Languish.org

Might as well have its own thread given the amount of content out there and coming. :D

I enjoyed episode 4 of Wandavision and how they had small explanations for a bunch of the mysterious bits.

Also liked the continuity characters to Captain Marvel and Thor.

Yeah, I thought that episode came at the right point in the show too. Also, pretty sure "it's all Wanda" is not the whole story of it.

Quote from: garbon on January 30, 2021, 04:42:16 AM
Might as well have its own thread given the amount of content out there and coming. :D

I enjoyed episode 4 of Wandavision and how they had small explanations for a bunch of the mysterious bits.

Also liked the continuity characters to Captain Marvel and Thor.

The FBI agent was apparently from Ant Man & The Wasp as well.

I really wasn't expecting this episode with quite so many mysteries to be revealed (though tons left to go).  It was my boys favourite so far since it was set in the "now".  The scene at the hospital where everyone is coming back to life was cool, if sad.

It made sense to do it now. It seemed there would be 3 or 4 more decade by decade episodes before more of a real world one but spacing things out is more sensible

I think it is a combo of Wanda and Mephisto. The fact that people in that mess are aware something is deeply broken make me think Mephisto is involved.

Okay, last try, I promise. :P

I thought this was an interesting take, is it just poking fun of the previous arrangement that lead to two alternate Quicksilvers a la the recast comment (and that bit about Wanda with no alias as Scarlet Witch isn't a MCU name) or is it actually supposed to be a real connection to an 'alternate unvierse'?  Feel like it is just the former but latter could be cool in some fashion.

https://www.polygon.com/disney-plus/2021/2/5/22267932/wandavision-episode-5-cameo-explained

QuoteWandaVision's episode 5 cameo signals the future of Marvel

A tiny moment radically changes the Cinematic Universe rules

For what is worth, the show in Spain is called "La Bruja Escarlata y Visión" (Vision and the Scarlet Witch) - which is a waste of a perfectly great title in Wandavision, but hey...

The recasting joke was peak meta. Loved it. I hope they bring Magneto into the universe (and they make him their dad as in the comics).

I do suspect it's more than a joke. A way to try and bring xmen into the MCU.

My gf, not a MCU or comic aficionado finds the show confusing. I agree with her. Still enjoyable tho.

Quote from: Grey Fox on February 06, 2021, 11:10:27 AM
My gf, not a MCU or comic aficionado finds the show confusing. I agree with her. Still enjoyable tho.

Oh for sure. I think it would be very confusing if not a committed MCU fan. My husband and I have been watching the MCU films in chronologically and got up to Age of Ultron so he has a bit of a base to rely on.

My mother can follow the story allright without knowing much of the MCU. The only thing I had to explain to her was that 1) Vision is supposed to be dead (and they gave that info later in the show), 2) The whole Thanos finger-snap so she understood what was going on at the hospital when Rambeau comes back.

Okay, so I think I've seen every MCU movie, but I missed the significance of last night's Wandavision [spoiler]because I really haven't followed the X-Men movies past the original trilogy.[/spoiler]

But even before I went online after watching it was pretty good.

I've been watching it with my boys, who were kind of bored with the first two episodes (which were in black and white and almost pure sit-coms) but now they're fully on-board with this show.

What I like is that it's teaching them they need to pay attention to the show and the dialogue - it can't really be enjoyed on a purely superficial level of just watching the action and the explosions.

Quote from: celedhring on February 06, 2021, 01:21:20 PM
My mother can follow the story allright without knowing much of the MCU. The only thing I had to explain to her was that 1) Vision is supposed to be dead (and they gave that info later in the show), 2) The whole Thanos finger-snap so she understood what was going on at the hospital when Rambeau comes back.

Please explain it to me.  I was completely lost when they did the hospital scene. 

Quote from: Barrister on February 06, 2021, 01:47:17 PM
Okay, so I think I've seen every MCU movie, but I missed the significance of last night's Wandavision [spoiler]because I really haven't followed the X-Men movies past the original trilogy.[/spoiler]

But even before I went online after watching it was pretty good.

[spoiler]Pietro/Quicksilver is her brother in the comics and was represented in both the MCU and X-Men movies. The MCU version died in one of the movies. The one that showed up was the actor/version that was in the X-Men movies, hinting at the possible in universe merger of the properties. At least that is what I have been able to put together. I'm woefully short on MCU and X-Men movie watching and haven't seen an episode of WandaVision yet.[/spoiler]

Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 09, 2021, 11:19:56 PM

Quote from: Barrister on February 06, 2021, 01:47:17 PM
Okay, so I think I've seen every MCU movie, but I missed the significance of last night's Wandavision [spoiler]because I really haven't followed the X-Men movies past the original trilogy.[/spoiler]

But even before I went online after watching it was pretty good.

[spoiler]Pietro/Quicksilver is her brother in the comics and was represented in both the MCU and X-Men movies. The MCU version died in one of the movies. The one that showed up was the actor/version that was in the X-Men movies, hinting at the possible in universe merger of the properties. At least that is what I have been able to put together. I'm woefully short on MCU and X-Men movie watching and haven't seen an episode of WandaVision yet.[/spoiler]

Umm, yeah.

Afterwards I went online and saw the numerous articles that explained just that.

Quote from: crazy canuck on February 09, 2021, 06:42:17 PM

Quote from: celedhring on February 06, 2021, 01:21:20 PM
My mother can follow the story allright without knowing much of the MCU. The only thing I had to explain to her was that 1) Vision is supposed to be dead (and they gave that info later in the show), 2) The whole Thanos finger-snap so she understood what was going on at the hospital when Rambeau comes back.

Please explain it to me.  I was completely lost when they did the hospital scene.

Its just showing the direct after effects of the Hulks snap in Endgame movie.

The "I haven't seen any MCU movie" version of it, which is essentially what I told mom:

1) Thanos, a supervillain, kills Vision in order to be able to complete a wish-granting artifact (he needed the gem that Vision wears in his forehead).
2) Thanos uses this artifact to remove half of the living beings in the universe, who vanish.
3) Five years later, the Avengers figure out how to reverse it, and all the missing people reappear in the exact same place where they vanished, all at once. This is what we see at the hospital.
4) In the case of Monica Rambeau, during these 5 years she missed her mother dying of cancer.

I was even more circumspect given we are still working our way through the MCU films (I've seen them all but my husband hasn't).

I told him Vision was dead after they first showed flash of him looking dead and then on hospital scene, I said just assume there was an event that caused a lot of people to disappear and then are are now all coming back.

There's no danger of my mom watching MCU films.  :D

But she finds the supernatural mystery side of Wandavision appealing, plus all of the sitcom tributes.

Spiderman film spoilers-


Have to say on the multiverse stuff though...
Kind of a shitty way to introduce the concept as just a con-artist making it up in the last Spiderman film. And the next Spiderman is to go all in with it apparently. So Spiderman is now the multiverse hero. Who knew.
Really hope there's some explanation as to how Mysterio found out about this stuff and people just believed him.

Quote from: Tyr on February 10, 2021, 04:11:39 AM
Spiderman film spoilers-


Have to say on the multiverse stuff though...
Kind of a shitty way to introduce the concept as just a con-artist making it up in the last Spiderman film. And the next Spiderman is to go all in with it apparently. So Spiderman is now the multiverse hero. Who knew.
Really hope there's some explanation as to how Mysterio found out about this stuff and people just believed him.

Well there was  Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse that cartoon one that also had the multiverse present.

Here suggests that perhaps Doctor Strange 2 should address it. Though I don't see why it would be farfetched that he made something up that happened to be true.

https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-mysterio-multiverse-plot-hole-fix/

"Into the Spiderverse" was a fantastic film, but I believe the multiverse thingie is the ultimate "jump the shark" of comic books. It's like time travel for other genres  :lol:

Quote from: celedhring on February 10, 2021, 04:21:17 AM
"Into the Spiderverse" was a fantastic film, but I believe the multiverse thingie is the ultimate "jump the shark" of comic books. It's like trime travel for other genres  :lol:

Agents of Shield had both. -_-

Quote from: celedhring on February 10, 2021, 04:21:17 AM
"Into the Spiderverse" was a fantastic film, but I believe the multiverse thingie is the ultimate "jump the shark" of comic books. It's like time travel for other genres  :lol:

Time travel is terrible when it's done poorly, but when it's done well it's great. Don't see why the multiverse can't be the same.

Spiderverse was OK as it was a bit of a side story. Took place in a universe outside the normal MCU and brought in characters from other universes too.

The multiverse does need to be introduced sooner or later as this is the only way we can have more Tony Stark, Captain America, etc... a few decades hence whilst still keeping continuity.

Looking at Garbon's link Spiderman 3 is before Strange 2. Original Spiderman actors will appear there it is said. Could be thats just a fake out and they'll play different characters? Maybe a movie version of Spiderman in universe?

Spiderverse is the best Spiderman movie.

Quote from: celedhring on February 10, 2021, 03:20:40 AM
The "I haven't seen any MCU movie" version of it, which is essentially what I told mom:

1) Thanos, a supervillain, kills Vision in order to be able to complete a wish-granting artifact (he needed the gem that Vision wears in his forehead).
2) Thanos uses this artifact to remove half of the living beings in the universe, who vanish.
3) Five years later, the Avengers figure out how to reverse it, and all the missing people reappear in the exact same place where they vanished, all at once. This is what we see at the hospital.
4) In the case of Monica Rambeau, during these 5 years she missed her mother dying of cancer.

Thanks, that helps a lot, especially 5 - I had no idea who she was or what she was doing in the hospital.

Monica Rambeau is future Captain Marvel too.

She was Captain Marvel prior to Carol Danvers in comics :nerd:

Interesting they skipped the 90s and went straight for malcolm in the middle.

Does seem they're going for super powered rambeau

Good episode

First episode where the based sitcom fills me with nostalgia.

Those were the days.

It was Agatha all along!

https://twitter.com/vandawision/status/1362692765642072064

Bah, modern sitcom sucks.

She killed the dog. She must suffer.

I laughed a lot at that episode. Loved the pitch changed office theme tune. Interesting vision wasn't mentioned at all there. And he didn't think to just fly sooner.
I got something was shifty with Agnes a bit earlier when the kid said she was quiet but how come Vision didn't notice this in the prior episode.

And this is the first with an after credit scene right? The 8 minute long credits of Disney shows anger me.

I have forced my boys to watch the credits after each show.  I feel exonerated.

Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2021, 04:21:43 AM
And this is the first with an after credit scene right? The 8 minute long credits of Disney shows anger me.

Well, in this case the show doesn't have opening credits (the mock-sitcom ones are in-universe and don't credit anyone) so they have to list everybody in the end credits, which makes them longer.

Incidentally, I can't get "It was Agatha all along" out of my brain, it's an evil earworm.  :D

Great episode!

I thought the Sokovia scenes were rather cringeworthy, but once they move to her as an adult it became much better.

So as I understand it, in the end it wasn't really Agatha all along (:cry:), it was all Wanda's creation and Agatha's just trying to discover how she did it.

