Need a thread to talk WW without the need for spoiler tags....
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2016, 10:10:00 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on December 06, 2016, 02:27:52 AM
Elaborate.
1. Maeve is convinced she is a bot when the tech shows her the program that generates her speech. Then she immediately starts to plot her escape. No explanation is given for how she escapes the bounds of her programming and achieves independent, self-aware thought.
It turns out she wasn't indepenent at all though. Her "breakout" is actually part of the story, and her actions were in fact coded into her.
Now, there is some ambiguity over whether or not Ford is actually aware that she has "woken" or is about to (it seems to be a continuum), and he might be piggy backing his deterministic code onto that framework. He does this with Bernard as well, of course - where Bernard is clearly woken, but still has coded imperatives he has to fulfill.
Quote
2. No way a partnership between two engineers could finance the start up of Westworld. Gigantic tracts of land, hundreds of 3D printed droids with massively complex programming. Squeelions of dollars to start up.
Not a logical disconnect, just something not explained. Who knows how Westworld was originally financed?
Quote
3. In all the scenes where the hosts go off the rez no mention is made of the guests. Some of them should be freaked out, want their money back, whatever, but they don't really exist.
Again, not a logical disconnect, just something left untold. But yeah, it does seem like there should be a lot more disruption that what is shown.
On the other hand, it does seem clear that there are levels to the guest experience, and multiple layered story lines. Most guests, I suspect, just show up to fuck and shoot some people, and are well served by the simpler level storylines that don't go much beyond the immediate town and evirons, while most of the hosts going off rez is happening in the context of the more complex storyline.
They do in fact show a LOT of disruption that is very concerning to investors in fact, when Maeve for instance shoots up the base town...
Quote
4. The previously mentioned logistics of transporting the hosts down to the naked diagonostic rooms and back. That should take time, interfere with guest interaction, etc.
Yeah, there has to be some kind of faility for this - but again, this is pretty easy to handle.
For example, if a guest shoots a host at 10am, you could simply have the other hosts handle the body "in character". A doc shows up, takes the body off to the local doc shop/morgue, where it is then transported "behind the scenes" to the facilities, and the storyline resets that night.
Quote
5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
I am not even sure what this means.
Quote
6. The Confederados beat up the dickhead boss, but hosts shouldn't be able to inflict violence on guests.
No, the hosts cannot inflict permanent harm on the guests.
And I suspect the level of incidental "harm" is based on the depth of the storyline. Probably none in the vanilla stuff for Mom and Pop and Kids, a bit more discomfort out in the sticks where the "real" stuff is going on...
Quote
7. In episode 2 Teddy and the chick guest with the wussy husband run into the spectral viking zombie whatever guys associated with Wyatt. What happens to the chick?
I don't recall this.
Quote
8. The ease with which Maeve manipulates the two techs is ridiculous.
Agreed. The techs are both idiots, and the Asian guys motivation doesn't even make much sense.
Quote
9. The little Indian kids who had tech dolls and the little Mexican girl who was aware and helped Teh Man in Black find the maze were not explained by the story about a limited number of hosts with the old coding.
Both part of Ford's Master Plan for the hosts themselves, and not intended for interaction with humans.
I was wondering if this was inspired by your inability to use them properly. :P
:whistle:
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
There are scenes that appear to be flashbacks/hallucinations, and others that appear to be real time.
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
Well, I think her interactions with Will happened in the past, a long time in the past since there were presumably many years between the time that Will "lost" Dolores and became the Man in Black.
So I think Dolores conversations with Bernard happened after her interactions with Will, at least many of them.
What was the idea behind Will sending Douchebag wanna be brother in law off on the horse naked?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2016, 10:57:40 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
There are scenes that appear to be flashbacks/hallucinations, and others that appear to be real time.
I think you are getting confused by the time shifts. To be fair to you they sometimes happen within the same scene and so until you see the final episode it is a bit confusing.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 11:02:14 AM
What was the idea behind Will sending Douchebag wanna be brother in law off on the horse naked?
He explained it in that very scene. Presumably, William's father-in-law-to-be (IE, Douchebag's father and head of the company) was waiting for them back in town. Seeing his son all trussed up and naked on a horse was supposed to tilt the father towards thinking that Douchebag wasn't in control of himself enough to be in charge of the company. That would position William to ascend in the future.
Chrys Reviews did Westworld, by the way. It's genius as usual:
http://chrysreviews.com/index.php/westworld/
Berkut, on the financing question - I thought the show did a pretty good job of explaining this. There were investors from the start. William caused is family to be a majority investor after his first visit but the family he married into was already a shareholder. Ford also makes a few comments about always having to deal with the investors. I think this is just another time shift issue for Yi because in the early episodes it appears that William and his future brother in law are talking about increasing the family investment in the present rather than soon after the park opened.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 11:01:46 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
Well, I think her interactions with Will happened in the past, a long time in the past since there were presumably many years between the time that Will "lost" Dolores and became the Man in Black.
So I think Dolores conversations with Bernard happened after her interactions with Will, at least many of them.
I think many of those interactions were with Arnold himself. Match her dress with the dress she is wearing in the scenes we know were with Arnold.
I'm trying to figure if Bernard has the knowledge of Arnold or how that all came about, or if Arnold and Bernard are the same and was actually programmed by Ford. I think the latter is unlikely. But if I perceived things right, Arnold was creating something different in the hosts allowing them to achieve consciousness and Bernard seems to have the same goals.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 11:01:46 AM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
Well, I think her interactions with Will happened in the past, a long time in the past since there were presumably many years between the time that Will "lost" Dolores and became the Man in Black.
So I think Dolores conversations with Bernard happened after her interactions with Will, at least many of them.
no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.
Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag? And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.
Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag? And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??
Did you watch the finale? :huh:
Quote from: Habbaku on December 07, 2016, 12:12:01 PM
Did you watch the finale? :huh:
What's your favorite color?
Quote from: Habbaku on December 07, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 11:02:14 AM
What was the idea behind Will sending Douchebag wanna be brother in law off on the horse naked?
He explained it in that very scene. Presumably, William's father-in-law-to-be (IE, Douchebag's father and head of the company) was waiting for them back in town. Seeing his son all trussed up and naked on a horse was supposed to tilt the father towards thinking that Douchebag wasn't in control of himself enough to be in charge of the company. That would position William to ascend in the future.
Ahhh, I missed the part where dad was back in town waiting.
