11:14:45 AM
I guess forgetful does describe it. I'm having a hard time thinking of a situation in which I would play UN Intervention as event and not use it to get rid of CIA. :hmm:
Of course.
If I am looking at my hand, and I have CIA and UN Intervention and N cards to be played in N-1 rounds, it is pretty damn clear what has to be done. Either UN Intervention is played as Ops and CIA is held, or UN is played for CIA.
That is blindingly obvious.
But it is only obvious if you actually look at your hand!When I have several games going, I don't always do that, or I think I already know what is in this hand, but I am actually thinking of another hand in another game.
I suspect that you, in particular, are much, much better at the mental gymnastics necessary to keep these multiple games straight in your head. I mean that sincerely - I've been playing a lot of games with you for a very, very long time, and I've been incredibly impressed at your ability to simply remember things I cannot - what cards have been played already, when, etc, etc., etc.
I don't think most people can do that even close to as well as you can. I *know* I cannot.
So I have to have this process that I follow every single time which forces me to re-evaluate the hand I just opened without making assumptions about what I think I remember about it.
I've gotten a LOT better about it, which is why I only accidentally def con myself in 10% of the games I play instead of 30%. :P
Fair enough. :P
Yeah, with 3 games going, I MUST methodically go through my cards, check the number of rounds left, which regions scored, that kind of thing, then re-formulate my plans. Of course, it is much quicker than do plan it out the very first time a turn starts, but still. I may not confuse things up even if I didn't, but with multiple games going, it did happen in the past. :)
Nels (USSR) def Solmyr (US) in game 148315, turn 9 VP win.
Solmyr/US had horrible luck. Red Scare on turn 1. Median coup roll was probably a 2, and mine a 4 or 5 in the early game. I don't think I missed an important roll until mid-game, and after that opening, well, they weren't so important. I was able to think that defcon disaster or Chernobyl/Europe was my only way to lose by turn 6. Those of you who know me will be mildly surprised that I went for an earlier VP win. Berkut and Habbaku wouldn't be surprised if I would put 30 into Poland and just wait out a win. ;) It wasn't quite that bad this time, and for all I can tell, Solmyr outplayed me from an untenable position. Europe scored only once in the game, and Asia/ME scored 3 and 2, or the other way around. Central and South America were red, South America had no US presence, and I don't know that Central America had any, either. No gambit worked, not coups, not realignments, not forking me with card play. Brutal game.
Yeah, by turn 6 I was delaying the inevitable. The only reason I didn't lose at that point was because I dropped SA Scoring with Ask Not. Then I got dealt both Asia and ME Scoring next turn, of course.
Continuing in that terrible position is still worthwhile, mind. Sometimes, you will draw 2 1-value cards, a 2-value card, and 4 scoring cards on the turn 4 deal and still have your opponent DEFCON suicide on turn 9. :yeah:
Quote from: Habbaku on December 07, 2016, 06:13:24 PM
Continuing in that terrible position is still worthwhile, mind. Sometimes, you will draw 2 1-value cards, a 2-value card, and 4 scoring cards on the turn 4 deal and still have your opponent DEFCON suicide on turn 9. :yeah:
:mad:
mkiefte (US) beat me (USSR) by VP on T6.
So to summarize, I lost to Habbaku and Nels and won against Drakken. Game against Berkut is going to be sometime in the far future because he cannot handle multiple games. :P
Not the FAR future!
I can't find the post which lists what people's TS handles are.
I'm down to one game right now, so if I'm on your list of opponents, then start up a game.
I'm 3-0, myself; just waiting on my official game with Nels.
We should really create a TS post-game Analysis thread, where we can post our moves and learn.
Quote from: Drakken on December 08, 2016, 11:42:09 AM
We should really create a TS post-game Analysis thread, where we can post our moves and learn.
Please do :)
Quote from: Berkut on December 08, 2016, 08:51:21 AM
Not the FAR future!
Currently we get in about 4 card plays per day. :P
Well, sbr beat me convincingly (VPs turn 5). He got a commanding lead early and I was scrambling just to keep the game alive the last couple of turns.
...In which Nels learns about Che.
Don't recall the game #, but Berkut (USSR) has just beaten me with Wargames on T8. Earlier in the game, Che couped in Africa, which surprised me, because I can't read. Then Jeff headlined Che and couped in Africa an S. America again, followed with S. Am. and Afr. scoring, followed by Wargames. I almost headlined We Will Bury You instead of Papa John, and I wish I shoulda, to prevent his BG coup on round 1. Ya larn sumpn every day, if you're lucky. I thought I had the edge. There was a wargames risk, but the VPs were at I think 2 to start the turn and I think I had a good long game position. Possibly I didn't read how to protect a lead well, or maybe I didn't have the lead I thought I had.
I think I got rather lucky with the draw. I drew two scoring cards, one of which I already had the domination in, and the other Che was able to let me sneak away from you.
I had, as well, Glasnost (another 2 VPs) and Bear Trap. I think you were pretty doomed once the cards came out. But I knew I had to win there, long term board position probably favored you...
Berkut, you forgot my game with bog: #147974. I am USSR, as usual. Thanks!
BTW my status report so far:
I am doing quite badly against sbr, pretty badly against bogh, and abysmally against vonmoltke.
Quote from: Maladict on December 08, 2016, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: Drakken on December 08, 2016, 11:42:09 AM
We should really create a TS post-game Analysis thread, where we can post our moves and learn.