Yes. Definite cringe in the "No papa English!". Hate it when shows do that.
And they're watching dvds of old shows.... Ehh.... A more logical explanation would be that they just didn't have satellite TV and had to rely on local broadcasters which show a lot of old stuff?

I didn't get the Agatha flashback either. So... She sucks people's life force? This is to show she is really bad? But... Towards the end it seems she is trying to save the world?

Also didn't get the vision corpse flashback. So Wanda didn't steal it after all? Where did the deed to the property come from - all I've read suggests it was visions doing.... But why that random empty plot in a random shitty town?

How was Agatha trying to save the world?

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2021, 12:16:47 PM
How was Agatha trying to save the world?

At the end she said stuff about Wanda having very dangerous chaos magic that could unmake the world.

Quote from: Tyr on March 01, 2021, 12:28:36 PM

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2021, 12:16:47 PM
How was Agatha trying to save the world?

At the end she said stuff about Wanda having very dangerous chaos magic that could unmake the world.

I thought that was envy.

Quote from: Tyr on March 01, 2021, 12:28:36 PM
At the end she said stuff about Wanda having very dangerous chaos magic that could unmake the world.

I feel like there's still a mystery or two left with Agatha.  Why did she just so happen to be in Westview when Wanda made the Hex?  Was she responsible for bringing Wanda there in the first place?  And will Ralph ever make an appearance?

Could Ralph be Not-Piedro?
It was an annoying point last episode that they never followed up on the ep before's after credit scene.

Quote from: Tyr on March 01, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Could Ralph be Not-Piedro?
It was an annoying point last episode that they never followed up on the ep before's after credit scene.

I thought Not-Piedro was Agatha.

I also don't know how Not-Pietro furthered Agatha's plans. But I also don't know Agatha's plans  :lol:

Hopefully it will all make sense in the end, but I have this nagging fear it won't.

The whole series is pretty clearly setting up Dr Strange 2.
The next round of Marvel looks to be going big on magic as well as the multiverse.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2021, 12:44:00 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 01, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Could Ralph be Not-Piedro?
It was an annoying point last episode that they never followed up on the ep before's after credit scene.

I thought Not-Piedro was Agatha.

Her lackey/creation for sure, but not her. I'm sure they've appeared on-screen together then there was the after credit scene.

Quote from: celedhring on March 01, 2021, 12:47:22 PM
I also don't know how Not-Pietro furthered Agatha's plans. But I also don't know Agatha's plans  :lol:

Hopefully it will all make sense in the end, but I have this nagging fear it won't.

Agatha told Wanda she posed as her dead brother to try to get her to confide her secrets. That didn't work and so she used the direct approach.

Quote from: celedhring on March 01, 2021, 12:47:22 PM
I also don't know how Not-Pietro furthered Agatha's plans. But I also don't know Agatha's plans  :lol:

Hopefully it will all make sense in the end, but I have this nagging fear it won't.

Yeah - I've been quite enjoying this, but I do feel like once we get to the end it won't be nearly as clever as We thought it was.

Quote from: Tyr on March 01, 2021, 12:50:46 PM
The whole series is pretty clearly setting up Dr Strange 2.
The next round of Marvel looks to be going big on magic as well as the multiverse.

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 01, 2021, 12:44:00 PM

Quote from: Tyr on March 01, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Could Ralph be Not-Piedro?
It was an annoying point last episode that they never followed up on the ep before's after credit scene.

I thought Not-Piedro was Agatha.

Her lackey/creation for sure, but not her. I'm sure they've appeared on-screen together then there was the after credit scene.

Yeah, she says it was not literally her, "just my eyes and ears".

Quote from: Barrister on March 01, 2021, 12:54:39 PM

Quote from: celedhring on March 01, 2021, 12:47:22 PM
I also don't know how Not-Pietro furthered Agatha's plans. But I also don't know Agatha's plans  :lol:

Hopefully it will all make sense in the end, but I have this nagging fear it won't.

Yeah - I've been quite enjoying this, but I do feel like once we get to the end it won't be nearly as clever as We thought it was.

Representing the Crown in Languish too?

I guess it had to be expected but slightly disappointed this ended with the usual bloated Marvel SFX extravaganza.

Same. Kinda boring.

NOOOOO, I was looking forward to watching it.  :weep:

But maybe with lowered expectations, I will enjoy it more now  :D

GF won't stop shouting about White Vision.
Which is worrying. Sounds rather nazi.
Wonder why he flew away.

Scarlet witch costume looks very 90s superhero.

Nice fight conclusion with the runes.

PSA: There are two scenes during the ending credits this time.

I agree - for such a weird show it was kind of disappointing it had such a conventional Marvel ending, but probably to be expected.

Mrs B was frustrated with "Well what happened to White Vision"?

I have to admit that Wanda saying goodbye to her family caught me in the feels.

Isn't that a dark magic book Wanda is reading at the end?  Josh was going "is she a bad guy now"?  I don't know Josh...

Yes, that was the Darkhold she was going through at the end. Very much not a good book to be combing through.

Ending was fine with me, a little melodramatic but par for the course. And definitely set up threads for other shows/films.

Darkhold got a lot of screen time previously with Agents of Shield.

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2021, 10:54:41 PM

Isn't that a dark magic book Wanda is reading at the end?  Josh was going "is she a bad guy now"?  I don't know Josh...

Now? She kept people enslaved and in agony long after she knew what she was doing. She was always the villain. The good guy got hit by a truck and arrested :D

One thing that confused me Is she trapped Agatha in the hex and then took down the hex. Does that mean Agatha is free?

Quote from: HVC on March 06, 2021, 06:34:43 AM

Quote from: Barrister on March 05, 2021, 10:54:41 PM

Isn't that a dark magic book Wanda is reading at the end?  Josh was going "is she a bad guy now"?  I don't know Josh...

Now? She kept people enslaved and in agony long after she knew what she was doing. She was always the villain. The good guy got hit by a truck and arrested :D

One thing that confused me Is she trapped Agatha in the hex and then took down the hex. Does that mean Agatha is free?

Did a mind wipe spell to make her Agnes until series 2/a future movie.

Was her children mind controlled and real or hex only?

Hex.

Quote from: celedhring on March 06, 2021, 08:45:49 AM
Hex.

Except for the fact you could hear their voices calling out in the post-credits scene.

But yes they weren't mind-controlled children from 'real' Westview.

On to the next...

I thought the first episode was okay of Falcon/Winter Soldier though interesting that titular characters didn't meet up in first episode of this very short series.

Still not quite sure why so much time was wasted on Falcon's starting fight whereas, while telegraphed and then ground in by having to show the notebook page confirming, at least Winter Soldier's fight was connected.

I did enjoy how effortlessly much (most?) of the episode was focused on non-white characters and their stories.

Well the first scene was a "we're going to spend most of the episode with superheroes being denied bank loans and dealing with guilt so let's put some big set-piece at the start" move.

I thought the episode was okay.

Quote from: garbon on March 20, 2021, 05:56:03 AM
I did enjoy how effortlessly much (most?) of the episode was focused on non-white characters and their stories.

In this episode they telegraphed quite clearly that the show will be about Falcon taking over Cap's mantle, so that's going to be a big theme. Looking forward to it since the Marvel movies have rarely dealt with social issues.

It was engaging enough.  The fight scene was kind of ludicrous for epople who aren't souped up on superhero juice though. 

Falcon & Winter Soldier - Episode 2

So that's why we aren't getting the AZ vaccines, they are being stolen by a mysterious cabal of super-soldier revolutionaries.  :hmm:

Man. That lorry battle. The effects quality is awful.
Even worse than the usual modern super springy made of jelly cgi fight schenes.

I hadn't realized what the superhero genre needed was more couples counseling.  :hmm:

I'm probably missing something, but why don't they have guns?

Immediate disadvantage?

Quote from: Liep on March 29, 2021, 03:00:28 AM
I'm probably missing something, but why don't they have guns?

"Superheroes don't kill"

Although the new discount brand Cap does have a gun.

Episode 3 really just left me kind-of lost.  I feel like I need to go and watch some youtube show that's just as long as Episode 3 itself in order to understand everything that was going on.

Quote from: Barrister on April 03, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Episode 3 really just left me kind-of lost.  I feel like I need to go and watch some youtube show that's just as long as Episode 3 itself in order to understand everything that was going on.

Glad it's not just me losing what is going on

Yeah, episode 3 was a bit of a hot mess. They seemed to throw a plot twist every 5 minutes or so, and a lot of it didn't make much sense. That said, I was thoroughly entertained.

Also, my guess is that Carter is the Power Broker, and also that the whole thing will end with Asshole Cap taking the supersoldier serum and fighting the good guys.

What was confusing?

That was a 'nice' image at the end.

As I said after watching the first episode, Marvel hasn't done much social commentary and I'm quite digging this show trying to have a bit more bite.

Quote from: celedhring on April 03, 2021, 10:05:37 AM
Yeah, episode 3 was a bit of a hot mess. They seemed to throw a plot twist every 5 minutes or so, and a lot of it didn't make much sense. That said, I was thoroughly entertained.

Also, my guess is that Carter is the Power Broker, and also that the whole thing will end with Asshole Cap taking the supersoldier serum and fighting the good guys.

You certainly called the last part of that sentence. I mean it was telegraphed throughout episode 4, but good call on calling it beforehand.

I mean - I appreciate what the show is trying to do in terms of social commentary.  But I was digging Wandavision way more than this.


In terms of Disney+ shows my boys wanted to watch the new Mighty Ducks episode before Falcon and Winter Soldier.

Yeah, I'm with your boys. The New Mighty Ducks is more fun/interesting than FaWS.

Well that was Deadpoolish.
They spend hours upon hours of screen time doing all this hyper dangerous stuff that should kill them and others a thousand times over but nobody ever visibly dies. Its always punch him and he falls into an endless abyss or chain reaction leads to him being in an explosion....
Now somebody visibly dies on screen and everyone stops trying to kill each other and freaks out.


And yes. Confirmed. Flag smashers are the good guys.

Ive forgotten why Falcon and Bucky are even fighting the flagsmashers.

Okay, so I think I've complained that while I appreciate the social messaging F&WS is trying to do, it's been kind of boring.

After episode 5 (of 6) it's finally getting somewhere.

*spoilers* but this thread has hardly generated much traffic






So John Walker has gone mostly bad.  Sam (Falcon) has accepted the Captain America mantle.  There's a whole back story of the first black Super Soldier.

And Julia Louis-Dreyfus is going to be some kind of big-bad?  I did NOT see that one coming...

Supposedly we should have met her first in Black Widow.

This show is dope. Apart from ep 3, which had huge plot holes. I wish it was 8 or 10 episodes.

Oh wait, so this is ending this week? Damn. Feels like they still have stuff to go through, I guess it will be leave some plot threads set up for other movies/shows.

FaWS, like Wandavision, was intended to bridge the gap between 2 movie releases not introduce us to Phase 4. Sometimes, it really shows.

I hope Zemo gets his own show.

Quote from: Habbaku on April 19, 2021, 03:59:26 PM
I hope Zemo gets his own show.

Why?  I haven't found him particularly compelling.

I am looking forward to the Loki TV show.  The trailers have it looking fairly bonkers - much more like Wandavision in that respect, and unlike FaWS which is comparatively much more grounded.  Too bad we have to wait until June for that one.