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 07, 2016, 11:27:08 AM
Berkut, on the financing question - I thought the show did a pretty good job of explaining this. There were investors from the start. William caused is family to be a majority investor after his first visit but the family he married into was already a shareholder. Ford also makes a few comments about always having to deal with the investors. I think this is just another time shift issue for Yi because in the early episodes it appears that William and his future brother in law are talking about increasing the family investment in the present rather than soon after the park opened.
Yeah, so much suddenly falls into place one it clicks that all the stuff that happened between Will, Logan, and Dolores happened very early in the parks history.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.
Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag? And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??
There are three time lines. Pre-open (where Arnold and Dolores talk in the cell and where he realizes she's attaining consciousness), post opening were will, Logan, and Dolores do their thing, and present where Maeve does her thing and old man will is looking for the maze. It gets confusing at times when Dolores flashes back and forth between all three timeline in quick succession.
Quote from: HVC on December 07, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.
Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag? And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??
There are three time lines. Pre-open (where Arnold and Dolores talk in the cell and where he realizes she's attaining consciousness), post opening were will, Logan, and Dolores do their thing, and present where Maeve does her thing and old man will is looking for the maze. It gets confusing at times when Dolores flashes back and forth between all three timeline in quick succession.
There were conversations between Dolores and Bernard though, where Arnold tell Dolores to keep the fact that she was remembering things secret. That clearly had to happen after the park was open and functioning.
Now that we know that Ford, who programmed Bernard was working toward that goal, that actually makes sense. Bernard, all along, was being used as a tool by Ford to work towards his particular take on Arnold's vision.
Man, I want to watch this over again...
True. I think Bernard talks to her in the first few episodes in the bigger facility after the update is released. It's small basement room conversation where it's Arnold talking to Dolores.
Fuck, the more I think about this the more I am impressed.
One of the things that really annoys me about shows like this is where there is a conundrum introduce, that is then never really resolved, or resolved in a pantently ridiculous manner (BSG, Lost, etc., etc.)
So far, there have been some things that when introduced I thought were kind of silly, but understood at the time that they were taking a little shortcut, but was ok with that - and now I am realizing that it wasn't a shortcut at all, and it actually makes vastly more sense NOW.
Example: When we first saw the Man in Black, it was clear he was on some kind of "quest" to find the center of the maze. Some "storyline" with a deeper meaning, a more profound point to it than the others.
A couple times we see people he runs into tell him "This is not for you!". Now, this is a standard quest trope - the quester is being told to turn back, as what is ahead is not his business. Quester, of course, always ignores this advice.
In this case though, at the time, I thought "That really doesn't make sense. Why create a deeper storyline with some greater truth that you bury so deeply it seems likely that nobody will ever actually experience? After all, the MIB is a special case customer - he has much more time than any normal customer - and so unless it was made just for him, how does this storyline make any sense at all?"
Well, it turns out that the "this isn't for you" was not a trope at all - it was literally true. Williamn didn't uncover a deeply layered storyline intended for himself, he stumbled on something that truly had nothing to do with him at all. A "storyline" that was never meant for any human. And THAT affected him in a profound manner that I don't think anyone could have predicted, since Arnold and Ford certainly never thought their "maze" would be found or understood by any guest.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: HVC on December 07, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2016, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 12:03:19 PM
no. every conversation Dolores had with the black guy was more than thirty years ago (except in the finale), and the black guy then was arnold. check the clothes on the guy dolores has her private talks with--those are arnold's clothes, not bernard's. arnold died before the park opened. will and logan were in the park after it was opened OR in some type of beta phase, but it was definitely after arnold's death. also, will didn't know about arnold until dolores told him.
Will is the weenie and Logan is the douchebag? And you're saying their whole story line took place in the past??
There are three time lines. Pre-open (where Arnold and Dolores talk in the cell and where he realizes she's attaining consciousness), post opening were will, Logan, and Dolores do their thing, and present where Maeve does her thing and old man will is looking for the maze. It gets confusing at times when Dolores flashes back and forth between all three timeline in quick succession.
There were conversations between Dolores and Bernard though, where Arnold tell Dolores to keep the fact that she was remembering things secret. That clearly had to happen after the park was open and functioning.
Now that we know that Ford, who programmed Bernard was working toward that goal, that actually makes sense. Bernard, all along, was being used as a tool by Ford to work towards his particular take on Arnold's vision.
Man, I want to watch this over again...
I'm not sure what you mean in the first sentence because you say bernard and then arnold. but HVC is right that I do now recall some conversation occurring in the larger room between bernard and dolores pre-final episode. wasn't that a checkup or something? I don't recall the details
dolores started remembering things on three different occasions: (1) with arnold (the conversations they had in that little room), (2) with will & co., and (3) in the present. she remembered things ever since arnold gave her that ability way back with #1. she's been remembering and being rolled back on many different occasions, presumably reaching closer to the truth each time.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 12:18:51 PM
Yeah, so much suddenly falls into place one it clicks that all the stuff that happened between Will, Logan, and Dolores happened very early in the parks history.
One thing that bugged me is that the robots don't seem any different in the storylines that are ~30 years apart. Makes for a better show since the reveal is less obvious, but it seems unlikely the tech hasn't advanced noticeably in that time.
Quote from: Kleves on December 07, 2016, 04:28:27 PM
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 12:18:51 PM
Yeah, so much suddenly falls into place one it clicks that all the stuff that happened between Will, Logan, and Dolores happened very early in the parks history.
One thing that bugged me is that the robots don't seem any different in the storylines that are ~30 years apart. Makes for a better show since the reveal is less obvious, but it seems unlikely the tech hasn't advanced noticeably in that time.
But they are *radically* different! Their insides are not even remotely similar.
The outsides are not terribly different, but since the hosts are intended to be largely indistinguishable from humans, that should not come as any surprise....
And any hosts who are old enough that their functions cannot be upgraded to maintain the overall level of needed immersion are of course retired...hence the giant storage areas of no longer used hosts...
Jonah Nolan has always been a very layered dude. He's got a chess player mentality (clearly visible in early efforts like Memento and The Prestige, more subtly so in Person of Interest). I'm excited to see Westworld, finally (got my sister's HBO Go password).
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
hmmm...not so sure.
When does the Dolores story line with her dad who comes across the photo of Will's wife and goes crazy take place then? That has to be present-day dolores, no?