Please do :)
Is there a way to extract game history to txt, rather than copying it them by hand from the game UI?
vonmoltke (US) vs. mkiefte (USSR) #153693
I'm hoping that's one of you guys. Otherwise I just started a game with a random.
It's me. :)
Oh yeah baron and I started our game as well.
vonmoltke (US) vs sbr (USSR)
Game ID: 154032
Yeah, got my last two games started:
Berkutt (US) vs Lord_Drakken(USSR)
Game ID: 149403
vs Solmyr77: 154554
Errrh....solmyr...was that game I just defcon suicided in our old game we were trying to finish, or was that our tournament game?
Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
Errrh....solmyr...was that game I just defcon suicided in our old game we were trying to finish, or was that our tournament game?
Is it always this awkward here?
It helps not to make direct eye contact.
Quote from: mkiefte on December 11, 2016, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
Errrh....solmyr...was that game I just defcon suicided in our old game we were trying to finish, or was that our tournament game?
Is it always this awkward here?
It is not too late to walk back and away. :shutup:
:lmfao:
Can we ban nels and mkiefte from the regular forum?
You know...to protect them?
Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2016, 10:21:31 PM
Can we ban nels and mkiefte from the regular forum?
You know...to protect them?
You didn't think this through, did you? :lol:
Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
Errrh....solmyr...was that game I just defcon suicided in our old game we were trying to finish, or was that our tournament game?
I'm fine with it being our tournament game.
Quote from: Solmyr on December 12, 2016, 07:19:37 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
Errrh....solmyr...was that game I just defcon suicided in our old game we were trying to finish, or was that our tournament game?
I'm fine with it being our tournament game.
I am sure you are, but I checked and it was started prior to the tournament, as I had thought. Whew.
sbr had a great plan up his sleeves: as soviets I grabbed West Germany from him earlier. BUT, Truman Doctrine was still in play, and he ended the previous turn by removing my control of West Germany (I had 6 influence there), and he headlined Truman Doctrine next turn.
His problem was, that not only due to space race I got to see this before I made my choice, but I also had ABM Treaty in my hand, allowing a spending of ops before he could play Truman.
My careless spending of points saved by blind luck :lol:
:mad:
mkiefte, inviting you to a friendly.
habbaku, our tournament game is up.
Drakken is pretty much kicking my ass...
Quote from: Berkut on December 12, 2016, 10:56:20 PM
Drakken is pretty much kicking my ass...
Don't worry, I still have 7 rounds left to DEFCON-suicide.
Well, mkiefte war-gamed me out of my misery on turn 8. Good game, but ultimately he prevailed.
That makes me 0-2.
Quote from: bogh on December 13, 2016, 01:48:39 AM
Well, mkiefte war-gamed me out of my misery on turn 8. Good game, but ultimately he prevailed.
That makes me 0-2.
You had one of the shittiest hands I've ever seen that last turn.
Can everyone check the front page and validate the results?
Any completed games not recorded there?
mkiefte (US) vs. Tamas (USSR - yeah, I know) game ID #155034
Quote from: mkiefte on December 13, 2016, 07:26:03 AM
Quote from: bogh on December 13, 2016, 01:48:39 AM
Well, mkiefte war-gamed me out of my misery on turn 8. Good game, but ultimately he prevailed.
That makes me 0-2.
You had one of the shittiest hands I've ever seen that last turn.
Meh, I think that just accelerated my demise, didn't cause it.
Nels and I finished our last with a VP victory by his US in turn 6. So, 3-1 for me.
Drakken just destroyed me on Turn 4.
:yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:
Berkut was basically zugzwang on T4. He found himself stuck, and had no choice but to play a SC on Soviet-controlled Central America, giving me 26VP total.
It was a good game, though. I think this is a situation in which cards simply didn't go your way.
Well, my last card was Asia Scoring, so that could have made it 31 points!
Just played a game against Moquin. I was cruising as the US. (This doesn't end well.) Tear Down This Wall to clear E. Germany of everything except 1 US influence. All other EU BG's US controlled. Turn 9 I draw: KAL (yay!) something something something.
Headlines are KAL and Ames. Oops. Two of my something somethings are Bury and Gunman. Can't... space... Gah!
Exhibition, but I finally beat Habs - by 1VP with Wargames on T8.
Makes me all emotional inside. :cry:
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 22, 2016, 12:00:11 AM
I'm in.
Baron? Haven't seen any updates on any of your games...how are things going?
He and I are on T4.
And I just won when Baron DEFCON suicided on AR7 of T4.
Game ID: 154032
Apparently I don't completely understand the game mechanics. :Embarrass:
If DEFCON hits 1 during your turn you lose, no matter who actually caused it to happen. Playing a card (like Lone Gunman as US) that gives OPs to your opponent on your turn at DEFCON 2 is suicide, assuming you have influence in any Battleground that can be couped.
EDIT: https://twilightstrategy.com/2011/12/12/general-strategy-defcon/
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 15, 2016, 10:40:20 PM
Apparently I don't completely understand the game mechanics. :Embarrass:
:lol:
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 15, 2016, 10:40:20 PM
Apparently I don't completely understand the game mechanics. :Embarrass:
As sbr explained, if DEFCON 1 is reached during a player's turn, that player loses regardless how DEFCON 1 is reached.