Quote from: Barrister on April 18, 2021, 11:25:43 PM
Okay, so I think I've complained that while I appreciate the social messaging F&WS is trying to do, it's been kind of boring.

maybe one of the reasons why one should keep the social messaging out of escapism as much as feasible?
People watch this to get away from reality, not to get more of it shoved down their throats. At which point it can start to feel propagandesque.

Marvel has been doing mindless entertainment for 15 years. No need to get the culture war axes out for the one time they try to do social commentary. Plus, I think it's handled quite well in the show. I.e., the flag smashers are obviously a refugee metaphor, but they are certainly gray characters. The whole Isaiah arc is a smart way to tell something about blacks being obscured from the official American narrative (although I feel Watchmen did exactly the same thing, and was fucking brilliant), while for example John Walker is not shown to be racist himself despite taking away the shield from the black protagonist...

It is Crazy Ivan. The hint is in the name.

Overall that was enjoyable and I'm glad the non-action bits (as they so aptly described in the films) were interesting in their own right, not simply stop gaps to next action sequence.

Nice tip off for Sharon at the end.

Quote from: celedhring on April 20, 2021, 06:08:34 AM
No need to get the culture war axes out for the one time they try to do social commentary.

that's indeed advice that Hollywood should listen to.

I liked it. The ending was probably just okay, in the sense that nothing surprising happened in it, and the back half of the episode was a bit too overloaded with drama. But overall the show was really interesting and I think it weaved its themes smartly, which is not easy to do while keeping it an entertainment product (and it was entertaining throughout).

Falcon's cap suit is a bit gaudy though... 

Quote from: celedhring on April 24, 2021, 04:33:53 AM
Falcon's cap suit is a bit gaudy though... 

:bleeding:

Thanks, Wakanda!

I liked Sam's speech. However, I was unable to be moved as his freaking suit looked like something you'd get off the discount rack at Party City. The colours and the material both threw me off.

Apart from that, by the end of the show you get to know and appreciate the 2 main characters (mostly Sam). I'd say that makes the show a success.

The speech was really dumb without any background on what the GRC is.

Quote from: chipwich on April 24, 2021, 05:16:59 PM
The speech was really dumb without any background on what the GRC is.

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Global_Repatriation_Council

Your nerd card should be taken away.

Quote from: 11B4V on April 24, 2021, 05:28:32 PM

Quote from: chipwich on April 24, 2021, 05:16:59 PM
The speech was really dumb without any background on what the GRC is.

https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Global_Repatriation_Council

Your nerd card should be taken away.

I watched every episode of FaWS.  Hell I think I have watched every Disney Marvel movie they've made.  I still really had trouble figuring out what the GRC was - that link did a better job of explaining why the 'blip' led to a refugee problem than anything I got from FaWS.

It was a satisfying end and character development for both leads so it was successful that way.  I still though found a lot of the plotlines to get there confusing, and so did my oldest kid.


So it looks like Elaine/Val is forming some kind of alternate or dark Avengers squad?  John Walker/US Agent obviously is one.  Maybe also Baron Zemo?  Maybe Agatha Harkness?  Should be interesting a few years down the road.

Garbon - maybe time to rename the thread?  Cuz it's Loki time!

Exposition-heavy episode.  So of course my kids kept asking 'what's going on' when I kept replying "just listen!". :mad:

But I really liked it.  Deeply weird, kind of like Wandavision (and unlike FaWS), so I really enjoyed it.  Loved the visual look of it.

[spoiler]Slightly annoyed that the "Loki as DB Cooper" thing in every single trailer was written off in a few second 'I lost a bet with Thor' bit.[/spoiler]

Looks like it should be a good 'un though. :)

The episode was a bit slow, but I'm willing to cut them some slack on that regard due to all the setup required. There were some fun moments and Hiddleston/Wilson look like they'll have some good chemistry.

I gotta say that the whole retrofuristic 1950s gimmick is starting to get a bit played out. Plus Umbrella Academy already did the "time travel police agency as a 1950s office" bit.

Quote from: Barrister on June 09, 2021, 11:20:51 PM
Garbon - maybe time to rename the thread?  Cuz it's Loki time!

Done though I'm not down with this mid-week jazz and will be watching it at my regularly scheduled marvel time - saturday morning. :D

Quote from: garbon on June 10, 2021, 12:14:55 PM

Quote from: Barrister on June 09, 2021, 11:20:51 PM
Garbon - maybe time to rename the thread?  Cuz it's Loki time!

Done though I'm not down with this mid-week jazz and will be watching it at my regularly scheduled marvel time - saturday morning. :D

Yeah just when Disney+ had us well trained to watch a show with the kids on Friday night (Mandalorian -> Wandavision -> FalconWintersoldier / Mighty Ducks) suddenly they put it on a Wednesday? :blink:

So reading some informed speculation about the identity of the bad guy seen at the end of the episode:

(so spoiler-y if true)

[spoiler]So I've seen the thinking is that the other Loki variant they're going after is Lady Loki (who apparently is a figure from the comics).  The reasoning is based on A: our Loki's TVA ID card which is seen quickly lists "Sex: fluid", but also that an actress Sophia Di Martino has been announced as cast in the series, but with no role announced so far.[/spoiler]

Not watching the show, and likely won't, but [spoiler]Loki being gender fluid is in line with mythology. After all he (as a mare) he was knocked up by Svaðilfari and gave birth to Sleipnir, and of course there's the incident where he had his balls tied to a goat's chin hairs, so he had different naughty bits at different times.[/spoiler]

Syt hardly anything of this version of Loki is inline with the Mythology though  :P

Pff :P

I too got big vibes that we have seen this retro time travel stuff a lot before.
Though I like how they take it a bit further and it all comes out very fallouty.

I guess as a set up first episode they did a good job in repeating so many moments from the films as I wouldn't remember otherwise.
So far so Meh. Let's see.

Looking better than the first two series.

Watch #1 last night.

I really like it. Unlike others I haven't watch Umbrella Academy, so the TVA is all new tv concept and very interesting.

Second episode was a bit more interesting. Picked up the pace significantly.

Incidentally, I don't get why the TVA don't ditch the riot cop gear while on missions and try to blend in more, given they always seem to draw people's attention everywhere they go. I assume they DGAF since they can just reset that timeline afterwards, but it would probably make their job a little easier  :P

I like that Holding Out For A Hero showed up.

Quote from: celedhring on June 16, 2021, 09:12:39 AM
Second episode was a bit more interesting. Picked up the pace significantly.

Incidentally, I don't get why the TVA don't ditch the riot cop gear while on missions and try to blend in more, given they always seem to draw people's attention everywhere they go. I assume they DGAF since they can just reset that timeline afterwards, but it would probably make their job a little easier  :P

Yeah, the riot gear doesn't seem to protect very well, so not a great tradeoff between protection and allowing the variant to easily identify them.

Its basically wearing a Trek red shirt.

Quote from: Tyr on February 20, 2021, 04:21:43 AM
And this is the first with an after credit scene right? The 8 minute long credits of Disney shows anger me.

the one before that had a seen[spoiler]Rambeau discovers Harkness' basement and his suprised by "Pietro"[/spoiler]

Fun episode, although when you think of it very little happens in it.

I like the actress playing Lady Loki Sylvie, though.

Late to the party, but I really like WandaVision so far.  Only 1 episode left! :)

I only just recognised Owen Wilson when I saw his name in the credits.
Post-credit sequence wow. Multiverse ho.

I wonder if another Loki is ultimately behind it all.

Finished Falcon.

I quite liked it.
[spoiler]
Interesting that the New Captain America isn't a super soldier.
[/spoiler]

That was a satisfying episode.

No comments on the penultimate Loki episode?

This is just bananas.  At least a couple dozen different Lokis running around.  Of course they all immediately betray each other.  Alligator Loki really doesn't make any sense but is funny none the less.  Good to have Mobius back.  And now we just wait to find out (maybe) who really is behind this all.

Oh, and Old Loki was fun.  Including the ridiculous comic costume.

That was the best episode so far and I really look forward to seeing how they wrap up next week.

Loki's done a lot better at entertaining me than WV and FWS almost entirely because it's so removed from the "real world" and consequences there. The actors are higher-quality too (especially Hiddleston and Di Martino), so that likely helps a lot.

These most recent two episodes had the greatest set-pieces as well. The opening shots/music of the Void, and then the illusory Asgard were perfect.

I agree.  This is superb.

It's fun, but ultimately forgettable. So many twists and turns make it feel like Calvinball. So far it's my least favorite Disney Marvel show (I still enjoy it).

Quote from: celedhring on July 09, 2021, 11:41:35 AM
It's fun, but ultimately forgettable. So many twists and turns make it feel like Calvinball. So far it's my least favorite Disney Marvel show (I still enjoy it).

Not sure about all the twists.  The show has been following the theme that the all is not what it seems from the beginning and dropping hints along the way. 

Quote from: celedhring on July 09, 2021, 11:41:35 AM
It's fun, but ultimately forgettable. So many twists and turns make it feel like Calvinball. So far it's my least favorite Disney Marvel show (I still enjoy it).

I will agree that although they sold all the marvel shows as being "just like a really long movie", the need to try and fit a big twist at the end of every episode is sometimes frustrating.

But I am enjoying this much more than FATWS, probably on par with Wandavision (though I liked that show less once then got out of TV-mode and into the normal world).

Yeah, Wandavision kinda dropped the ball by the end, but it remains my favorite. I think it was a better mix of bizarreness and poignancy than Loki. I feel like Loki just tries too hard. Again, I still enjoy it.

Speaking of the MCU - Black Widow comes out this weekend.  Getting good reviews.

If I weren't going camping I might be tempted to go see it in the theatre.

Last time I was in a theater it was a year ago to watch Tenet, so I'm certainly going to this one next week.

Oh - also coming is the next Marvel TV series - "What if..."  Probably shortly after Loki is done.  Disney+ has done a good job of always having new content to justify your monthly subscription.

It's animated this time, but voiced by all the original Marvel actors.  Apparently 10 episodes, with season 2 already confirmed.

From the trailer we can see Tony Stark at the very start of Ironman 1 - being rescued by Kilmonger.  We can see T'Challa as Star-Lord, Peggy Carter as Captain America, and.... Howard the Duck?

I imagine this will just be fluff, but could be enjoyable fluff.

I like Alligator Loki.  And Mobius talking about never having pruned an Alligator Loki.  And Classic Loki being like the Earth-616 OG Loki in the costume.


So, Kang the Conqueror?  He'd be the type to have established the TVA to make sure his creation and victory is unavoidable.  Especially given his occasional battles with other Kang the Conqueror's

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 09, 2021, 12:51:16 PM
I like Alligator Loki.  And Mobius talking about never having pruned an Alligator Loki.  And Classic Loki being like the Earth-616 OG Loki in the costume.


So, Kang the Conqueror?  He'd be the type to have established the TVA to make sure his creation and victory is unavoidable.  Especially given his occasional battles with other Kang the Conqueror's

So to my surprise I've become a MCU fan, but I've never read any of the comics (to the very minor extent I read comics as a kid / young adult, I was a DC guy).