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2016, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
hmmm...not so sure.
what do you mean you're not sure? do you think the black guy dolores spoke with in that little room was bernard, not arnold? i.e., that was her talking to bernard in the present? if this is what you mean, what makes you think that?
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2016, 07:42:45 PM
When does the Dolores story line with her dad who comes across the photo of Will's wife and goes crazy take place then? That has to be present-day dolores, no?
yes
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2016, 07:42:45 PM
When does the Dolores story line with her dad who comes across the photo of Will's wife and goes crazy take place then? That has to be present-day dolores, no?
yeah, its present day. The photo of wills wife that logan gives him as a reminder in timeline 2 has aged. though in real life I don't know if it would last 30 years
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2016, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
hmmm...not so sure.
what do you mean you're not sure? do you think the black guy dolores spoke with in that little room was bernard, not arnold? i.e., that was her talking to bernard in the present? if this is what you mean, what makes you think that?
I don't think all the conversations were with Arnold. i think some were with Bernard. I'm not sure how. It gets confusing I admit.
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2016, 07:52:49 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 07:44:43 PM
Quote from: Josephus on December 07, 2016, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 10:55:46 AM
Quote5. In particular Clitoris isn't even in the presumably accessible main town, but out in the wilds with her new squeeze, but she gets whisked back and forth constantly.
you mean dolores hanging out with lil will and suddenly whisking away to the dark room and speaking with bernard? that's the multi-timelines at play. dolores, hanging with will, never left will. she had memories of her hundreds of conversations with arnold, which all happened before she met will.
hmmm...not so sure.
what do you mean you're not sure? do you think the black guy dolores spoke with in that little room was bernard, not arnold? i.e., that was her talking to bernard in the present? if this is what you mean, what makes you think that?
I don't think all the conversations were with Arnold. i think some were with Bernard. I'm not sure how. It gets confusing I admit.
You are right, they are not all with Arnold. But LaCroix is not making that claim. It seems pretty clear she is talking to both of them over time. But there are times when she is clearly talking to Arnold himself. You can tell by the room they are in and the dress she is wearing.
and arnold's clothing. arnold wears the black buttoned down. bernard wears different clothing. the clothing stays the same (nearly the same??) between the two and acts as an additional hint that these are two different people.
Quote from: Berkut on December 07, 2016, 12:50:17 PM
Fuck, the more I think about this the more I am impressed.
One of the things that really annoys me about shows like this is where there is a conundrum introduce, that is then never really resolved, or resolved in a pantently ridiculous manner (BSG, Lost, etc., etc.)
So far, there have been some things that when introduced I thought were kind of silly, but understood at the time that they were taking a little shortcut, but was ok with that - and now I am realizing that it wasn't a shortcut at all, and it actually makes vastly more sense NOW.
Example: When we first saw the Man in Black, it was clear he was on some kind of "quest" to find the center of the maze. Some "storyline" with a deeper meaning, a more profound point to it than the others.
A couple times we see people he runs into tell him "This is not for you!". Now, this is a standard quest trope - the quester is being told to turn back, as what is ahead is not his business. Quester, of course, always ignores this advice.
In this case though, at the time, I thought "That really doesn't make sense. Why create a deeper storyline with some greater truth that you bury so deeply it seems likely that nobody will ever actually experience? After all, the MIB is a special case customer - he has much more time than any normal customer - and so unless it was made just for him, how does this storyline make any sense at all?"
Well, it turns out that the "this isn't for you" was not a trope at all - it was literally true. Williamn didn't uncover a deeply layered storyline intended for himself, he stumbled on something that truly had nothing to do with him at all. A "storyline" that was never meant for any human. And THAT affected him in a profound manner that I don't think anyone could have predicted, since Arnold and Ford certainly never thought their "maze" would be found or understood by any guest.
Agreed. when we first heard the maze was not for him I thought it was because he didn't care about the story lines and seemed intent on wrecking them. It wasn't until the big reveal that it all fell into place. A brilliant piece of writing to leave all those ends to be tied up so neatly at the end.
Quote from: LaCroix on December 07, 2016, 09:07:49 PM
and arnold's clothing. arnold wears the black buttoned down. bernard wears different clothing. the clothing stays the same (nearly the same??) between the two and acts as an additional hint that these are two different people.
I hadn't noticed that. I am definitely going to have to find time to watch this again. :)
Quote from: Scipio on December 07, 2016, 05:53:50 PM
Jonah Nolan has always been a very layered dude. He's got a chess player mentality (clearly visible in early efforts like Memento and The Prestige, more subtly so in Person of Interest). I'm excited to see Westworld, finally (got my sister's HBO Go password).
Just finished watching season 1 of Person of Interest because I saw it recommended somewhere. It's great :cool:
Hint: Nobody spoil Person of Interest for me :mad:
Of all sites, I found the Vanity Fair reviews of the episodes to be the best. The author combs through various theories and then distills them with her own thoughts into very interesting and accurate results. I'll toss a link for those who are interested in reading them. An orderly reading might be thoroughly interesting. I started with the column in episode... 6 or so?
http://www.vanityfair.com/contributor/joanna-robinson
Any predictions about where the show goes from here?
I'm guessing the robots divide into at least two groups: One side who want to exact revenge on humanity and the other who want to learn to coexist.
Also, with Ford dead I'm disappointed we won't be seeing Hopkins much, if at all, in the succeeding seasons. His acting chops really, really, really did a lot to sell the show to me.
there's a theory he's still alive as either man or machine because his molding device was making something when theresa died, and he's apparently cast for season 2. I don't think I buy it, though. ford was great, but pushing him aside for the robotgeddon makes sense
Quote from: FunkMonk on December 07, 2016, 11:11:15 PM
Any predictions about where the show goes from here?
I'm guessing the robots divide into at least two groups: One side who want to exact revenge on humanity and the other who want to learn to coexist.
Also, with Ford dead I'm disappointed we won't be seeing Hopkins much, if at all, in the succeeding seasons. His acting chops really, really, really did a lot to sell the show to me.
My only prediction is that at some point the bots wont be able to restart themselves and teddy will kill-kill Dolores/wyatt.
Quote from: FunkMonk on December 07, 2016, 11:11:15 PM
Any predictions about where the show goes from here?
I'm guessing the robots divide into at least two groups: One side who want to exact revenge on humanity and the other who want to learn to coexist.