Obviously, if you coup a BG when on DEFCON 2 or play a card that degrades to DEFCON 1, you lose.
More subtly, that also means that if you play a card that allows your opponent to use Ops to, say, coup a BG you have influence in and/or degrade to DEFCON 1, you lose as well because the degrade was done on your turn. Some cards, like Lone Gunman/CIA Created, Grain Sales to Russia, or Tear Down this Wall are absolutely made to trigger such situations.
You might want to read this:
https://twilightstrategy.com/2011/12/12/general-strategy-defcon/
Bear in mind, we ALL DEFCON-suicide (well, maybe not Habs). It is part of the game and always something to keep in mind when you examine how you will manage your turn cards, and it is absolutely part of a player's strategy to put his opponent into a shitty brinksmanship situation. When beginning I stupidly made myself DEFCON-suicide while leading games, because I was not careful enough or not understanding enough the ramifications of my cards.
Now the game comes with 'DEFCON warning', which will trigger if you are about to play a card that risks you losing the game. If you get DEFCON warning appearing, consider VERY carefully what you are about to do.
EDIT: Inviting you to a game so you may spar against me, Baron. I tend to play multiple turns per day.
Quote from: Berkut on November 29, 2016, 10:33:11 AM
If desired, I will put together a four team "losersGIANTLOSERSOFLOSINGLOSERS" single elim tournament for the Round 1 losers. :P
I vote Aye on this, especially since you may end up among the giant losers. :lol:
Oh yeah, I am odds on for that grouping for sure!
Seriously? Five fucking scoring cards between us in one turn? :bleeding:
Seemed excessive.
Won my game against Baron. One game left to go against Tamas.
Well, I am officially eliminated. :weep:
So, we are getting to see some results!
In pool A, Habbaku and Nels have secured the first two advancing spots, and Drakken has locked down his spot in the "Secondary Winners" round.
Berkut and solmyr are fighting for the last spot - whoever wins their game will advance, and the other will join Drakken in the "Round For Those Who Are Awesome At Something I Am Sure But Not Twilight Struggle".
Pool B is a lot more blurry, mainly because in a shocking, impossible to predict turn of events Tamas has yet to record a single completed game.
But mkiefte has secured a spot, and after that it is still anyone's pool for the last two spots...
Tamas and I are on T8 of a brutal cockfight.
Though our availability is so opposite that we rarely get more than 2-3 card plays in in a day.
Yeah shut up B, I am playing guys in the different end of the Atlantic:p
That said, just won my game against Baron. Good game!
Forum noobs are kicking ass. I thought you guys could actually play these games :P
Quote from: Maladict on December 19, 2016, 09:56:45 AM
Forum noobs are kicking ass. I thought you guys could actually play these games :P
What is the world gave you THAT idea???
Habs is the only true pro among us....
Berkut, you mentioned something about feasting on the entrails of defeated opponents. When do we get to do that?
Sbr set me up for a nice easy chain reaction with the Che event. Only thing that could prevent it was me rolling a 1. And GUESS WHAT I DID
You are not going to start complaining about your luck are you :lol:
For the record the 1 was on the second coup.
Mkiefte won by Wargames on turn 10. Very well done! I had a great start and it made me lazy. Lost the initiative way too early and mkiefte made sure I never recovered it. A thorough beating.
I was very happy to see Wargames in my hand. You almost had me.
Interesting.
That win by mkiefte means:
1. Mkiefte advances, but that was already true.
2. sbr will finish at least 2-2. Almost certainly in, UNLESS
1. He loses to Tamas, and
2. Tamas loses to Bogh, and
3. Bogh beats baron
If that happens, we could end up with
4-0
2-2
2-2
2-2
0-4
But only three can advance...hmmm.
Lets see if I cant manage to loose at least one of my open games!
Both are pretty close and feel like they winner will be found in final scoring.
As we wait for the Special Olympics to begin, I am more and more getting a hold of things. My TS ELO rating online has now climbed over 1400, I haven't DEFCON-suicided for a while, plus I seem to be able to regularly hold my own against Habs.
Cue Rocky 4's Training Montage. :showoff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu00RiPjaa4
Tamas has been vanquished. Wargames in turn 9.
To be fair you had already very much beaten me. You just out me out of my misery.
With abe its a real nail-biter.
So, just three games left, all of which have advancement implications.
One game left for pool A, me and sbr are in Late War, he has a moderate lead, but I have pretty good position. I think that is a toss up. Winner advances along with Nels and Habs.
Two games left in pool B.
Tamas vs sbr
bogh versus baron
Both matter quite a bit.
The game between sbr and Tamas is very important. If sbr wins, Tamas is out and sbr is in.
If sbr wins, sbr is in. Then Tamas and bogh will both be watching the outcome of the bogh-baron match. If baron wins, there would be three players all 1-3 with one open spot between them. SO BARON IS ACTUALLY NOT ELIMINATED YET, even though he is 0-3, depending on tie breaks...
If Tamas wins, sbr and Tamas are both 2-2, and it comes down (again) to the bogh-baron match. If bogh wins, we will have three 2-2 players wanting two spots. If baron wins, then it is simple, Tamas will advance.
Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2016, 11:14:26 AM
One game left for pool A, me and sbr are in Late War, he has a moderate lead, but I have pretty good position. I think that is a toss up. Winner advances along with Nels and Habs.