But the online speculation has most commonly been pointed to Kang, who is set to be a major character in Ant Man 3: Quantummania.  So it's certainly possible.

But then again the online speculation was also quite certain the villain of Wandavision would be Mephisto, when it turned out to be - Wanda herself.  So I wouldn't put it past them to make another Loki variant as the Big Bad in this one.

Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:39:46 PM
Oh - also coming is the next Marvel TV series - "What if..."  Probably shortly after Loki is done.  Disney+ has done a good job of always having new content to justify your monthly subscription.

It's animated this time, but voiced by all the original Marvel actors.  Apparently 10 episodes, with season 2 already confirmed.

From the trailer we can see Tony Stark at the very start of Ironman 1 - being rescued by Kilmonger.  We can see T'Challa as Star-Lord, Peggy Carter as Captain America, and.... Howard the Duck?

I imagine this will just be fluff, but could be enjoyable fluff.

Oh it won't be fluff. Phase 4 is multi-verse shenanigans.

Rumor is that Steve Rogers is Ironman in the verse that Killmonger saves TS.

The What-If comics were inconsequential fluff. I expect the show to be the same.

Quote from: Grey Fox on July 09, 2021, 01:35:44 PM

Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 12:39:46 PM
Oh - also coming is the next Marvel TV series - "What if..."  Probably shortly after Loki is done.  Disney+ has done a good job of always having new content to justify your monthly subscription.

It's animated this time, but voiced by all the original Marvel actors.  Apparently 10 episodes, with season 2 already confirmed.

From the trailer we can see Tony Stark at the very start of Ironman 1 - being rescued by Kilmonger.  We can see T'Challa as Star-Lord, Peggy Carter as Captain America, and.... Howard the Duck?

I imagine this will just be fluff, but could be enjoyable fluff.

Oh it won't be fluff. Phase 4 is multi-verse shenanigans.

Rumor is that Steve Rogers is Ironman in the verse that Killmonger saves TS.

Fluff in that there's no impact on the overall MCU, no character development.  But that's fine - not everything has to be Endgame.

I understood it that way.

I expect changes in the MCU that will coalesce in the next Doctor Strange movie.

What I want to know is... will Loki finally fuck himself?  :shifty:

Wandavision was best.
Loki is still great.
Falcon was not good.

And ja. If she's a female version of him... Doesn't that make her genetically his sister? Squickier than self fucking.

I'm not sure on the way they're introducing multiverse stuff. The fake multiverse with the last spiderman feels a misstep. Was it meant to be an attempt at misdirection?

Quote from: Barrister on July 09, 2021, 01:03:21 PM
So to my surprise I've become a MCU fan, but I've never read any of the comics (to the very minor extent I read comics as a kid / young adult, I was a DC guy).

Probably to your benefit. I'm kind of glad that comics were too expensive for me as a child as by in large, they aren't very good. :(

Of course, I was raised on all the very camp Marval cartoons. :D

I've come around from expecting Kang the Conqueror to thinking it'll just be another Loki.  Its Loki's all the way down.

The multiverse stuff was inevitable eventually. Though I do get the feeling they didn't properly prepare in advance.
Opening the multiverse allows them to account for big stars leaving without constantly having to scrape the bottom of the hero barrel or whittling down lesser versions of heroes.
It allows them in 20 years to have a totally fresh Tony stark.

Loki's finale was very, very good. The best of the Marvel TV shows thus far. It made me retroactively give zero fucks about whatever happened in FAWS and WV. Give me more weirdness.

Yep, loved it.  Absolutely loved every bit of it.

I have to admit I was NOT expecting the finale to be roughly 90% exposition and talking.  I predict my kids will hate it.

But precisely because it was not what I expected I kind of like it.  Definitely be watching for Season 2.

Took me a bit to recognize Jonathan Majors from last year's Lovecraft Country (immediately thought he looks familiar, just took a moment to place him). He was really good here too. And I guess he'll be playing every movie's villain from now on. :D

Yays for Kang the Conqueror! I was afraid it'd just be another Loki.

I'm curious how a Loki Season 2 is going to work.


The first two series, WV and FatWS, told self-contained stories.  Kind of like a movie but longer.  That meshes very well with the MCU being a whole series of movies.

But Loki set up the big baddie as Kang (as I understand it).  Kang has already been announced as the villain of Dr Strange 2.

So I guess you'll be required to watch Dr Strange 2 before seeing the next season of Loki?  Funny way to run a tv series.

Quote from: Barrister on July 15, 2021, 01:42:49 PM
I'm curious how a Loki Season 2 is going to work.


The first two series, WV and FatWS, told self-contained stories.  Kind of like a movie but longer.  That meshes very well with the MCU being a whole series of movies.

But Loki set up the big baddie as Kang (as I understand it).  Kang has already been announced as the villain of Dr Strange 2.

So I guess you'll be required to watch Dr Strange 2 before seeing the next season of Loki?  Funny way to run a tv series.

It kind of fits with the MCU model though. 

I don't see how that's weird. Who's watching these TV series without being caught up on at least the majority of the MCU (or is that the MCM now?)?

Dr. Strange? Good one BB.

It is in 25 other properties release, including Black Widow.

(https://i.redd.it/mplhk6oj08b71.jpg)

That's a lot of MCU content.

lol i like the guardians of the galaxy holiday special :D

Loki so far in the future. Wow. Where's this from? That would surprise me.

Quote from: Habbaku on July 15, 2021, 02:00:21 PM
I don't see how that's weird. Who's watching these TV series without being caught up on at least the majority of the MCU (or is that the MCM now?)?

Me  :Embarrass:

Quote from: Barrister on July 15, 2021, 01:42:49 PM
I'm curious how a Loki Season 2 is going to work.


The first two series, WV and FatWS, told self-contained stories.  Kind of like a movie but longer.  That meshes very well with the MCU being a whole series of movies.

But Loki set up the big baddie as Kang (as I understand it).  Kang has already been announced as the villain of Dr Strange 2.

So I guess you'll be required to watch Dr Strange 2 before seeing the next season of Loki?  Funny way to run a tv series.

They (Disney) aren't running a TV series; they are running a premium content subscription service with merchandising links across a multi-media empire.  If people go the theatre to see a motion picture on a big screen, that's nice and brings in some incremental revenue.  But it isn't essential.

I should note that as someone who has no idea who Kang is, I really enjoyed the season finale.

For perspective, Disney's movie studio operations generated about $4.8 billion in revenue from theatrical releases in the last pre-COVID year, a record number driven by Avengers:Endgame.  (it obviously went way down in 2020).

But in 2020 direct-to-consumer revenue hit over 16 billion, including over $7.5 billion in subscription revenues.  That is probably around $1 billion per month by now. 

So whether the next Thor movie makes $400 m or $500m in theaters doesn't make that big a difference in the grand scheme.

Quote from: crazy canuck on July 15, 2021, 03:48:13 PM

Quote from: Habbaku on July 15, 2021, 02:00:21 PM
I don't see how that's weird. Who's watching these TV series without being caught up on at least the majority of the MCU (or is that the MCM now?)?

Me  :Embarrass:

Monster!

I still can't believe Moon Knight is getting a TV series. One of the few comics I had as a child.

Anyone been watching "What if?"

Yep. Pretty fun fluff, but still fluff at the end of the day.

Not sure I cared for the T'Challa-Lord episode much, though.

Quote from: Habbaku on August 26, 2021, 09:23:51 PM
Yep. Pretty fun fluff, but still fluff at the end of the day.

Not sure I cared for the T'Challa-Lord episode much, though.

The "T'Challa talked Thanos out of universal genocide, but he still thinks it could have worked" bit was pretty funny.

With so many returning voices, the ones that didn't are pretty jarring though.

Spiderman: No Way Home looks bananas in the best way!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgU7P6o-GkM

Yes. Its pointless semi-fun stuff. Not must watch at all.
Its sad they're not even dealing with logical what ifs of plots working out differently. Instead its just "Lets mash up this character and this character. Fun!"

I disagree that it is fluff. Its the all important introduction to the multiverse for the MCU.

I expect all of it will be important after the new Spider Man and Dr Strange movies.

Quote from: Tyr on August 27, 2021, 03:11:50 AM
Yes. Its pointless semi-fun stuff. Not must watch at all.
Its sad they're not even dealing with logical what ifs of plots working out differently. Instead its just "Lets mash up this character and this character. Fun!"

But you know - my kids commented on this after episode 2: 'well it's just if one character became another character'.

Episode 3 was not that at all.

We'll see if it becomes important to the overall MCU or not.  But it's fun.

Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2021, 12:09:47 AM
We'll see if it becomes important to the overall MCU or not.  But it's fun.

It ain't canon, so it's not important in the overall MCU.

Quote from: viper37 on August 28, 2021, 09:02:06 AM

Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2021, 12:09:47 AM
We'll see if it becomes important to the overall MCU or not.  But it's fun.

It ain't canon, so it's not important in the overall MCU.

What do you mean "it ain't canon"?

The multiverse is now very much canon in the MCU, thanks to the Loki show.  It sure looks like the new Spiderman movie is going to have alternate versions of characters - the trailer shows us Doc Oc from the Tobey Maguire Spider Man movies.

It wouldn't shock me to see, lets think, Captain Carter make a brief appearance in some live action MCU show or movie at some point.

I've read rumors that Captain Carter will be in Universe of Madness. But it might just be Internet baloney.

Quote from: viper37 on August 28, 2021, 09:02:06 AM

Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2021, 12:09:47 AM
We'll see if it becomes important to the overall MCU or not.  But it's fun.

It ain't canon, so it's not important in the overall MCU.

All Disney+ shows are MCU canon.

Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2021, 12:08:00 PM

Quote from: viper37 on August 28, 2021, 09:02:06 AM

Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2021, 12:09:47 AM
We'll see if it becomes important to the overall MCU or not.  But it's fun.

It ain't canon, so it's not important in the overall MCU.

What do you mean "it ain't canon"?

The multiverse is now very much canon in the MCU, thanks to the Loki show.  It sure looks like the new Spiderman movie is going to have alternate versions of characters - the trailer shows us Doc Oc from the Tobey Maguire Spider Man movies.

It wouldn't shock me to see, lets think, Captain Carter make a brief appearance in some live action MCU show or movie at some point.

I stand corrected.  I had previously read it wasn't cannon, but it seems it is indeed part of the MCU.

There's canon. Then there's canon that matters.
A story about some alcoholic asteroid miner and his cute robot side kick staying out of trouble in a safe law abiding part of the star wars universe could be Canon.
But it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the main films at all.

Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2021, 05:05:06 PM
There's canon. Then there's canon that matters.
A story about some alcoholic asteroid miner and his cute robot side kick staying out of trouble in a safe law abiding part of the star wars universe could be Canon.
But it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the main films at all.

yeah. but so far Marvel has interconnected everything that is MCU.

Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2021, 05:05:06 PM
There's canon. Then there's canon that matters.
A story about some alcoholic asteroid miner and his cute robot side kick staying out of trouble in a safe law abiding part of the star wars universe could be Canon.
But it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the main films at all.