Also, with Ford dead I'm disappointed we won't be seeing Hopkins much, if at all, in the succeeding seasons. His acting chops really, really, really did a lot to sell the show to me.
My prediction is that the Corporation cracks down hard to regain control, simplifies all the story lines and puts the simplistic story line guy in charge. This will have the added benefit to HBO of attracting more of an audience with more sex and violence. William will be viewed by the corp as a hero for surviving the uprising but he will really be carrying on the work of Arnold and Ford, now that he has discovered the maze.
imo, MIB (ed harris) either becomes a perma villain or he's semi-villain until he gets a redemption arc
Quote from: LaCroix on December 08, 2016, 10:54:31 AM
imo, MIB (ed harris) either becomes a perma villain or he's semi-villain until he gets a redemption arc
I thought he reached the moment of redemption at the end of the last episode. He was never really a villain - it just seemed that way because we didnt know his backstory. What he wanted all along was for the hosts to be more real.
he wants a game with real world consequences, where people can die. he's obsessed with westworld, but he's also bored with it because he can do anything and nobody can really fight back. he doesn't exactly have the same interests as arnold or ford.
The boyish, deliriously happy smile on his face was a very nice touch by Ed Harris.
I suspect that there will be Samurai involved.
Quote from: LaCroix on December 08, 2016, 11:01:55 AM
he wants a game with real world consequences, where people can die. he's obsessed with westworld, but he's also bored with it because he can do anything and nobody can really fight back. he doesn't exactly have the same interests as arnold or ford.
Yes. He only wants the hosts to be "more real" for his own self-interest.
Quote from: Josephus on December 08, 2016, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on December 08, 2016, 11:01:55 AM
he wants a game with real world consequences, where people can die. he's obsessed with westworld, but he's also bored with it because he can do anything and nobody can really fight back. he doesn't exactly have the same interests as arnold or ford.
Yes. He only wants the hosts to be "more real" for his own self-interest.
Perhaps. You might be right. But his pure joy at seeing the uprising starting combined with the devastation the younger William felt when he realized Delores had started on another loop makes me think there is more to it.
ahh, that's what you meant earlier by redemption... I was wondering what you meant by that. his pure joy was because he got shot--finally, he actually got really injured in this world. remember the last conversation he had of the episode with ford? he had again expressed dissatisfaction with how there are no high stakes in westworld
Well. Wow.
I'm a week late but avoided spoilers and finally saw the last episode.
Interesting piece of writing that they started us off with a pretty even view of things from the human/host POV, with a definite skew towards the humans (leading us to believe Teddy was a human at first. Plus Bernard). And now they've gone and left us with all but one of the main characters as hosts (or all? I have a feeling William won't be dead...).
Big shame the madam didn't take the train out. I'd be interested to see the world. I imagine its a super post-scarcity place where the only work is in entertainment. Hopefully they've conquered space. But of course showing this high tech world would be a budget nightmare and from the film making POV a bit of an immersion breaker for viewers who can see Westworld as a Jurassic Parkesque place of one off high tech amidst the world as we know it.
Awesome F.U from Ned Stark/Hopkins. The whole thing that the hosts aren't quite as advanced as we thought and the madam has a script running, questions over quite how aware Dolores is....
Samurai World? Shogun World? Curious to see.
I'm envisioning Westworld as the centre piece and other worlds being on a considerably smaller scale, add-on attractions, but who knows.
I'm kind of dissapointed I made the mistake of reading a theory at about episode 5 which revealed the William/black hat and Bernard/Arnold thing. Would have been nice to realise myself. I think I would have done eventually. But who knows. If didn't would be interesting to see where in the reveal dialogue I would realise.
So I am watching again with the wife, and as expected, the second time around I am picking out all kinds of cool foreshadowing.
The last several minutes of Episode 3 and the first several minutes of Episode 4 are ever so much more interesting the second time around! I recommend going and re-watching just those "interviews". You see so much more what is actually happening to Dolores....
Quote from: Berkut on January 24, 2017, 11:51:33 AM
So I am watching again with the wife, and as expected, the second time around I am picking out all kinds of cool foreshadowing.
The last several minutes of Episode 3 and the first several minutes of Episode 4 are ever so much more interesting the second time around! I recommend going and re-watching just those "interviews". You see so much more what is actually happening to Dolores....
Yeah, I have to do that eventually. I really want to see if everything makes sense on a second viewing, once you know everything.
Even on a second viewing, I cannot figure out how William/the Man In Black managed to get the blood from Lawrence into Teddy... :P
Although the second time around, it does seem pretty obvious there are two timelines going.
That was not at all clear to me the first time though...
I spoilt it for myself reading a theory that this was happening. As yeah. Can't say it came to mind for me.
When I watch a show like that, I consciously try NOT to think about it beyond what they want me to know.
I *like* being surprised!
But I also feel like there is this implicit agreement between me and the story - I won't try to figure you out ahead of time, but you better give me a good reveal that actually works.
Which is why I stopped watching Lost once it became clear the people writing the show had no more idea how to explain what was happening than I did. And why Battlestar Galactica's writers should be in prison on war crimes charges.
Quote from: Berkut on January 24, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
When I watch a show like that, I consciously try NOT to think about it beyond what they want me to know.
I *like* being surprised!
But I also feel like there is this implicit agreement between me and the story - I won't try to figure you out ahead of time, but you better give me a good reveal that actually works.
Which is why I stopped watching Lost once it became clear the people writing the show had no more idea how to explain what was happening than I did. And why Battlestar Galactica's writers should be in prison on war crimes charges.
:lol:
I waited until the last episode of Westworld was on HBO Spain and binged it, in order to avoid that. When you work as a screenwriter it is pretty hard not to try to think ahead of the show/film you're watching.
Quote from: Berkut on January 24, 2017, 01:54:09 PM
When I watch a show like that, I consciously try NOT to think about it beyond what they want me to know.
I *like* being surprised!
But I also feel like there is this implicit agreement between me and the story - I won't try to figure you out ahead of time, but you better give me a good reveal that actually works.
Which is why I stopped watching Lost once it became clear the people writing the show had no more idea how to explain what was happening than I did. And why Battlestar Galactica's writers should be in prison on war crimes charges.
Totally agree. I always hate it when people say "I know what's gonna happen..." and I'm like "Why? I never think ahead."
Loved the last episode of Season 1.