You mean me, and it's not gonna be a toss up if I keep rolling 1s. :P No to mention this is Late War, so you have the advantage.
So solmyr, not sbr.
The US generally has a slight LW advantage, but you are up 8 VPs. Or 5?
I have domination in Europe and Asia. It will come down to how the scoring cards come out, and IF they come out. Or if one of us makes a bad mistake. I don't think there have been any real obvious ones so far - its been a good game mostly.
Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2016, 01:15:50 PM
So solmyr, not sbr.
The US generally has a slight LW advantage, but you are up 8 VPs. Or 5?
I have domination in Europe and Asia. It will come down to how the scoring cards come out, and IF they come out. Or if one of us makes a bad mistake. I don't think there have been any real obvious ones so far - its been a good game mostly.
I'm up 3 VP, which is basically nothing. Europe and Asia scoring are still around, while I dominate ME and SA which were already scored.
I am out touch for a few days, glamping in Northland for Christmas...
Ditto, but in NoVa.
No worries. Have awesome holidays.
Just won my game against sbr, on end of game vp tally
Yep good game Tamas. I was fighting uphill from the T1AR2 coup in France and every time I thought I might do something productive you stymied me perfectly.
IIRC sbr fortified Italy very much, but then put a single point on France. Seemed like a gamble worth having.
I sqqeaked out a Turn 10 win against solmyr.
Going into the turn I think we were straight up tied, but I had Asia and Europe, along with Central America and Africa as toss ups, and he controlled South America. He headlined Red Scare/Purge, which was bad, but I had some decent events so I didn't think I would need to do a lot of ops plays.
I played CIA early to get a look at his cards, and saw he had Asia and Africa scoring.
He grabbed domination with South African Unrest, but I had Colonial Rear Guards so I was able to get it back to even.
Solmyr dropped two points back into Africa to get back to domination, but I knew we were down to three rounds, and two of those were scoring. So I played Star Wars to take Bear Trap out of discard and play it, which would force him to discard next round, and give me three rounds of play while he was forced to just play the last two scores, one of which would be a bunch of VPs for me, and the other a push at best, then I should have a comfortable lead going into final with Asia and Europe and Central America.
Solmyr resigned, and I slide into the next round on a prayer. A really, really good game, thanks!
The game between the baron and me is in the final stages and it is pretty tense. I've got a commanding board position, dominating or outright controlling several regions (Europe being the only place that leans US), but have a point deficit of 8, making a Wargames win a very distinct possibility. Barring that, the late game bias favouring the US should start tipping the board position back.
Update on the bogh/baron game?
Any idea what a potential 3-way tie breaker would look like? Not that I am doubting Baron's ability to win, just curious.
Ive been scratching my head on that, to be honest. I've considered every permutation, but nothing is coming to mind. It is a "perfect" three way tie, if bogh wins.
Go baron!
I've just played my last card, baron has one play left in turn 10. He is up 12 points as the us, but it's going to be pretty tight I think...
Quote from: Berkut on January 02, 2017, 11:49:01 PM
Ive been scratching my head on that, to be honest. I've considered every permutation, but nothing is coming to mind. It is a "perfect" three way tie, if bogh wins.
Make them do tie-breaking games. Make each of them replay the other two.
Used to run chess tournaments -- happened all the time. We would give them time limits though.
I am ok with that, but you know what they are going to do...they will all go 1-1 against each other again.
:bowler:
I won it in final scoring.
Quote from: Berkut on January 03, 2017, 09:28:10 AM
I am ok with that, but you know what they are going to do...they will all go 1-1 against each other again.
One game only, sudden death, 7-days time limit.
OK, so here is the deal.
sbr, bogh, and Tamas will each play another game against each other. The three of them are playing for two spots.
If you win two games, you are in.
If you go 1-1, then each 1-1 player will be ranked against other 1-1 players, with tie breaks going to:
1. Players who win (in any way) earliest in the game
2. US players
Goal is to wrap this up in 1 week.
Advancing players will retain their W-L record from the first round going into round 2 - these games only count to decide which 2 players will advance.
I will give 24 hours for discussion if needed. Thoughts?
I see no other way, although I don't think one week is enough with the time zone differences. I have posted my invites
We will see how we go, but otherwise I am sure we can gentlemanly agree on solution? I dont mind going into the looser pile if required.
Well, I think the "1 week" part is not carved in stone. If we need to take a couple days to wrap up a game that is fine, but lets TRY t move it along quickly.
My game with bogh is on, number 171835. I am the US, for the first time in like a year, so it won't end well.
Quote from: Berkut on January 03, 2017, 04:50:41 PM
Well, I think the "1 week" part is not carved in stone. If we need to take a couple days to wrap up a game that is fine, but lets TRY t move it along quickly.
Absolutely - though my weirdo timezone doesn't help.
I'll move back to Europe in a couple of months...so it will be better then!
Does anybody here know who critmass is on the TS server?
Quote from: Nels on January 03, 2017, 06:33:27 PM
Does anybody here know who critmass is on the TS server?
You play with other people, Nels?
I'm hurt.
But I only play Socialist Governments every turn against you. It's a smothering sort of relationship. ;)
My US beat bogh's USSR by VP on T7.