Not true. A butterfly flapping its wings on Naboo resulted in the destruction of Alderaan.

Yeah. This episode was a bit better in theory. Did some interesting things like the killer twist-would have been nice to switch perspectives and tell the story of the true what if once that was revealed.
Something with the execution left me a bit cold though.
And I am increasingly coming back to my old anti shared universe thinking, mostly relevant to dc but increasingly so with marvel too as it bloats: captain marvel is a problem. She just doesn't fit.
This eternals coming up... I know little of them but it has me somewhat worried. When they inevitably try to crowbar the xmen in too-that just doesn't work.
Hopefully they can use the multiverse well to properly handle this.

Quote from: viper37 on August 29, 2021, 05:52:38 PM

Quote from: Tyr on August 29, 2021, 05:05:06 PM
There's canon. Then there's canon that matters.
A story about some alcoholic asteroid miner and his cute robot side kick staying out of trouble in a safe law abiding part of the star wars universe could be Canon.
But it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact the main films at all.

yeah. but so far Marvel has interconnected everything that is MCU.

.

So far. Ish. Some films more than others.
Most of what if I can't see being brought up again and even those bits that do when mainline films do the multiverse-I don't see what if mattering for that.

So Episode 4 of What If...?


So in the first three episodes things wind up being kind of different, but still wind up in the same place.  Peggy Carter takes over from Steve Rogers, T'Challa takes over from Peter Quill.  Even when all the Avengers are murdered it hints that a new team of heroes will arise.

Not this time.  Now we get to see Dr Strange annihilate the universe.  That was pretty dark.  I liked it.

Interesting that The Watcher actually interacted in this one.  Curious if that means he will take any kind of role in other episodes, or if that was just a one-off.


Anyone going to go see Shang Chi this weekend?

Yeah that ep was good but also bleak.

What if... Zombies?

Starts out kind of fun - it takes place during the opening of Infinity War with Banner returning to earth, but only there are zombies.  Zombie super heroes maintain their super powers and most of their intellect, but have a ravenous hunger for human flesh.  It turns out that Janet Van Dyne returned from the Quantum Realm infected with a zombie virus.

Again another pretty dark episode, although Paul Rudd/Ant-Man lets loose with a TON of corny jokes throughout.  Lots of hero-on-zombie-hero action.  We get to see the Wasp explode someone by going inside them then growing big.

Show ends on a hopeful note with our remaining heros have a way to cure everyone - then a quick shot of zombie Thanos to show they're all screwed.

Dr strange one - Meh. I guess it's so long since I've seen the film I totally didn't remember he had a dead girlfriend. Not sure I followed all the timey wimey stuff going on.

Zombies - stupid but fun. Why on earth do these zombies keep their powers and some kind of reason? Even hawkeye keeps his bow... It's daft. More the sort of what if I expected, though interesting how eager they consistently are to kill their characters

Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Dr strange one - Meh. I guess it's so long since I've seen the film I totally didn't remember he had a dead girlfriend. Not sure I followed all the timey wimey stuff going on.

Zombies - stupid but fun. Why on earth do these zombies keep their powers and some kind of reason? Even hawkeye keeps his bow... It's daft. More the sort of what if I expected, though interesting how eager they consistently are to kill their characters

Dr Stranger's girlfriend dying was the divergence point.

Quote from: garbon on September 13, 2021, 10:20:14 AM

Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Dr strange one - Meh. I guess it's so long since I've seen the film I totally didn't remember he had a dead girlfriend. Not sure I followed all the timey wimey stuff going on.

Zombies - stupid but fun. Why on earth do these zombies keep their powers and some kind of reason? Even hawkeye keeps his bow... It's daft. More the sort of what if I expected, though interesting how eager they consistently are to kill their characters

Dr Stranger's girlfriend dying was the divergence point.

If you want to get deep in the weeds (and I do) the divergence point was McAdam's character agreeing to go with Strange to whatever event in the first place, which seemingly reconnected the two of them together.  In the movie Strange was alone in that car and the two were not a couple.

Quote from: Barrister on September 13, 2021, 10:25:09 AM

Quote from: garbon on September 13, 2021, 10:20:14 AM

Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2021, 09:35:49 AM
Dr strange one - Meh. I guess it's so long since I've seen the film I totally didn't remember he had a dead girlfriend. Not sure I followed all the timey wimey stuff going on.

Zombies - stupid but fun. Why on earth do these zombies keep their powers and some kind of reason? Even hawkeye keeps his bow... It's daft. More the sort of what if I expected, though interesting how eager they consistently are to kill their characters

Dr Stranger's girlfriend dying was the divergence point.

If you want to get deep in the weeds (and I do) the divergence point was McAdam's character agreeing to go with Strange to whatever event in the first place, which seemingly reconnected the two of them together.  In the movie Strange was alone in that car and the two were not a couple.

I don't. :)

Explains not remembering he had a girlfriend at all.
Though it does make it curious that this was a fixed point since...it clearly wasn't. :hmm:
I guess it explains something about how the multiverse works- will we see versions of characters pissed off they got the bad end of fixed points attacking the mainline characters?

Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2021, 11:06:56 AM
Explains not remembering he had a girlfriend at all.
Though it does make it curious that this was a fixed point since...it clearly wasn't. :hmm:
I guess it explains something about how the multiverse works- will we see versions of characters pissed off they got the bad end of fixed points attacking the mainline characters?

Okay, so I have to admit I didn't remember Rachel McAdams even being in Dr. Strange, so after Ep 4 I had to look up the character.  Her character had been in a relationship with Strange, but broke up with him due to his enormous ego.  The two remained colleagues however.  Strange did invite her to that event but she turned him down.

She was a pretty important character. He spends a lot of time with her before going to Tibet and he meets her again when he comes back to New York and ends up in the hospital.

What if... Killmonger rescued Tony Stark?

I feel like the timeline doesn't really quite match up here (Iron Man came out in 2008), but whatever.

It's an interesting mash-up of the events of Iron Man and Black Panther.  This is a problem with several episodes that it feels like they end mid-way through their story, but none worse than this one - I was like "that's it"?

This can no longer be a coincidence though - the Watcher is more and more visible in each episode.  This one is I think the first time he's not just seen in outline, but as a more fully fleshed out character (although he still doesn't interact with anyone).

They're building to something...

Yeah, I was thinking about the timeline thing too. I guess when the MCU universe has been going for 20 years they're inevitably going to start going like the comics with a fluffy major events constantly in the near past timeline.

The ending on this one was quite the cliff hanger. Looked like they were going to setup for Potts/T'Challa's sister whose name I forget as Iron Lady/Black Panther.

I do wonder though- with the way zombies ended, do all alternate timelines have this inevitable endpoint if things don't go according to plan (sans the GoG one) of Thanos coming and wiping people out?

Hope you're right on building to something.
Watcher gets slaughtered by the conqueror to show how bad he is?

Quote from: Tyr on September 17, 2021, 02:58:52 AM
Yeah, I was thinking about the timeline thing too. I guess when the MCU universe has been going for 20 years they're inevitably going to start going like the comics with a fluffy major events constantly in the near past timeline.

The ending on this one was quite the cliff hanger. Looked like they were going to setup for Potts/T'Challa's sister whose name I forget as Iron Lady/Black Panther.

I do wonder though- with the way zombies ended, do all alternate timelines have this inevitable endpoint if things don't go according to plan (sans the GoG one) of Thanos coming and wiping people out?

Hope you're right on building to something.
Watcher gets slaughtered by the conqueror to show how bad he is?

Well not the second episode, where Thanos is convinced by T'Challa/Star Lord not to go ahead with universal genocide. :lol:

I suspect there might be some kind of multiversal cross-over in the last episode or two, with Captain Carter, T'Challa/Star Lord, Antman/Head-in-a-jar, plus whomever, against some combination of zombies / evil Strange / Killmonger?

This was a fun episode.  Party on, Thor!  Nice palate cleanser after several really dark episodes.

It's crazy they get people like Jeff Goldblum and Taika Waititi to record like 2 lines of dialogue - maybe they're coming back?

But then what's with Ultron/Vision with the Infinity stones?  And the Watcher seemed surprised by this?

I liked the Wiley Coyote/DragonballZesque battle.

I guess we are going into inter dimensional cross overs now. So the watcher can see multiple dimensions but people crossing over is too much for him?

It's the realization that the sacred time line is no longer unique.

Next up is What if... Ultron won?

So I haven't seen it, but based just on the title and the end scene from the last episode it does look like What If? is going multi-dimensional.  Second to last episode, so I'm guessing this is a two-parter.

Spoilers to follow (as if it didn't say in the thread title):


Yup - it's a 2-parter.  It's no longer self-contained stories.  And The Watcher breaks his vow and is going to start interfering.

It's the nature of a show like this to quibble, so...  I thought from Loki that Infinity Stones only work in their own universe?  So how can Ultron be so powerful and go smashing through different realities at will?

And in fighting Infinity-stoned, vibranium-bodied Ultron I can understand how Evil Dr Strange would be helpful.  But Captain Carter, or StarLord/T'Challa?  And who else would they bring back?  Killmonger/Black Panther I guess?  Party Thor?

My thoughts - they dealt with Thanos really stupidly there. Meant to be a joke I guess?
The Watcher being dragged into the story... I guess we saw it coming but interesting anyway. Odd how ultron couldn't /didn't kill him.
I do like how they've brought back ultron as a major threat. Age of ultron has suffered with time as the in between film. Ultron was just some minor villain of the week in light of Thanos.
Also I like his anime aesthetic.
I'm not quite sure what was up with the black widow/hawk world and ultimate ultron world. They seem to be the same yet ultimate ultron destroyed everything already?...
Also not getting how they phoned somebody. And how this episode fits in with the end of party thor. Alternate Watcher versions?

Edit err hawkeye not hawk. Marvel really like birds of prey.

Quote from: Tyr on September 30, 2021, 05:03:16 PM
My thoughts - they dealt with Thanos really stupidly there. Meant to be a joke I guess?
The Watcher being dragged into the story... I guess we saw it coming but interesting anyway. Odd how ultron couldn't /didn't kill him.
I do like how they've brought back ultron as a major threat. Age of ultron has suffered with time as the in between film. Ultron was just some minor villain of the week in light of Thanos.
Also I like his anime aesthetic.

It does beg the question of why Vision couldn't have similarly sliced Thanos in half.  I'd have to go back to that movie and watch that scene.  But from a story-telling perspective I think they just didn't want to spend yet more time re-visiting the Infinity War storyline, and get on to something different.

I think Age of Ultron suffered because it just wasn't that good a movie.  I have a notion there were some behind the scene conflicts.

Spoiler for Venom: Let there be Carnage.

[spoiler]Venom is pulled into the MCU by Dr. Strange's spell in an after credit scene[/spoiler]

Quote from: Barrister on September 30, 2021, 05:15:32 PM
It does beg the question of

:bleeding:

What if... The watcher broke his oath?

So yup - we get the Guardians of the Multiverse.  Captain Carter, T'Challa/Starlord, Evil Dr. Strange, King Killmonger, Party Thor, Black Widow from the zombie universe - and some version of Gamora?  Apparently they had planned on having 10 episodes, and the Gamora one was cut.