Couldn't make it through the first episode of Season 2. Too random, too deus-ex-machina-ey, too determined to undermine everything they were trying to do in Season 1. Dolores goes from being the heroine to being a psychopathic killer. Hosts torture and murder guests for no fucking reason other than maybe just to show the audience how badass they are. Bernard goes from being a secret mastermind of the project to a babbling idiot. Guys armed with six-shooters mow down trained troops armed with submachine guns (and then immediately know how to accurately use the submachine guns they just captured). Only the Man in Black fails to disappoint, and he isn't on screen long enough.
Unless I hear some great reviews of later episodes, I think I'm done.
I watched the first season last summer when I got HBO. I liked it, but didn't see the point to a second season. The story seemed finished, and the point made. The story of what happens after the robots revolt doesn't seem as mysterious or interesting as the mysterious events that cause it to happen. Haven't watched the first episode yet, and maybe I'm wrong. I didn't expect the show to be as good as it was when saw it.
I do remember watching it and thinking "this is probably the best video game movie I've ever seen. And it's not directly about video games". I was curious if that was intentional and did find that the makers were inspired by games like Skyrim.
Quote from: grumbler on April 30, 2018, 11:24:04 AM
Loved the last episode of Season 1.
Couldn't make it through the first episode of Season 2. Too random, too deus-ex-machina-ey, too determined to undermine everything they were trying to do in Season 1. Dolores goes from being the heroine to being a psychopathic killer. Hosts torture and murder guests for no fucking reason other than maybe just to show the audience how badass they are. Bernard goes from being a secret mastermind of the project to a babbling idiot. Guys armed with six-shooters mow down trained troops armed with submachine guns (and then immediately know how to accurately use the submachine guns they just captured). Only the Man in Black fails to disappoint, and he isn't on screen long enough.
Unless I hear some great reviews of later episodes, I think I'm done.
It was rather bizarre.
I don't know what the hell is going on and they're not showing any tits.
Quote from: grumbler on April 30, 2018, 11:24:04 AM
Loved the last episode of Season 1.
Couldn't make it through the first episode of Season 2. Too random, too deus-ex-machina-ey, too determined to undermine everything they were trying to do in Season 1. Dolores goes from being the heroine to being a psychopathic killer. Hosts torture and murder guests for no fucking reason other than maybe just to show the audience how badass they are. Bernard goes from being a secret mastermind of the project to a babbling idiot. Guys armed with six-shooters mow down trained troops armed with submachine guns (and then immediately know how to accurately use the submachine guns they just captured). Only the Man in Black fails to disappoint, and he isn't on screen long enough.
Unless I hear some great reviews of later episodes, I think I'm done.
I think they over did things, moved too fast. I do like how the hosts are now trying to take charge and assert themselves, but Bernard's story is hard to follow for me. We learned last season that he also was a construct similar to the hosts and I forget who else knows it, but he does know it. I guess trying to act like his normal self. But He's in two places, has two iterations, so waiting to see how that pans out when it's known.
I like Dolores's character but I agree, she's become a cold blooded killer or something. I could be forgetting some of what caused such radical changes. Thandie Newton's character was one of the first hosts to figure things out, take some initiative and get help making changes so she would be independent. Did she also make changes so other characters like Dolores became aware and independent?
I'll still watch, love the show. See how it all goes over the next few episodes/season. They have a winning show as long as they don't get too carried away.
Thandie Newton's character is another one that can use modern submachine guns and their recoil without any trouble whatsover, right from the start. Deus ex machina. But at least her story has some logic to it; we understand her actions and her motives.
I saw the second episode of season 2 Westworld and it's making more sense to me. I think with the hiatus between seasons I forgot some, so wasn't so much in tune with what was going on. I really like the characters in it, lots of plot twists going on.
Agreed though that the hosts being able to do so much is a bit over the top. I'm wondering if Thandie's character was able to add some of that knowledge in while she have the techs manipulate the host templates.
One of the issues I have with the main premise of this show (and no, it's not sentient robots), is that no one recognizes Arnold as Bernard.
I know, I know, Bernard came later. The writers went through great pains to explain that away (Ford wiped away the records of Arnold, etc.).
But..Seriously? In the information age? One must assume Westworld is the biggest thing ever when it opened. Newspaper (or whatever counts for newspapers) articles, magazines, documentaries, hell Wikipedia, articles must exist showing Arnold--one of the main driving forces.
It's like 30 years from now everyone forgetting who Zucherberg was. (I can't even think of his first name right now...so maybe.)
Arnold died before the park opened. Pictures of him show someone else (or else they show the real Arnold and Bernard is made in the mental, not physical, image of Arnold).
The role of Arnold and Ford aren't like the role or Zuckerberg or Gates. Their role is more like the guys who invented Zork.
Quote from: grumbler on May 03, 2018, 08:55:05 AM
Arnold died before the park opened. Pictures of him show someone else (or else they show the real Arnold and Bernard is made in the mental, not physical, image of Arnold).
The role of Arnold and Ford aren't like the role or Zuckerberg or Gates. Their role is more like the guys who invented Zork.
i disagree. A theme park that allows guests to throw themselves into a VR world? this is bigger than Disneyland. There would have been a million articles written about it when the park opened.
Quote from: Josephus on May 03, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
i disagree. A theme park that allows guests to throw themselves into a VR world? this is bigger than Disneyland. There would have been a million articles written about it when the park opened.
How many people know the names of the designers of Disneyland?
Quote from: grumbler on May 03, 2018, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 03, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
i disagree. A theme park that allows guests to throw themselves into a VR world? this is bigger than Disneyland. There would have been a million articles written about it when the park opened.
How many people know the names of the designers of Disneyland?
Walt.
I'm really not sure about the way the show is going.
All the timelines and the lack of a typical western part.
Would have been nice if they'd explored the other worlds a bit before skipping ahead to this.
I am curious though about where Westworld is. I'd always assumed via the arriving train and of course the western setting that it was in some rural part of the western US.
But those Chinese soldiers...it's a huge island in the pacific? Huh?
QuoteArnold died before the park opened. Pictures of him show someone else (or else they show the real Arnold and Bernard is made in the mental, not physical, image of Arnold).
The role of Arnold and Ford aren't like the role or Zuckerberg or Gates. Their role is more like the guys who invented Zork.
A worthy explanation out on the streets.
But this is the company that makes Zork.
You'd think pictures of the founders would be quite widespread in the offices and featured prominently in the employee handbook everyone is issued.