It was a crazy game. I don't remember all the details right now, but by T3 I was at ~15 VPs but due to some unfortunate cards, luck and play by me bogh had Control of Europe. Thankfully the Europe scoring card didn't come up and I was able to finally get enough VPs to win before it did.
gg bogh
Yeah, good game. I was pretty sure that one was in the bag, but the points keep trickling in for you...
You guys almost done?
I can only speak of my game against Tamas but we are on AR4 of Turn 2. On days I can/remember to make a play at 4AM before work we can play 2 cards each in 24 hours; that doesn't happen every day. Our weekends don't seem to line up very well either.
Again I can't speak for Tamas' match against bogh, but Tamas and my match is likely going to last for weeks. I understand that this is sub-optimal and I am open to any sort of solution that might speed things up.
Just to be clear I don't mean to be critical or judgmental of anyone, but I am drunk and sometimes it just slips out (that's what she said?).
Where is Tamas-bogh?
End of Turn 6 IIRC. I have had him on the ropes twice but he has managed powerful recoveries.
I am replying to moves within minutes whenever I am able to. Will try to be more responsive during weekends, those were my slow times, oddly.
I would be surprised if the game goes on for to much longer - eventually Tamas will be able to push me over the edge...
Won the game against bogh on points.
Was an interesting game. I got a surprising early lead as US, but then bogh really started rolling and I totally lost the initiative.
That's until he couldn't manage to roll a success on Bear Trap for almost an entire turn. The game was mine to lose from there I think.
So bogh lost both games?
That means the remaining game doesn't matter. Both Tamas and sbr will advance regardless who wins.
Round 1 Results:
Pool A
Habbaku 3-1 (1-1)
Nels 3-1 (1-1)
Berkut 2-2 (1-1)
-------------------
Somlyr 1-3
Drakken 1-3
Pool B
mkiefte 4-0 (2-0)
tamas 2-2 (1-1)
sbr 2-2 (0-2)
------------------------
bogh 2-2
baron 0-4
Champions Round Pairings:
mkiefte (2-0) (3-2)
- Habbaku Win
- Berkut Loss
- Nels Loss
Habbaku (1-1) (3-2)
- mkiefte Loss
- Tamas Win
- sbr Win
Nels (1-1) (3-2)
- mkiefte Win
- Tamas Loss
- sbr Win
Berkut (1-1) (2-3)
- mkiefte Win
- Tamas Loss
- sbr 178277 Loss
Tamas (1-1) (3-2)
- Habbaku Loss
- Berkut Win
- Nels Win
sbr (0-2) (1-4)
- Habbaku Loss
- Berkut 178277 Win
- Nels Loss
Room For Improvement Round Pairings:
1.Pool A #3 (Solmyr) vs Pool B #4 (baron)
2.PoolA #4 (Drakken) vs Pool B #3 (bogh) (bogh wins!)
Winners play for the title!
I dont understand your pairings table.
So the idea of this format is that the first round has everyone playing everyone else in their pool.
You take the top three from each pool to advance to the second round.
In the second round, everyone plays everyone from THE OTHER POOL, but only those who actually advanced.
Further, they keep the record they had from the first round, but only against those that they played who made it into the second round with them.
Then, by the end of the second round, everyone who has advanced will have played everyone else who had advanced, and their record of W-L will be only against other advancers.
It is basically a way of doing round robin, but you don't have to play *everyone* in the tournament - just those from your pool, and those who advance from the other pools.
So I advanced, but I am not going to play Habbaku and Nels, because I already played them.
I am going to play sbr, Tamas, and mkiefte - the player in Round 2 who I did not play in Round 1.
Once we are done with Round 2, we will all be ranked by W-L. mkiefte will be at worst 2-3, since he already has 2 wins, and sbr will be at best 3-2, since he already has 2 losses. He probably has to win all three matches to have a shot at coming in first.
Now, if you actually don't care, and just want to know who to play, the pairings table lists each player in Round 2, and who they should play a game against.
You need to play games against Habbaku, Berkut, and Nels.
Invites out to mkiefte and sbr.
I don't remember your game name Tamas...send me an invite.
Game #178152, Solmyr (USSR, yet again) vs vonmoltke (US)
Game started between bogh and myself.
Nels, are you Nels in the game? Berkut, are you Berkut?
Started the game against Habbaku, I am playing USSR, game ID 178621
yes, i am Nels on the TS server.
Started a game with MKiefte.
SBR, invite me to another whenever you're ready.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 13, 2017, 01:17:29 PM
Started a game with MKiefte.
You should probably concede now.
I rolled Soviets; it is you who should concede.
Quote from: Habbaku on January 13, 2017, 03:17:49 PM
I rolled Soviets; it is you who should concede.
You're toast.
Win an Olympics and think you're king, eh? We will bury you.
WTH is Berkut's handle?
Berkut
sigh. Out of all you people, I have to make the most idiotic oversight when playing Habbaku.
Pro tip:
When choosing a headline card, don't pick the FIRST decent one that you notice. It might be worthwhile to look at all your cards before deciding...
I am in a fairly good position against Nels, but he can still come back.
I am just about ready to throw in the towel against Habbaku.
Berkut just doesn't play.
Won the game against Nels with a very nice streak of VP-giving cards. Good game!
Quote from: Tamas on January 16, 2017, 12:57:08 PM
I am in a fairly good position against Nels, but he can still come back.
I am just about ready to throw in the towel against Habbaku.
Berkut just doesn't play.
...this coming for the guy who finished his first round games LAST.