So the scenes of The Watcher recruiting his heroes were kind of fun, as was everyone interacting (albeit briefly) as the team gets ready, but very quickly it turns to an extended action scene.  Where the power of the infinity stones never really makes much sense - doesn't Ultron just need to snap his fingers to make everyone disappear?  And how can Ultron use the Time Stone, but Evil Strange also use his Time Stone?  Whatever - don't think about it too hard, because the writers just want to get to the action.

What I do really like is that every episode which seemed to end on a cliffhanger, was nicely given a wrap-up.  We see Captain Carter return (and seemingly rescue Steve Rogers), T'Challa rescues Peter Quill from Ego, different Black Widow returns to help fight Loki after all the Avengers will killed by Hank Pym, Shuri and Pepper Potts were fighting to remove Killmonger, and of course Ultron doesn't have 6 Infinity Stones any longer.

Fun episode.

Enjoying Hawkeye more than expected. It's not reinventing the wheel or anything, but the leads are likeable and for once, I appreciate that the baddies (so far) are street-level thugs and not intergalactic whatevers. I missed smaller, grounded, Marvel of i.e. the Netflix shows.

Speaking of which [spoiler]it seems they are reintroducing D'Onofrio's Kingpin in this one? At least Kingpin's presence is very heavily hinted at in last week's episode[/spoiler]

Quote from: celedhring on December 07, 2021, 09:37:41 AM
Enjoying Hawkeye more than expected. It's not reinventing the wheel or anything, but the leads are likeable and for once, I appreciate that the baddies (so far) are street-level thugs and not intergalactic whatevers. I missed smaller, grounded, Marvel of i.e. the Netflix shows.

Speaking of which [spoiler]it seems they are reintroducing D'Onofrio's Kingpin in this one? At least Kingpin's presence is very heavily hinted at in last week's episode[/spoiler]

Marvel already confirmed that Charlie Cox from the Netflix Daredevil show will reprise the role for the Hawkeye show.

That would be stellar. Add Ritter and Bernthal to the list and you'd make my day.

I'd like Missick too.

Reading the news again it seems that the confirmation was for new MCU productions in general (rumoured to be the new Spiderman films), but not confirmed necessarily to be for the Hawkeye show.

Quote from: The Larch on December 07, 2021, 09:53:12 AM

Quote from: celedhring on December 07, 2021, 09:37:41 AM
Enjoying Hawkeye more than expected. It's not reinventing the wheel or anything, but the leads are likeable and for once, I appreciate that the baddies (so far) are street-level thugs and not intergalactic whatevers. I missed smaller, grounded, Marvel of i.e. the Netflix shows.

Speaking of which [spoiler]it seems they are reintroducing D'Onofrio's Kingpin in this one? At least Kingpin's presence is very heavily hinted at in last week's episode[/spoiler]

Marvel already confirmed that Charlie Cox from the Netflix Daredevil show will reprise the role for the Hawkeye show.

See no evil, hear no evil.

Quote from: The Larch on December 07, 2021, 10:03:20 AM
Reading the news again it seems that the confirmation was for new MCU productions in general (rumoured to be the new Spiderman films), but not confirmed necessarily to be for the Hawkeye show.

We'll see Florence Pugh reprise her role from Black Widow in Hawkeye, I doubt there's room for more MCU characters.

And Hawkeye is great, so far. :)

I couldn't get into What-if.  Tried the first two episodes, I abandoned midway through the 2nd.

Quote from: viper37 on December 08, 2021, 09:54:55 AM

Quote from: The Larch on December 07, 2021, 10:03:20 AM
Reading the news again it seems that the confirmation was for new MCU productions in general (rumoured to be the new Spiderman films), but not confirmed necessarily to be for the Hawkeye show.

We'll see Florence Pugh reprise her role from Black Widow in Hawkeye, I doubt there's room for more MCU characters.

And Hawkeye is great, so far. :)

I couldn't get into What-if.  Tried the first two episodes, I abandoned midway through the 2nd.

Watch the last 2. If only to understand where the MCU is going.

Allright, I might try.

So, [spoiler]D'Onofrio's Kingpin[/spoiler] confirmed in last episode. Also, Florence Pugh has already stolen the show.

This is quickly becoming my favorite MCU show.

I saw that on my twitter feed (which is something since it was an academic who posted it) and I realized that is just how out of touch I am with cultural mainstreams - I have no idea what that reference means.

Anyone seen Spiderman: No Way Home?

thought its not on wide release until friday?

Quote from: HVC on December 16, 2021, 11:38:53 AM
thought its not on wide release until friday?

It is out here. My colleague saw it last night and really enjoyed it.

The Hawkeye finale was incredibly fun. This show seems to have gone a bit under the radar compared to the previous Disney MCU shows, but I enjoyed it greatly. Good silly fun with likeable characters.

I've been watching it at a slower pace. While I think both the leads are fun, I still have a mental ock about how Hawkeye is one of the least interesting marvel heroes. -_-

Quote from: celedhring on December 23, 2021, 03:27:05 AM
The Hawkeye finale was incredibly fun. This show seems to have gone a bit under the radar compared to the previous Disney MCU shows, but I enjoyed it greatly. Good silly fun with likeable characters.

Yeah. It was really good. More fun on it's on than even Wandavision. Less important to the MCU tho.

Quote from: garbon on December 23, 2021, 06:42:18 AM
I've been watching it at a slower pace. While I think both the leads are fun, I still have a mental ock about how Hawkeye is one of the least interesting marvel heroes. -_-

He became my favourite character after Iron Man.

He's almost deaf, he bleeds and hurts like a real person, unlike Captain America or Thor who can be thrown around and get back on their feet as if nothing happened. :)

Have finally watched Wandavision, Loki and have started watching "What If". Loved all three shows so far.

So. Hawkeye.
I've finally got around to watching it.
And you know, its just not appealing at all.
I used to love street level heroes. The first series of the Netflix series were great. But my interest in them has just died for some reason in recent years.
I'm struggling through, but it isn't picking up.

I really liked Hawkeye. Loved how jaded he was.

I saw Disney Plus has added all the Netflix marvel series.

I liked the first episode of Moon Knight. I enjoy how the tv shows can be a little more experimental than the films.

Still weird to think that this character got its own show. I only know of Moon Knight from when I was a kid and excited to get a comic of a character that had a connection with Ancient Egypt. :blush:

Apparently Turkish viewers are trying to review bomb the show because it mentioned the Armenian Genocide.

Oh yeah it did get mentioned in a very not important line that also namechecked Hitler, Nero and Pol Pot.

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2022, 04:17:31 AMI liked the first episode of Moon Knight. I enjoy how the tv shows can be a little more experimental than the films.

Still weird to think that this character got its own show. I only know of Moon Knight from when I was a kid and excited to get a comic of a character that had a connection with Ancient Egypt. :blush:

Marvel scrapes the barrel ever more.
And I thought it was weird when they made a Thor movie.

Quote from: Josquius on April 02, 2022, 05:28:29 AM

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2022, 04:17:31 AMI liked the first episode of Moon Knight. I enjoy how the tv shows can be a little more experimental than the films.

Still weird to think that this character got its own show. I only know of Moon Knight from when I was a kid and excited to get a comic of a character that had a connection with Ancient Egypt. :blush:

Marvel scrapes the barrel ever more.
And I thought it was weird when they made a Thor movie.

Let's talk when any of these get a show.

https://www.fortressofsolitude.co.za/worst-comic-book-characters-marvel/

Gotta say episode 1 was better than I expected. Got me interested. It's certainly much better than the last time Isaac played an Egyptian-themed Marvel character.

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2022, 05:31:28 AM

Quote from: Josquius on April 02, 2022, 05:28:29 AM

Quote from: garbon on April 02, 2022, 04:17:31 AMI liked the first episode of Moon Knight. I enjoy how the tv shows can be a little more experimental than the films.

Still weird to think that this character got its own show. I only know of Moon Knight from when I was a kid and excited to get a comic of a character that had a connection with Ancient Egypt. :blush:

Marvel scrapes the barrel ever more.
And I thought it was weird when they made a Thor movie.

Let's talk when any of these get a show.

https://www.fortressofsolitude.co.za/worst-comic-book-characters-marvel/

I can see how leather boy might be popular on some circles :P

Egyptian theme? Anyone freak out about a Latino playing the role yet?

Watched the first ep. Its interesting. I like how they have the balance between comedy and violence, the black outs then oh, beaten up guys, stuff was awesome.

Not getting however how when he transforms to this 'Marc' he suddenly has a superhero costume and an accent.

Quote from: HVC on April 02, 2022, 06:00:02 PMEgyptian theme? Anyone freak out about a Latino playing the role yet?

The director is Egyptian so I guess that helps any silly why are you denying Remi Malek a job complaints?

I've looked up a viewing guide for all movies and series in release order (I prefer watching release rather than chronological order, just personal preference). If I started watching this casually, I am unsure if I would finish before I shuffle off this mortal coil. :D

Quote from: Josquius on April 05, 2022, 07:58:46 AMWatched the first ep. Its interesting. I like how they have the balance between comedy and violence, the black outs then oh, beaten up guys, stuff was awesome.

Not getting however how when he transforms to this 'Marc' he suddenly has a superhero costume and an accent.

Quote from: HVC on April 02, 2022, 06:00:02 PMEgyptian theme? Anyone freak out about a Latino playing the role yet?

The director is Egyptian so I guess that helps any silly why are you denying Remi Malek a job complaints?

I believe they suggested his faux-British accent is fake (part of thst alter) via the phone call he has.

The character isn't Egyptian. Wiki suggests he's actually Jewish in the comics.

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:12:32 AMI've looked up a viewing guide for all movies and series in release order (I prefer watching release rather than chronological order, just personal preference). If I started watching this casually, I am unsure if I would finish before I shuffle off this mortal coil. :D

We watched all the MCU films during lockdown on a casual pace. -_-

Quote from: Josquius on April 05, 2022, 07:58:46 AMNot getting however how when he transforms to this 'Marc' he suddenly has a superhero costume and an accent.

Split personality has always been part of the character. I don't remember the narcolepsy bit, but granted I didn't read that many Moon Knight comics and it was decades ago.

Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2022, 08:29:53 AM

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:12:32 AMI've looked up a viewing guide for all movies and series in release order (I prefer watching release rather than chronological order, just personal preference). If I started watching this casually, I am unsure if I would finish before I shuffle off this mortal coil. :D

We watched all the MCU films during lockdown on a casual pace. -_-

Well, the list includes the shows too - that's where it balloons considerably, esp. in recent years :D

Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2022, 08:29:53 AM

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:12:32 AMI've looked up a viewing guide for all movies and series in release order (I prefer watching release rather than chronological order, just personal preference). If I started watching this casually, I am unsure if I would finish before I shuffle off this mortal coil. :D

We watched all the MCU films during lockdown on a casual pace. -_-

It's a shame we don't do lockdowns anymore. :(

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:48:08 AM

Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2022, 08:29:53 AM

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:12:32 AMI've looked up a viewing guide for all movies and series in release order (I prefer watching release rather than chronological order, just personal preference). If I started watching this casually, I am unsure if I would finish before I shuffle off this mortal coil. :D

We watched all the MCU films during lockdown on a casual pace. -_-

Well, the list includes the shows too - that's where it balloons considerably, esp. in recent years :D

Well, of the old shows, you can skip Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The Defenders is so-so, but it has some Daredevil backstory for the last season.
Of the new shows, you can skip Marvel What If.