Quote from: Josephus on May 03, 2018, 12:49:52 PM
Walt.
Walt Disney was the CEO and Chairman of Disney and Disney studios. Ford is just the guy in charge of the park. He's not the CEO of the company (in fact, he deals with people sent by the CEO and board). Walt didn't design or run Disneyworld, he paid people to do that. The Fords of Disney are pretty much unknown to us.
Quote from: Tyr on May 03, 2018, 12:57:14 PM
A worthy explanation out on the streets.
But this is the company that makes Zork.
You'd think pictures of the founders would be quite widespread in the offices and featured prominently in the employee handbook everyone is issued.
Ford and Weber aren't the founders of the company. They are the designers of the park.
And, again, we don't know that Bernard actually looks like Arnold Weber did. The one picture we have of Arnold Weber says he doesn't. And, remember, Arnold died 34 years before the "present." No one is still around who remembers him except Delores, and her memory has been altered.
The second episode clarifies or slightly contradicts certain aspects of your arguments, grumbler. Just giving you a head's up.
Quote from: grumbler on May 03, 2018, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 03, 2018, 12:49:52 PM
Walt.
Walt Disney was the CEO and Chairman of Disney and Disney studios. Ford is just the guy in charge of the park. He's not the CEO of the company (in fact, he deals with people sent by the CEO and board). Walt didn't design or run Disneyworld, he paid people to do that. The Fords of Disney are pretty much unknown to us.
Hugely underestimating Ford and Bernard's role in the park.
Quote from: Josephus on May 03, 2018, 02:12:54 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 03, 2018, 01:23:41 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 03, 2018, 12:49:52 PM
Walt.
Walt Disney was the CEO and Chairman of Disney and Disney studios. Ford is just the guy in charge of the park. He's not the CEO of the company (in fact, he deals with people sent by the CEO and board). Walt didn't design or run Disneyworld, he paid people to do that. The Fords of Disney are pretty much unknown to us.
Hugely underestimating Ford and Bernard's role in the park.
Ford and Bernard were the founders of a company that got bought out (by Delos, the company William and Logan worked for) long ago. Everybody there has worked for Delos for years.
I think that you are hugely overestimating Disney's role in Disneyworld.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on May 03, 2018, 01:59:59 PM
The second episode clarifies or slightly contradicts certain aspects of your arguments, grumbler. Just giving you a head's up.
We're just having fun here. If I'm totally wrong, that's cool.
Quote from: grumbler on May 03, 2018, 08:44:03 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on May 03, 2018, 01:59:59 PM
The second episode clarifies or slightly contradicts certain aspects of your arguments, grumbler. Just giving you a head's up.
We're just having fun here. If I'm totally wrong, that's cool.
It was an attempt to have your keep going with the series and watch episode 2. ;)
A pair of theories:
1) William's daughter is the "human" from the lab that was created. If you listen to how William's wife died, he says that she "took the wrong pills" and presumably that would cause an overdose. An overdose which his daughter said was actually a suicide. However, when he is thinking of his past and thinking of his daughter, as per her being mentioned by Lawrence, we flashback to William walking in on a bathtub with what appears to be a suicide, this time by what would appear to be slashing of one's wrists. A different method entirely compared to a pill overdose.
2) The Ghost Nation are put in as a fail-safe to evacuate human guests and eliminate hosts who wander into their territory and are thereby deviating from their paths. This is why William's "daughter" has to escape, as she is not a full human and therefore would have been killed by the Ghost Nation.
Interesting theories Benedict, and could very well be right or close to correct. I was wondering why the Indians were only killing hosts and not guests/humans. I'm waiting to see what Dolores, Maeve and their crews wind up doing, what kind of place they make for themselves either in the part or in the real world. Or even if they survive. Meanwhile I still don't fully understand what the "man in black" is up to, but he's damned interesting.
I wonder why anyone would come up with Westworld in the first place.
"I built androids so realistic that they can pass for real human beings"
"Great! We can build an enormous theme park where the ultra-rich can shoot and rape them!"
"Wait, what?"
"And we will have hundreds of miles of underground tunnels, and thousands of real human beings working there"
"Wouldn't it be cheaper to just have android labor?"
"And we will make the androids dress up as Cowboys, and Samurai, and Hindus! Also, robot tigers!"
"um, okay."
"Why? What were you planning?"
"I have no idea"
"Well, since you didn't have a plan we should go with my cowboy/rape idea."
"I guess that stands to reason"
Another episode in and this season seems to be in serious trouble. The two primary diverging storylines seem to be splitting too far to keep in one narrative effort of a show. A lot of silliness has been going on and the number of likable characters is swiftly heading for zero. :(
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on May 20, 2018, 11:59:56 PM
Another episode in and this season seems to be in serious trouble. The two primary diverging storylines seem to be splitting too far to keep in one narrative effort of a show. A lot of silliness has been going on and the number of likable characters is swiftly heading for zero. :(
I think this season has been a mess.
:huh: I think this season has been getting better and better with each episode! ShogunWorld is amazing. The story is clearly leading towards a confrontation between Maeve and Dolores (the latter being the villain) and I am excited to follow William's arc as well.
Quote from: Solmyr on May 21, 2018, 05:01:23 PM
:huh: I think this season has been getting better and better with each episode! ShogunWorld is amazing. The story is clearly leading towards a confrontation between Maeve and Dolores (the latter being the villain) and I am excited to follow William's arc as well.
I tend to agree. It has been a bit confusing but I still like where the story lines seem to be going. They're heading towards confrontation, hosts with each other and ultimately I assume without the real world.
Quote from: Solmyr on May 21, 2018, 05:01:23 PM
:huh: I think this season has been getting better and better with each episode! ShogunWorld is amazing. The story is clearly leading towards a confrontation between Maeve and Dolores (the latter being the villain) and I am excited to follow William's arc as well.
Dolores has a lot of ground to cover in that case. She's still hanging around the beginning locations of the Westworld environment and Maeve is about to head out of Shogunworld.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on May 21, 2018, 06:01:04 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 21, 2018, 05:01:23 PM
:huh: I think this season has been getting better and better with each episode! ShogunWorld is amazing. The story is clearly leading towards a confrontation between Maeve and Dolores (the latter being the villain) and I am excited to follow William's arc as well.