That was a fun game. I thought I was okay... until I wasn't. ;)
Bogh wins by resignation.
Habbaku has finally put me out of my misery.
mkiefte defeated Habakku.
Berkut you didn't note my win against Nels :p
Nels (US) and I (USSR) just started our game. #189912
Nels (USSR) won by VP on T10.
gg Nels
Those were the fastest 10 turns I've ever seen.
With VPs at USSR (Berkut) 18 at the end of Turn 7, sbr won by defcon 1.
I drew 3 defcon lowering cards. Could only get rid of 2 of them....
Quote from: Berkut on January 28, 2017, 11:37:26 PM
With VPs at USSR (Berkut) 18 at the end of Turn 7, sbr won by defcon 1.
I drew 3 defcon lowering cards. Could only get rid of 2 of them....
gg that was a fun one.
Outside of the whole DEFCON thing, what was your thoughts on the game at that point? I know I was -18VP but every scoring region was in my favor and I felt pretty good about the game but I haven't gotten that late in a game very often so I wasn't sure if I was delusional or not.
I was not feeling great - I think I would have need Wargames or some quick VP card to come up to win, or get lucky with rotating scoring where I can get a ergion to sort of square right before scoring...
Nels beat mkiefte by 5 VPs in final scoring. He controlled Japan as the Soviets.
I don't know how I feel about that strategy. I had to bury the Japan card three times.
Helluva game. We have had several really great games, recently, thanks, Michael.
Wow, that makes things really close. If I can get a win against mkiefte, then there will be several 3-2 finishers...
On that note, mkiefte's US is up by 2VP at the end of turn 6....so it is a good game so far...
In fact, Nels controlled every battleground in Asia except Taiwan which was a Battleground for the US. It meant I couldn't play the China Card.
If I hadn't held the Asia Scoring Card in Turn 10, I would have won. I tried to break Domination of Asia, but Nels piled on the IPs.
I won against sbr.
Losing against Berkut would mean a rematch against Habbaku and Nels. Might be worth it. :hmm:
I have no idea about current standings.
p. 17 on my browser.
ah, thanks.
So if you lose against Berkut and I win against him, there will be 4 of us tied for 1st place? :D
I think we need a better system for the next tourney. Maybe a direct elimination stage after group play, Football World Cup style?
I actually think this is a pretty fun system.
But then, I value it being interesting more than I value getting some kind of objective result.
If we have a tie, that means that between the 6 of us, we played 30 games of TS, and the result was that we all basically came out pretty even.
That is a hell of a lot more interesting, IMO, than finding out that Habs really is just better than everyone else...
We would need at least 50 more games to determine that.
Quote from: Berkut on January 31, 2017, 01:17:29 PM
I actually think this is a pretty fun system.
But then, I value it being interesting more than I value getting some kind of objective result.
I knew you were a liberal. Welcome, friend.
Quote from: Berkut on January 31, 2017, 01:17:29 PM
I actually think this is a pretty fun system.
But then, I value it being interesting more than I value getting some kind of objective result.
If we have a tie, that means that between the 6 of us, we played 30 games of TS, and the result was that we all basically came out pretty even.
That is a hell of a lot more interesting, IMO, than finding out that Habs really is just better than everyone else...
:thumbsup:
I prefer objective validation of my superiority.
We need 100 more games for that.
Quote from: mkiefte on January 31, 2017, 03:43:26 PM
I prefer objective validation of my superiority.
Then play better.
These might be the three shittiest luck games of TS I have ever played.
You're still holding your own in our game.
In an unrelated game, I just forgot which side I was playing and played Bear Trap in the Headline Phase. I'm the Soviets.
This is why you should not play TS on the bus.
In a completely unrelated event, I've sent some invites for new games. :P
I am pretty sure Tamas cheated, but he still gets the win....
Epic game with mkiefte which I barely squeaked out a win by 4 VPs at game end. Final scoring was a tie.
mkiefte (2-0) (3-2)
Habbaku (1-1) (3-2)
Tamas (1-1) (3-2)
Nels (1-1) (3-2)
Berkut (1-1) (2-3)
sbr (0-2) (1-4)
OK, so it looks like...
Record among the 4 tied winners, against each other:
mkiefte 2-1
Beat Habs
Beat Tamas
Lost Nels
Habs 1-2
Beat Tamas
Lost mkiefte
Lost Nels
Nels 2-1
Beat mkiefte
Beat Habs
Lost Tamas
Tamas 1-2
Beat Nels
Lost mkiefte
Lost Habs
So, looking at our 2-1 tied players (mkiefte and Nels), Nels won head to head.
I say Nels is our winner!
Quote from: Berkut on January 11, 2017, 03:48:30 PM
Champions Round Pairings:
mkiefte (2-0) (3-2)
- Habbaku Win
- Berkut Loss
- Nels Loss
Habbaku (1-1) (3-2)
- mkiefte Loss
- Tamas Win
- sbr Win
Nels (1-1) (3-2)
- mkiefte Win
- Tamas Loss
- sbr Win
Berkut (1-1) (2-3)
- mkiefte Win
- Tamas Loss
- sbr 178277 Loss
Tamas (1-1) (3-2)
- Habbaku Loss
- Berkut Win
- Nels Win
sbr (0-2) (1-4)
- Habbaku Loss
- Berkut 178277 Win
- Nels Loss
We don't go into tie breakers?