Quote from: viper37 on April 05, 2022, 10:35:46 AM

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:48:08 AM

Quote from: garbon on April 05, 2022, 08:29:53 AM

Quote from: Syt on April 05, 2022, 08:12:32 AMI've looked up a viewing guide for all movies and series in release order (I prefer watching release rather than chronological order, just personal preference). If I started watching this casually, I am unsure if I would finish before I shuffle off this mortal coil. :D

We watched all the MCU films during lockdown on a casual pace. -_-

Well, the list includes the shows too - that's where it balloons considerably, esp. in recent years :D

Well, of the old shows, you can skip Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The Defenders is so-so, but it has some Daredevil backstory for the last season.
Of the new shows, you can skip Marvel What If.

Luke Cage series 1 was good. Probably third best after Daredevil and Jessica Jones s1 (possibly Daredevil s2 too)

I rewatched Jessica Jones S1 before it was removed from Netflix and it remains my favorite superhero TV show ever. The only "but" is that at the time Netflix was still doing those 13-episode seasons and there's some filler.

#1- Daredevil
#2- The Punisher
#3- Jessica Jones.

JJ wasn't bad, but the entire first season was dedicated to the allegory of rape, and it was a tad too much.

Quote from: viper37 on April 05, 2022, 10:35:46 AMWell, of the old shows, you can skip Iron Fist and Luke Cage. The Defenders is so-so, but it has some Daredevil backstory for the last season.
Of the new shows, you can skip Marvel What If.

[mild spoilers below]

So the old Netflix shows have a complex history with the overall MCU and are of questionable "canonicity".  At least one Netflix character shows up in the MCU playing as that character, but all of them could probably be skipped.

"What if" should not be skipped.  In my opinion.  Yes it's animated, but many/most of the characters are voiced by the same actors (Iron Man and Black Widow being the noticeable exceptions).

But more than that - with MCU leaning more heavily into the Multiverse, it has been strongly hinted that at least one What If version of a character will be showing up in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.

I haven't been watching the latest marvel shows, and I guess neither is anyone else because I had to bump this thread.

But I thought this was amusing: in the background of the latest She-Hulk episode shot in a restaurant or bar, a CFL game is playing on the TV (Argos vs Alouettes).

This means - the CFL is now canon in the MCU. :D

https://twitter.com/MCTVPodcast/status/1567907345132564481

Nice :)

I've watched them all but didn't know if we had much to discuss.  :blush:

Ms. Marvel was really cool. I didn't watch Moonknight. I'll eventually watch She-Hulk.

Moon knight was fun. Acting was good.

I thought Moon Knight was decent. My friend, who was a huge fan of hte comic, hated it.

Halfway through she hulk and really liking it. Probably the 3rd best marvel series after loki and wandavision (moon Knight in 4th. Good moments and promise but kind of fumbles fears the end)

a thought comes to mind. Wong. Why does he have an American accent? That isn't benedict wongs accent and the character I believe is meant to be from China.

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on October 16, 2022, 07:35:58 PMThe finale of She-Hulk was pretty lame. 

I thought it was a little disappointing but then I also think it was a good criticism and pivot from the standard fare...and fit with how the show and been.

I liked the finale.
Marvel finales by and large suck. It was a nice subversion of that. Though that the head of marvel is called Kevin and wears a cap I did not know. A bit up their own arse.

I just finished She-Hulk yesterday, and I quite enjoyed it. It helps that it's a character I've always enjoyed, and that he show has a comedic tone and low stakes. It's great being able to take a peek at the more down to earth part of the MCU, and having minor canon characters showing up, it makes the whole world richer. It's also nice not having cosmic threats behind every corner.

I also read it's been lambasted quite a lot by the usual online malcontents, I guess they don't like having a mirror put in front of them.

Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2022, 03:51:50 AMI just finished She-Hulk yesterday, and I quite enjoyed it. It helps that it's a character I've always enjoyed, and that he show has a comedic tone and low stakes. It's great being able to take a peek at the more down to earth part of the MCU, and having minor canon characters showing up, it makes the whole world richer. It's also nice not having cosmic threats behind every corner.

:yes:
This is my big problem with the MCU/shared universe in comics and Justice League as a core concept. How the fuck does every character get to deal with their only cosmic threats and supporting world whilst the others just sit on their hands and do nothing. It was silly enough historically but with the size of the world today its just mad.
Shared universes only work when things are kept low stakes. Its totally believable that City X has street-level superhero A who on a special occasion goes to visit City Y and hooks up with superhero B.
Introducing the Xmen to the MCU will be particularly ridiculous unless its done via the multiverse.

QuoteI also read it's been lambasted quite a lot by the usual online malcontents, I guess they don't like having a mirror put in front of them.

I'd heard there was a lot of early hate, review bombing before screening, etc...
I particularly recall directly seeing absolute rage at the trailer where she upstages Hulk in the training segment despite it being pretty bloody obvious Hulk wasn't giving it his all in casually tossing a rock one handed.
But I've also read they largely shut up as it became clear the show was mocking them.

Quote from: Josquius on October 27, 2022, 03:59:07 AM

Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2022, 03:51:50 AMI just finished She-Hulk yesterday, and I quite enjoyed it. It helps that it's a character I've always enjoyed, and that he show has a comedic tone and low stakes. It's great being able to take a peek at the more down to earth part of the MCU, and having minor canon characters showing up, it makes the whole world richer. It's also nice not having cosmic threats behind every corner.

:yes:
This is my big problem with the MCU/shared universe in comics and Justice League as a core concept. How the fuck does every character get to deal with their only cosmic threats and supporting world whilst the others just sit on their hands and do nothing. It was silly enough historically but with the size of the world today its just mad.
Shared universes only work when things are kept low stakes. Its totally believable that City X has street-level superhero A who on a special occasion goes to visit City Y and hooks up with superhero B.
Introducing the Xmen to the MCU will be particularly ridiculous unless its done via the multiverse.

It's the traditional superhero stakes inflation, happens to so many of them. The biggest culprit would be Spiderman, who starts basically at the lowest scale of superheroes, a kid with a home made costume that fights crime in the streets. Inevitably as time passed he ended up involved in cosmic and multi-dimensional plots, while simultaneously being prevented by the powers that be in the comic book world from truly maturing, being kept in an eternal late teens-early adulthood time loop.

Quote

QuoteI also read it's been lambasted quite a lot by the usual online malcontents, I guess they don't like having a mirror put in front of them.

I'd heard there was a lot of early hate, review bombing before screening, etc...
I particularly recall directly seeing absolute rage at the trailer where she upstages Hulk in the training segment despite it being pretty bloody obvious Hulk wasn't giving it his all in casually tossing a rock one handed.
But I've also read they largely shut up as it became clear the show was mocking them.

Those were the initial criticisms, yeah. Already when the trailer came out some were already foaming at the mouth about how She-Hulk "disrespected" Hulk. But these criticism have continued, you have tons of Youtube videos lambasting the show to the very last episode.


Also, another point I've just heard on how She-Hulk is different from the rest of the MCU. She's, it seems, one of the very few MCU character who has canonically fucked during their show/film.  :lol: :perv: Off the top of my head only Jessica Jones and Luke Cage are in that same group, but I haven't watched every show and film.

To be frank I thought it was poorly written. I get what they were aiming for, and I think it was a good take, but the writing just wasn't good enough. It felt like discount bin Phoebe-Waller Bridge.

The whole "WOKE CULTURE IS RUINING MARVEL" noise is just ridiculous though. The fact it's not another male fantasy superhero extravaganza is the one saving grace the show has.

Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2022, 04:49:45 AMTo be frank I thought it was poorly written. I get what they were aiming for, and I think it was a good take, but the writing just wasn't good enough. It felt like discount bin Phoebe-Waller Bridge.

Any particular issue of bad writing comes to your mind? Some of the earlier episodes are not great, and the court scenes are pretty cringey and played for laughs mostly (I read that the writers for the show came mostly from sitcoms, and didn't have a good grasp on how to write compelling trial scenes). Or do you means specifically about the 4th wall breaking sections? Did you watch the finale?

And Phoebe Waller Bridge is... :unsure:

I'm not sure to what extent I'd put She-Hulk in same category as PWB's tragic, quirky, sad girl mode.

Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2022, 04:55:06 AM

Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2022, 04:49:45 AMTo be frank I thought it was poorly written. I get what they were aiming for, and I think it was a good take, but the writing just wasn't good enough. It felt like discount bin Phoebe-Waller Bridge.

Any particular issue of bad writing comes to your mind? Some of the earlier episodes are not great, and the court scenes are pretty cringey and played for laughs mostly (I read that the writers for the show came mostly from sitcoms, and didn't have a good grasp on how to write compelling trial scenes). Or do you means specifically about the 4th wall breaking sections? Did you watch the finale?

And Phoebe Waller Bridge is... :unsure:

I watched the finale. It actually encapsulates most of my issues with the show. The whole meta part? Awesome. But then after the critique they just cut to the end and everybody is arrested, some jokes, oh look, Hulk has a son now! All without actually you know, putting in there what they believe the show should be about, or giving us any kind of closure. It's essentially just another joke. It echoes the many, many instances when the show seems to try to get itself into interesting territory (say, She-Hulk's personal life), but everything ends up being played for laughs, an action scene, without any real emotional payoff. Which is... a very Marvel thing to do. You can do comedy and emotion at the same time, but these writers didn't manage it.

Quote from: garbon on October 27, 2022, 04:59:42 AMI'm not sure to what extent I'd put She-Hulk in same category as PWB's tragic, quirky, sad girl mode.

The writers have openly said they were inspired by Fleabag (nothing wrong with that, I love that show). I mean, it's pretty obvious. It's Marvel so it's not going to get as sad/tragic as Fleabag, but the whole confessional thing and breaking the 4th wall is there.

Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2022, 05:11:39 AM

Quote from: garbon on October 27, 2022, 04:59:42 AMI'm not sure to what extent I'd put She-Hulk in same category as PWB's tragic, quirky, sad girl mode.

The writers have openly said they were inspired by Fleabag (nothing wrong with that, I love that show). I mean, it's pretty obvious. It's Marvel so it's not going to get as sad/tragic as Fleabag, but the whole confessional thing and breaking the 4th wall is there.

Got it if they've cited that as their inspiration. Otherwise, I'd be like the examples you've given as her 'signature' are basically very similar to Michaela Cole's Chewing Gum that came out earlier than Fleabag.

Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2022, 05:11:39 AM

Quote from: garbon on October 27, 2022, 04:59:42 AMI'm not sure to what extent I'd put She-Hulk in same category as PWB's tragic, quirky, sad girl mode.

The writers have openly said they were inspired by Fleabag (nothing wrong with that, I love that show). I mean, it's pretty obvious. It's Marvel so it's not going to get as sad/tragic as Fleabag, but the whole confessional thing and breaking the 4th wall is there.