Dolores has a lot of ground to cover in that case. She's still hanging around the beginning locations of the Westworld environment and Maeve is about to head out of Shogunworld.
The show still has plenty of seasons. According to the actors, season 1 was just the prologue to the story.
Yeah, I found the Shogun arc pretty uninteresting.
Why do we think Maeve and Dolores are going to fight it out?
Maeve mostly wants the bots to be free, able to choose their own path and potentially coexist with humans. Dolores is all about remaking the bots in her own image, denying them freedom of choice. They basically have opposing ideologies regarding the future of their kind.
Quote from: Solmyr on May 22, 2018, 01:34:21 AM
The show still has plenty of seasons. According to the actors, season 1 was just the prologue to the story.
That's actually a little disappointing. I thought the first season was self contained and didn't really need a 2nd season. I've been watching to see where they are going with this, but I'm kinda losing interest.
Quote from: Razgovory on May 22, 2018, 10:26:58 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 22, 2018, 01:34:21 AM
The show still has plenty of seasons. According to the actors, season 1 was just the prologue to the story.
That's actually a little disappointing. I thought the first season was self contained and didn't really need a 2nd season. I've been watching to see where they are going with this, but I'm kinda losing interest.
That's my take on it. Season 1 had a pretty clear storyline despite all the twists and plot wizardry, and was pretty self-contained. But now the show really seems pretty convoluted and without a clear idea of where it's going. They seem to be flinging mud at the wall with loads of ideas, plot seeds, and pretentious claptrap, and see what sticks. Maybe they have a grander plan, maybe it will make all sense in the end, but I'm growing more skeptical after each episode.
In season 6 it will finally be revealed that every single character is a bot. At that point the three people still watching will have gone insane wondering if they are humans dreaming of being butterflies or butterflies dreaming of being human.
It's all very confusing, where's Yul Brenner?
Season One had, as Faulkner noted, "the human heart in conflict with itself." Season Two seems seriously lacking in that. Just a bunch of fanatics and some confused dudes.
If there is a Season 3, I'm hoping they discover SexWorld
No discussion on that last episode. Yeah, it sucked.
The dialogue writing is just terrible, especially for Dolores.
This show thinks it's way more clever than it is.
The red shirts from Star Trek get together with Star Wars stormtroopers to laugh at the ineptitude, terrible aim, constant dying, and general uselessness of Delos security forces.
I am really half arsed in my watching of s2. S1 it isn't..
I do wonder just where this theme park is. Seems with s2 to be an island somewhere but how is it so huge. Just how huge is it?
And why is west world the central piece?
Quote from: Tyr on June 05, 2018, 01:25:54 AM
I am really half arsed in my watching of s2. S1 it isn't..
I do wonder just where this theme park is. Seems with s2 to be an island somewhere but how is it so huge. Just how huge is it?
And why is west world the central piece?
Has some intereting biomes doesn't it. North American scrub land and mesas, Indian jungles, mountainous Japanese forests...
Well, Episode 8 was fucking awesome.
Quote from: Solmyr on June 11, 2018, 09:22:29 AM
Well, Episode 8 was fucking awesome.
Indeed. I don't know if it redeemed the season, but... wow. Definitely one of the best episodes of almost any show I've seen in a long, long time.
I have really enjoyed this season. Not sure why people are down on it.
Liked this episode a lot, it helped that it had relatable and genuine emotion, something that I've missed dearly for the most part of this season. Season 1 worked so well because all the sci-fi mumbo jumbo was brilliantly juxtaposed with great personal stories - from man and robot alike. This episode brought that back.
It was a very good stand alone episode.
The thing is, though, I find that there's not much logic as to how the park works.
I assumed, based on what we saw in Season One in the saloon, that the Hosts pretty much get rebooted every morning and restart their narrative every day. (or if not every day, every game--I always pictured it as being a weekly cycle with fresh guests arriving each week).
But the way the Apache's story played out, it's as though they had no narrative and just lived like normal people do. It's as though in Skryim all the characters continue on with their "lives", even when your character is not in that town.
You would think that the programmers, or the game runners, would have realized that the Apache guy wasn't in the narrative any longer and would have brought him in long before they eventually did.
Not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly, but to me, there's a bit of a logic flaw with how the park runs. Or at least, I'm having a hard time making sense of how the park was supposed to work (even before the shit hit the fan).
As an aside, anyone ever notice there's always a "fly" involved when the hosts start to go rogue? we saw the fly in season one, and in the last episode we saw it at one point on the Apache's fingers.
Quote from: Josephus on June 12, 2018, 09:39:00 AM
It was a very good stand alone episode.
The thing is, though, I find that there's not much logic as to how the park works.
I assumed, based on what we saw in Season One in the saloon, that the Hosts pretty much get rebooted every morning and restart their narrative every day. (or if not every day, every game--I always pictured it as being a weekly cycle with fresh guests arriving each week).
But the way the Apache's story played out, it's as though they had no narrative and just lived like normal people do. It's as though in Skryim all the characters continue on with their "lives", even when your character is not in that town.
You would think that the programmers, or the game runners, would have realized that the Apache guy wasn't in the narrative any longer and would have brought him in long before they eventually did.
Not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly, but to me, there's a bit of a logic flaw with how the park runs. Or at least, I'm having a hard time making sense of how the park was supposed to work (even before the shit hit the fan).
As an aside, anyone ever notice there's always a "fly" involved when the hosts start to go rogue? we saw the fly in season one, and in the last episode we saw it at one point on the Apache's fingers.
I think it has to do with Ford's new narrative/game
I didn't think Hopkins was going to be in the show this year. I'm glad he shows up. Having him appear on rare occasions as sort of a God figure is interesting. I just hope there is some sort of payoff for all of this.
Well, I was wondering where this was going and now I have answer: Off the fucking rails.
what a terrible season
:huh: It's great. It's not made for unthinking audiences who just want mindless entertainment, though. You actually have to figure things out.
Quote from: Solmyr on June 25, 2018, 03:59:19 PM
:huh: It's great. It's not made for unthinking audiences who just want mindless entertainment, though. You actually have to figure things out.
fuck that. I think at work.
Quote from: Josephus on June 25, 2018, 04:09:24 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 25, 2018, 03:59:19 PM
:huh: It's great. It's not made for unthinking audiences who just want mindless entertainment, though. You actually have to figure things out.
fuck that. I think at work.
This show isn't for you then. It's a huge mindfuck.
Quote from: Solmyr on June 25, 2018, 03:59:19 PM
:huh: It's great. It's not made for unthinking audiences who just want mindless entertainment, though. You actually have to figure things out.
I agree with you. I thought it was brilliant. I especially loved the last sequence with Black Hat. Everything was leading to that scene.
1st season made you think and I enjoyed it. Second season not so much. Tried to watch it a few times, but only made it half way.
Quote from: HVC on June 25, 2018, 05:16:24 PM
1st season made you think and I enjoyed it. Second season not so much. Tried to watch it a few times, but only made it half way.
I think the appeal of the first season is people thought they were watching a western with a twist. It really wasn't until the last episode that the time shifts were revealed. In the second season they started with a time shift and time kept shifting and even after the last episode it is not entirely clear what is and what is not real (the main theme of the second season). For the more philosophically inclined this was brilliant, but it was a big risk because a lot of viewers were probably watching for other reasons.
You can really only deceive the audience with a big twist once. After that the audience expects it and the further attempts tend to raise more questions than they answer. I didn't know what the big twist was going to be on the last episode, but I knew there was one, and when it was revealed I found I didn't really care that much. It didn't help that I didn't understand what some of the characters were doing. For instance, I didn't understand why the Delos corporation guys felt a need to program one of the hosts to make the other hosts fight one another. From their perspective all the surviving hosts were jumping off of a cliff. Why not just let them jump? I'm not a stickler for everything making sense perfect sense, some suspension of disbelief is required in these kind of shows, but characters need to have reason why they do things and some of those reasons need to be relatable.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 09:17:14 PM
You can really only deceive the audience with a big twist once. After that the audience expects it and the further attempts tend to raise more questions than they answer. I didn't know what the big twist was going to be on the last episode, but I knew there was one, and when it was revealed I found I didn't really care that much. It didn't help that I didn't understand what some of the characters were doing. For instance, I didn't understand why the Delos corporation guys felt a need to program one of the hosts to make the other hosts fight one another. From their perspective all the surviving hosts were jumping off of a cliff. Why not just let them jump? I'm not a stickler for everything making sense perfect sense, some suspension of disbelief is required in these kind of shows, but characters need to have reason why they do things and some of those reasons need to be relatable.
They were not trying to deceive in the second season. It was very obvious that there were time shifts going on. It was a key part of the season - Bernard's journey, and that became more and more obvious as the season progressed.
QuoteFor instance, I didn't understand why the Delos corporation guys felt a need to program one of the hosts to make the other hosts fight one another. From their perspective all the surviving hosts were jumping off of a cliff.
But they didn't know any of that when they programmed the host to do that. They didn't even know that when she started to get the hosts to kill eachother. They were back further.
Why program one of the hosts to send a message to the other hosts to fight one another at all? What does that accomplish?
The deception of the 2nd season was that at the end when they revealed that Charlotte was really Dolores.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
Why program one of the hosts to send a message to the other hosts to fight one another at all? What does that accomplish?
Killing all the hosts so they stop killing humans, and getting their data secured? It's pretty much what the Delos team is there for in the first place.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
Why program one of the hosts to send a message to the other hosts to fight one another at all? What does that accomplish?
The deception of the 2nd season was that at the end when they revealed that Charlotte was really Dolores.
But when in the timeline did this happen? I know we saw it happen in the last episode.....but when was Charlotte Dolores in real time? It's one of those shows that begs to be watched over again, but I can't be bothered. Fear the walking dead did the same thing this season. Why not tell a story in a linear fashion? My guess is the story isn't that good to begin with. It's like The Sixth Sense, when I first saw it, that twist made you think, "wow great movie", but then the more I thought about it, I realized what a hokey plot that was. I did like the last episode of Westworld, but one good episode, does not a good season make.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
Why program one of the hosts to send a message to the other hosts to fight one another at all? What does that accomplish?
The deception of the 2nd season was that at the end when they revealed that Charlotte was really Dolores.
No, Charlotte was Charlotte for most of the scenes you saw this season. I disagree with Josephus that it was hard to sort out the time shifts. We knew that was happening from the start. It is more challenging to watch than a linear story but we were watching the season through Bernhard's POV and he was always challenged to figure out what was real.
Quote from: Solmyr on June 26, 2018, 03:50:18 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
Why program one of the hosts to send a message to the other hosts to fight one another at all? What does that accomplish?
Killing all the hosts so they stop killing humans, and getting their data secured? It's pretty much what the Delos team is there for in the first place.
I thought they weren't interested in protecting humans. And making the hosts get in fist fights seem like a really round about way of killing them.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 26, 2018, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 26, 2018, 03:50:18 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 25, 2018, 10:37:43 PM
Why program one of the hosts to send a message to the other hosts to fight one another at all? What does that accomplish?
Killing all the hosts so they stop killing humans, and getting their data secured? It's pretty much what the Delos team is there for in the first place.
I thought they weren't interested in protecting humans. And making the hosts get in fist fights seem like a really round about way of killing them.
You are correct, they were not interested in protecting the guests but they were very interested in making their own journey to the Forge as safe as possible and that is why they programmed the host to do what she did.
Should have been a 10 episode mini-series.
The characters' motivations often made no sense. The fact that you use pseudo-philosophical language doesn't make you sound deep, Dolores, just vague and pretentious.
I'd be curious to know the ratings compared to season 1. My guesstimate is that they tanked.
I watched the first episode again yesterday.
Now I'm understanding the timeline a bit better.
First time i saw it, when I saw Bernard in the sand, I thought that was after the big soiree that went bad. But it wasn't. That was AFTER almost all the stuff that happens in season two. In the first episode we get to see all the hosts dead on the beach, those are the ones that jumped off the cliff in the final episode.
Quote from: Josephus on June 27, 2018, 11:28:42 AM
I watched the first episode again yesterday.
Now I'm understanding the timeline a bit better.
First time i saw it, when I saw Bernard in the sand, I thought that was after the big soiree that went bad. But it wasn't. That was AFTER almost all the stuff that happens in season two. In the first episode we get to see all the hosts dead on the beach, those are the ones that jumped off the cliff in the final episode.
Yep, there is the initial disconnect, but once you realize it is all out of order because of the way Bernard is perceiving events, it clicks into place - and then the ending becomes that much more meaningful.
I don't know, watching this season felt like trying to solve a huge puzzle box and then finding out that there's nothing inside.