We could....or we could just start another tournament.
Do we really need a tie break to determine that Nels is better than you are, what with him beating you and all?
A single data point is hardly conclusive. :hmm:
Or restart the tournament. Whatever you want.
It is a tournament. We aren't going for "conclusive" just, "who won the tournament". :P
I would be happy to do a four person single elim tiebreaker tournament if you guys want though...? :showoff:
Any highlights or interesting strategies you guys wish to share?
Think about where all the Scoring Cards are.
Grab Battleground countries where you can.
Think about DEFCON and where you want it to be. Try to think several Rounds ahead when you're thinking about lowering DEFCON to protect your European/Asian/Middle Eastern countries.
I tend to try to push the Space Race as much as practical. Some players do the opposite and focus on Influence as much as possible instead.
Play a Scoring Card as soon as you can if you're in good shape--don't try to wait until you can squeeze a few more VPs out of it unless it's a sure thing. It usually backfires. And playing Scoring Cards in the Headline Phase is risky unless you can think of all the cards that can screw you over if your opponent headlines it.
Everything in this game is about timing -- mostly about timing your Opponents Events. Your Events often don't matter as much as those of your opponent. Making your opponent's events ineffective is usually better than maximizing your own.
Fundamentals to moving from a "good" TS player to a "very good" TS player:
1. Never be surprised by a scoring card. You should know what CAN be scored at any particular point in the game. The computer program makes this super easy.
2. In knowing #1, understand what is important NOW. If Africa just scored, why are you putting more influence into it now? Equencing is everything. You can and will lose games that you spend the majority of time "winning". Scoring only matter the moment the scoring card is played.
3. Know what it takes to shift a area. You might have domination in Europe, but if it just takes your opponent a single influence point to shift it, you are vulnerable.
4. Understand the potential combos. There aren't a lot of them, but they can be really powerful. Being able to recognize them when you get some luck to have them is critical.
5. You are playing the game to avoid your opponents events more than you are to get your own events. This is just my opinion though.
And in regards to #5 - don't over commit to avoiding an opponents event! Just because it is bad for you, *avoiding* playing it might end up costing you more than just playing it and getting it over with!
Yes/no on the idea of a mini-playoff among the four ties at 3-2?
I'd be in.
Thanks mkiefte and Berkut :)
What about final scoring? I never give it all that much thought until probably way too late, but then again how many games go the distance, right?
As the players get better, the chances of a game going to distance go up. But it is still maybe 25% of the time or so, would be my guess.
You have to be hyper aware of Wargames once you reach Late war, of course...
Quote from: Habbaku on February 06, 2017, 05:10:14 PM
I'd be in.
In to go again, or in for a mini-4 way tourney between the tied players?
Who am I kidding, you are in for either or both.
Which would you prefer?
Both.
But I figure a playoff between the top 4 is in order.
What happened to the losers bracket touney? I don't think I saw anything after Drakken resigning his game...
SO a 4 way playoff.
Ranking players by their respective win/loss against each other:
1. Nels
2. mkiefte
3. Habbaku
4. Tamas
Nels vs Tamas
mkiefte vs Habbaku
1 game, normal setup, winners meet for the title.
ok!
Quote from: Berkut on February 06, 2017, 06:24:00 PM
What happened to the losers bracket touney? I don't think I saw anything after Drakken resigning his game...
I'm still playing vonMoltke, he's slow. :P
Sure.
I'm in three different games right now though. If you start up a game with me now, my response time may be a bit slow.
Just started a game with Habbaku.
This is the one we're counting after you losing two in a row? :hmm:
Quote from: Habbaku on February 11, 2017, 01:55:56 PM
This is the one we're counting after you losing two in a row? :hmm:
We don't count games that you win.
I don't want to call the tournament officials biased, so I won't say biased. It's just so political. We have a beautiful electoral college, which I won, big league. Big league, I'm telling you. I would have won the popular championship, too, if 4 to 5 million electrons hadn't "voted illegally" and tipped the odds against me in several battlegrounds. Sad! Habbaku hasn't won anything in so long he has forgotten what winning looks like. Mkiefte, who had a terrible strategy, terrible, now wants to appeal. We've got to get smart, people. We need leadership.
A bad high school student understands this. It's standard locker room stuff: head to head is the tiebreaker. So simple! It's sad, really. Now a panel of so-called judges has unanimously ruled that we re-play head to head. It's a crooked system. SEE YOU IN COURT!
I will MAKE AMERICA (or the USSR, depending on the random draw) GREAT. AGAIN! Like I did the first time! Because they're telling me I have to!
Tamas, I've invited you (slimkt) to game #202562.
More strategy thoughts:
The AI plays to pollute your control of key battlegrounds. Don't be like the AI. You pollute battlegrounds with events or sometimes you play the China card for 5 ops to take over Pakistan or Thailand when the enemy controls it at only +2.
When I first started playing, I let myself get too far behind in regions. I figured I'd make it up later, I suppose. Now I try to compete in a region or make my opponent pay for his dominance in one region by consolidating my own in another one. Beware of outright control, though. At around 10 points a shot, a fully controlled area can ruin a game. You want to pollute his edge, at least.