She-Hulk has been breaking the 4th wall in her comics since the 90s, it's not something new to the character.

Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2022, 04:55:06 AM

Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2022, 04:49:45 AMTo be frank I thought it was poorly written. I get what they were aiming for, and I think it was a good take, but the writing just wasn't good enough. It felt like discount bin Phoebe-Waller Bridge.

Any particular issue of bad writing comes to your mind?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsw0PleILoA

Quote from: viper37 on November 01, 2022, 09:26:38 AM

Quote from: The Larch on October 27, 2022, 04:55:06 AM

Quote from: celedhring on October 27, 2022, 04:49:45 AMTo be frank I thought it was poorly written. I get what they were aiming for, and I think it was a good take, but the writing just wasn't good enough. It felt like discount bin Phoebe-Waller Bridge.

Any particular issue of bad writing comes to your mind?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsw0PleILoA

Nah.

Last night I watched a "Marvel special presentation" called "Werewolf by night" that I just discovered existed. Apparently it's the first of a series of one off specials that Marvel will start putting out from now on periodically. This is the first one, and it's a sort of Halloween special, with the next one being a Guardians of the Galaxy Christmas special.


I personally think it was great! It was nothing like your standard Marvel fare. For starters, it's less than one hour long, and completely disconnected from the rest of the MCU (for the moment), and employs some lesser known characters from the Marvel vaults. The feel is that of a 1930s-40s Universal horror film, with some Del Toro sprinkled around for taste. It is done almost completely in B & W, with some great atmosphere and cinematography, and it's actually much bloodier than your standard Marvel stuff.

It stars Gael García Bernal as Jack Russell (a legacy Marvel horror character from the 50s that was revived in the 70s once the Comics Code started to loosen up), a monster hunter with a dark secret, and Laura Donnelly as Elsa Bloodstone (a newer Marvel character created in 2001 which is a sort of Lara Croft/Buffy crossover), the daughter of a legendary monster hunter from whom she got estranged, who meet at the Bloodstone's manor for the reading of the will of Ulysses Bloodstone, Elsa's late father and worlwide leader of a society of monster hunters.

Being so short, it can feel a bit rushed and lacking in background (for instance, you're barely told anything on how the monster hunter society seems to work), bu it makes sure that doesn't overstay its welcome, and leaves a pretty good (and bloody!) taste in your mouth. If the other one off specials are going to be done this way, then we're in for a few treats.

Haven't got around to watching it yet but marvel introducing its "horror" franchises really stinks of a massive shark jump.

Quote from: Josquius on November 05, 2022, 04:06:43 PMHaven't got around to watching it yet but marvel introducing its "horror" franchises really stinks of a massive shark jump.

I know you have no other setting but exceedingly negative, but it doesn't hurt to try to see the good side of things every once in a while.  :P

Quote from: The Larch on November 05, 2022, 04:18:27 PM

Quote from: Josquius on November 05, 2022, 04:06:43 PMHaven't got around to watching it yet but marvel introducing its "horror" franchises really stinks of a massive shark jump.

I know you have no other setting but exceedingly negative, but it doesn't hurt to try to see the good side of things every once in a while.  :P

I don't think that's true. I'm just honest and see more value in noting the flaws to be fixed :p

Also my dislike of shared universes is well established.

Moon Knight was the last Marvel content I enjoyed. I already didn't think they were taking themselves seriously enough; She-Hulk and Love and Thunder made it worse.

Saw Black Panther 2 last night. Loved it. Maybe not as much as the first film (which felt a bit more novel) but happy to go back to Afro-futurism where America and the wider West are shunted to the side.

Spoiler:
Only main drawback was it felt like they didn't explore enough the Killmonger piece. Emotionally, I was ready for a bloodbath of vengeance.

Quote from: Barrister on August 26, 2021, 09:17:31 PMAnyone been watching "What if?"

Did anyone watch What if - season 2?

It came out over the Christmas break, with an episode per day.  Boys and I only finished watching it last night.  First Marvel TV series we've watched in awhile.  Heck - given how this thread hasn't been active since 2022 it's kind of telling how interest in the MCU has died off.

Anyways - Season 2 was also pretty enjoyable.  Trying to avoid spoilers there was an enormous multi-universal bad guy battle at the end that I feel like you could spend hours going through frame by frame to pick out each and every character.

Once you get to this kind of multiversal power levels things no longer make any sense power-wise.  You'd think the characters could do all kinds of crazy things, which they sometimes do, but mostly they just shoot big beams of energy at each other.

Definitely some fun episodes, and the voice actors seem to be having a blast.  One where Iron Man crashes into Sakaar again features Jeff Gloodbloom chewing on scenery.  John Favreau as Happy Hogan returns in a Christmas/Die Hard homage/rip-off is great (and Favreau must be having a blast).  Cate Blanchett returns as Hela, is stripped of her powers and sent to earth is also great, where Blanchett plays Hela as some kind of entitled valley girl.

I did want to talk about one episode that I found very interesting: What if... Kahhori reshaped the world?  They introduce a brand new hero, Kahhori, a First Nations woman living in early era of contact.  She comes into contact with pieces of the Tesseract and gains tremendous powers.  Ultimately she beats back the Spanish Conquistadors, goes to Spain to force Queen Isabella to make peace with the new world.

IIRC this is the only brand new character they've really introduced in What If? and you can tell they're proud of her - she features very prominently in the final episode.  What is really cool I think is the entire episode is dubbed - Kahhori and her people are speaking in Mohawk, while the Conqustadors are speaking in Spanish.  Not that I know them but I love First Nations languages, so it was really cool to see one shown so prominently.

But two nits to pick:

1. Kahori's powers coming from exposure to the Tesseract.  OK, sure.  Makes sense.  But by the end she's going toe-to-toe with characters that seem to be wielding pretty ridiculous levels of power.  But then as I already said the power in this show don' make sense period.

2. As much as I said having so much of the dialogue in Mohawk is cool... the Mohawk never encountered the Spanish!  They're much to far north.  As well Mohawk territory is inland (or at least by the Great Lakes), whereas there are shots of the Spanish at the beach interacting with the First Nations people.  (as well I could argue that the Mohawk were not the most peaceful FN, but that's a very minor point).  I'm going to chalk it up to the fact that probably the indigenous languages of the American South-East are almost certainly dead languages, whereas Mohawk is still a living language.

3. That being said, Kahhori going to Spain to kick Queen Isabella's ass seemed like the kind of revisionism of Inglorious Basterds where Jewish-American soldiers very ahistorically brutally murder Hitler - kind of a feel-good revenge.

There are Mohawk nations on the shores of the Saint-Laurent, right next to Montreal, which makes it slightly more realistic.

Leaving aside the fact that Mohawks (or at least, St. Lawrence Iroquoians) may very well have encountered Spanish people in the 16th century (certainly Basque fishermen), Mohawk is a good stand-in for Tuscarora, an Iroquoian indigenous language spoken in North Carolina, an area definitely visited by the Spanish.

Quote from: Barrister on January 05, 2024, 12:24:29 PM

Quote from: Barrister on August 26, 2021, 09:17:31 PMAnyone been watching "What if?"

Did anyone watch What if - season 2?

It came out over the Christmas break, with an episode per day.  Boys and I only finished watching it last night.  First Marvel TV series we've watched in awhile.  Heck - given how this thread hasn't been active since 2022 it's kind of telling how interest in the MCU has died off.

Anyways - Season 2 was also pretty enjoyable.  Trying to avoid spoilers there was an enormous multi-universal bad guy battle at the end that I feel like you could spend hours going through frame by frame to pick out each and every character.

Once you get to this kind of multiversal power levels things no longer make any sense power-wise.  You'd think the characters could do all kinds of crazy things, which they sometimes do, but mostly they just shoot big beams of energy at each other.

Definitely some fun episodes, and the voice actors seem to be having a blast.  One where Iron Man crashes into Sakaar again features Jeff Gloodbloom chewing on scenery.  John Favreau as Happy Hogan returns in a Christmas/Die Hard homage/rip-off is great (and Favreau must be having a blast).  Cate Blanchett returns as Hela, is stripped of her powers and sent to earth is also great, where Blanchett plays Hela as some kind of entitled valley girl.

I did want to talk about one episode that I found very interesting: What if... Kahhori reshaped the world?  They introduce a brand new hero, Kahhori, a First Nations woman living in early era of contact.  She comes into contact with pieces of the Tesseract and gains tremendous powers.  Ultimately she beats back the Spanish Conquistadors, goes to Spain to force Queen Isabella to make peace with the new world.

IIRC this is the only brand new character they've really introduced in What If? and you can tell they're proud of her - she features very prominently in the final episode.  What is really cool I think is the entire episode is dubbed - Kahhori and her people are speaking in Mohawk, while the Conqustadors are speaking in Spanish.  Not that I know them but I love First Nations languages, so it was really cool to see one shown so prominently.

Haven't seen that episode yet, have watched the first 5 episodes and enjoyed them a lot.

If you like first nation languages on screen, watch Predator Prey. There's a comanche dub.

Secondly, Captain Marvel got her powers via the tesseract. Scarlet Witch got her powers from the mind stone. It's cannon that humans being exposed to an infinity stone can grant them incredible power.

I've since watched episodes 6, 7 and 8 and they're really good. Liking this season a lot.

I've tried to get into what if series 2, I liked the first series.
But the first ep is a 45 minute long noir piece featuring characters and settings I don't know or care about. Which is challenging.

Watching loki series 2 though. Can hardly remember what happened.
Episode 3 really drills home how I hate the marvel splash screen via its old timey take on it.

Quote from: Josquius on January 08, 2024, 07:59:41 AMI've tried to get into what if series 2, I liked the first series.
But the first ep is a 45 minute long noir piece featuring characters and settings I don't know or care about. Which is challenging.

I don't know what to tell you - S. 2 E. 1 was great.  It was Marvel mixed with Blade Runner.

"What if...?" Season 3 teaser already out

3 minute clip of the Winter Soldier on a road trip with Red Guardian.

Perhaps a sequel to the 80s Avengers episode?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AruNEvdYbpQ

I'm pretty underwhelmed by that Deadpool trailer.  :mellow:

Don't care for Deadpool. First couple films were fun, but Reynolds has been playing Deadpool in nearly every film for the remainder of his career and I'm bored of the shtick at this point.

To be fair he played that character before deadpool too :D

I like deadpool. It seems especially required now we've passed peak marvel and the output has gone into a huge decline.
A lot of jokes to be made there.

Deadpool misses a lot of clear avenues to make fun but it does hit enough to be amusing.

Looked like Doctor Doom was in it?  I'm down with that.

I just watched The Marvels. I think it was definitely unfairly treated. Sure it has some of the too much goofy humor that many of the recent Marvel productions have suffered from - like when the music from Cats was playing. But that hardly makes it unique. Only reason I didn't see it in theatres is Disney eventually puts everthing on D+ and I don't have fomo so no reason to spend unnecessarily.

Of course, I think it helped that I like Monica Rambeau and Kamala Khan + her mother. Captain Marvel is alright and then the villain was just rather lame.