Former CIA and NSA employee source of intelligence leaks

Started by merithyn, June 09, 2013, 08:17:17 PM

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Phillip V

#435
June 17, 2013, 09:49:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:38:50 PM
I've read several Libertarian tracts on the evils of Abraham Lincoln.  I've even read theories supporting "voluntary slavery".

The Minsky Moment

#436
June 17, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:31:09 PM
Libertarians are only really concerned from coercion and violence from the state.

Three words:  Fugitive Slave Law.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

garbon

#437
June 17, 2013, 09:52:16 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:31:09 PM
Libertarians are only really concerned from coercion and violence from the state.

Three words:  Fugitive Slave Law.

:yes:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Razgovory

#438
June 17, 2013, 09:55:52 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2013, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:38:50 PM
I've even read theories supporting "voluntary slavery".

Yeah but that'd still be another thing. That's at least positing some sort of indentured servitude that one can theoretically enter into out of one's free will. Still kinda bonkers but not the same as saying that the ante-bellum south is a libertarian's paradise. After all, there was coercion by the gov't that kept slaves as slaves.

Did I say paradise?  No.  I said the opposite, it was the Libertarian dystopia.  Just like the Stalinist Soviet Union was the communist's dystopia.  The coercion to keep people slaves was typically local, and often private.  When there were major slave rebellions they were often stopped by local militia, private citizens carrying personal firearms.  Very second amendment.  When John Brown tried to seize the federal arsenal at Harper's Ferry it was the local militia that contained him.  The evil federal leviathan didn't arrive till the situation had pretty much settled.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#439
June 17, 2013, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2013, 09:50:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:31:09 PM
Libertarians are only really concerned from coercion and violence from the state.

Three words:  Fugitive Slave Law.

Laws protecting property, that were enacted long after slavery had been established.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

#440
June 17, 2013, 09:57:21 PM
Two more words and I could add the gag rule.

When it came to the defense of slavery, the antebellum South was willing to consider the most draconian of state coercion.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

#441
June 17, 2013, 10:00:30 PM
Yeah, but it ain't the evil Feds.  State's Right and all.  And most the coercion came in the form of lynch mobs not peace officers or soldiers.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

#442
June 17, 2013, 10:04:35 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 10:00:30 PM
Yeah, but it ain't the evil Feds.  State's Right and all.  And most the coercion came in the form of lynch mobs not peace officers or soldiers.

The gag rule was a federal rule, enforced by federal post officers.
The Fugitive Slave Act was the most anti-federalist law ever conceived: it empowered federal marshals and deputies to seize persons lawfully abiding in a state in violation of that's state's laws and carry them off.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

#443
June 17, 2013, 10:05:38 PM
And they didn't found slavery and only existed for a fairly short period.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

#444
June 17, 2013, 10:08:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
  Libertarian dystopia is the ante-bellum US south.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

#445
June 17, 2013, 10:11:06 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2013, 10:08:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
  Libertarian dystopia is the ante-bellum US south.

Which I believe streches from 1781-1861.  That's a long time.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

#446
June 17, 2013, 10:11:42 PM
OK guys, enough of this.  Get back to NSA leakage.

Razgovory

#447
June 17, 2013, 10:13:05 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 17, 2013, 10:11:42 PM
OK guys, enough of this.  Get back to NSA leakage.

Not much to tell.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

#448
June 17, 2013, 10:56:11 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 10:11:06 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2013, 10:08:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 17, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
  Libertarian dystopia is the ante-bellum US south.

Which I believe streches from 1781-1861.  That's a long time.

First federal fugitive slave act was passed 1793.  Excluding the articles of confederation period that's pretty much the whole thing.

The gag rule dates from the 1830s so only 30 years.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Razgovory

#449
June 17, 2013, 11:48:39 PM
Why would the gag rule bother libertarians?  It's restricts the powers of the federal government?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017
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