Ops are precious. You want to play every single point for a reason. It's not bad strategy to simply play for points. That is, play for the scoring card that is coming up. In Early War, that means you might not play a single op outside of Europe, Middle East, and Asia (or at most one or two). It forces him to react. (That's why paying 2 to pollute is usually bad strategy. It's hard for you and easy for him.) Mkiefte is a formidable player, so I hesitate to contradict him, but I like to play to space only if I need to. I try to get as many ops plays as I possibly can, even playing the other guy's events whenever possible.
Usually I give up easy VP plays to play ops. But the game has lots of knobs. If you are struggling to keep up, then play cards for VPs, or take a small scoring play with just a presence if you don't think you can turn it into dominance.
Hold the China Card. Of course you will sometimes play the China Card. But I think you really need to know it's helping you more than the other guy when you play it. And most of the games I play are against people rated higher than me, so I'm not so sure I can play it to better effect than they can. Also, holding the China Card is a get out of jail free card if you draw two defcon suicide cards.
Play to screw the other guy. Think of how you can escape a bad hand or think of how you can make the hand miserable for him. Drew a fistsful of his events, including his Bear Trap or Quagmire? Play that on yourself so you can freely get rid of (hopefully only one) of those bad cards. Drew Bear Trap and you're the US? Maybe you don't play the event. That's 3 safe ops, and those are hard to come by. Probably you play it, and he just rids himself of Grain Sales or something, plus you just lost the opportunity to play 3 ops. Usually I'd rather he eats a bad card than I give him the easy out. Still, those cards get played a lot. Quagmire, especially, cancels NORAD and probably should be played. But that's the way to think about it. You play Quagmire so he stops screwing with you over NORAD. Not so much because you are hoping he'll miss his discard roll.
On scoring: You'll get behind in scoring regions. Way behind. See if you can control more states than he does, even if you can't control the battlegrounds. Don't give him that dominance/control easy.
Don't realign if he can just get back into the area from an adjacent space. *Do* realign when you can screw him over. A successful realignment should kick him out of the area with no way back in. If you have that opportunity, it's not a mistake to spend multiple cards attempting it. Constantly do what hurts the other guy, either by building an edge or by caving in a project he's building with something like Brush War or Voice of America or realignments.
As the Soviets, think autovictory. The end game tilts against you, so you need to start scoring points. Remember, it's not bad when he draws the scoring cards, it's good. He has to play them, and you get to play ops ops ops. You have to drive that early game to build a lead. That means Europe should score before he has dominance. Asia should score after you have dominance. Middle East should be a wash or go your way. Oh, and you'll probably have to play the China Card to make this happen. Maybe not, if you're lucky. But early points are very important for you, so play the China Card then put an extra point in Pakistan and Thailand to defend it from the US player armed with the China Card.
As the US, stay close. You can come back. It's okay if the Soviets go up by a dozen points. It's not recommended, but don't despair. Build par or an edge in future scoring regions. Maybe most of the regions have scored. That's okay, if the Soviet player isn't near 20. Start building your edge in multiple regions for the late game scoring cards and final scoring. Panama Canal is in there. North Sea Oil. Camp David and Sadat. Voice of America. Grain Sales. KAL. There is a lot of help coming, if you can hold on and build an edge in more regions than he can.
My USSR crushed vonmoltke's US on turn 6 via VPs. US had advanced almost to the end of the space race, the only one remaining was the last spot to discard 4 OPS for 2 VP. USSR only advanced in space race to the first spot. Other unscored regions were CA (USSR in Cuba 0/3, US in Panama 2/0 and Costa Rica 1/0, the rest empty) and SE Asia (USSR control of Thailand, Laos, Vietnam and Indonesia, US control of Malaysia).
Turn 5 ended on 15 VPs for the USSR after vonmoltke had to score Soviet-controlled Africa on his last AR. Turn 6 I got ME Scoring (Soviet-dominated with Shuttle, 4 VPs), Willy Brandt and Brush War which could all give me VPs. My HL was harmless Allende, since US could see my HL first and Defectors were still around. This was countered by US Junta which turned Argentina from 0/2 to 2/1. SA was already scored though so perhaps not the best play. AR1 I played Brush War on Panama since CA was not yet scored and Panama was unprotected by neighbors. That gave me 1 VP up to 16. I also had Liberation Theology in hand so could have later taken Mexico for CA control if something went really wrong. AR1 US play was to space Flower Power, but it failed, so ME Scoring won the game with 4 more VPs. Had the US managed to score those 2 VPs from space, Willy Brand would have given me 1 VP for overall of 19. I would still have most likely won at the end of the turn via Mil Ops (Brush War gave me 3, Junta did not give US any, and funnily enough I had zero non-BGs for the US to coup). CA or SEA scoring would also have won me the game. As I see it, that USSR control of Africa on turn 5 killed the game for the US.
I'm confused. Who am I supposed to be playing?
WTF? Seriously?
Yup, pretty much.
I played like shit, and I was very slow to respond, so I have forfeited my game against Nels. He was thoroughly kicking me around and we barely even started.
I sure am glad you guys insisted on a playoff.
Thanks for the games, Tamas. If you want to play again sometime, just fire off an invitation.
So what's the scoop on the playoff?
Any chance of another tourney any time soon?
This should probably be unpinned. :P
My victory should stand eternal.
Quote from: Solmyr on March 20, 2018, 06:35:49 AM
This should probably be unpinned. :P
Okay, I unpinned it.
Habbaku, it'll still stand eternal - just a bit further down the topic list.
:cry: