New Turkish law clamps down on alcohol

[CountDeMoney]

What's the argument for banning retail sales at times when you can still purchase drinks at restaurants/pubs/bars/etc?

Restaurant lobby has more muscle in local government.

[The Larch]

Things have changed a lot in the last 5 years or so.

Yeah it was back in 2000, we were still using Pesetas.  Unfortunate that the laws have moved in that direction in the past 5 years.

Why unfortunate?

There seems to be room for a reasonable and moderate laws implementing some restrictions on the sale and consumption of alcohol...

What's the argument for banning retail sales at times when you can still purchase drinks at restaurants/pubs/bars/etc?

Over here it's mostly about preventing people (particulary young people) from drinking in the streets.

[garbon]

Over here it's mostly about preventing people (particulary young people) from drinking in the streets.

That failed mightily then. When I was in Barcelona in '07 - I recall that we bought some cava earlier than sat along docks (and then on steps of contemporary art museum). Dock area was mostly deserted but when we went near the art museum, all the kids were out there drinking/skate boarding - actually I recall some older tourists too.

But then again that does fall outside the 5 year period you highlighted.

[The Larch]

Over here it's mostly about preventing people (particulary young people) from drinking in the streets.

That failed mightily then. When I was in Barcelona in '07 - I recall that we bought some cava earlier than sat along docks (and then on steps of contemporary art museum). Dock area was mostly deserted but when we went near the art museum, all the kids were out there drinking/skate boarding - actually I recall some older tourists too.

But then again that does fall outside the 5 year period you highlighted.

These kind of regulations tend to be local, it changes from place to place, so maybe in BCN it's different. And I never said it fully worked. In bigger cities it's not difficult to find places that ignore alcohol sales bans (tipically the stores run by Chinese or Pakistani inmigrants).

[Barrister]

What's the argument for banning retail sales at times when you can still purchase drinks at restaurants/pubs/bars/etc?

Restaurant lobby has more muscle in local government.

Anecdote - the Yukon has government owned and run liquor stores.  They're the only place you can buy retail liquor.  and to be very fair, they had an excellent selection and very reasonable prices.  They also closed at 6pm.

HOWEVER... you could always buy "off sale" booze from restaurants and bars.  Prices were 30% higher than the government store, and selection extremely limited.

Why you ask would there be such an arrangement?  Because local bar owners made up one of the biggest constituencies of the ruling Yukon Party.

[Ed Anger]

Welcome to Austin, shithole of Texas.

Maybe but what does that have to do with my experiences in Spain?

Ed's just jealous because Austin has more culture than Columbus, except during Pride Week.

I'll drop a note to Schmidt's Sausage Haus management not to serve you.

[Syt]

What's the argument for banning retail sales at times when you can still purchase drinks at restaurants/pubs/bars/etc?

Restaurant lobby has more muscle in local government.

Anecdote - the Yukon has government owned and run liquor stores.  They're the only place you can buy retail liquor.  and to be very fair, they had an excellent selection and very reasonable prices.  They also closed at 6pm.

HOWEVER... you could always buy "off sale" booze from restaurants and bars.  Prices were 30% higher than the government store, and selection extremely limited.

Why you ask would there be such an arrangement?  Because local bar owners made up one of the biggest constituencies of the ruling Yukon Party.

Ontario has something similar. One of my colleagues took a picture for her husband of a beer vending machine in one of the pubs. 

[Zanza]

The German federal state I live in bans alcohol sales in supermarkets etc. after 10pm. It's allowed 24/7 in bars though.

Turkish Airlines has also banned alcohol on their flights to other Muslim countries.

[CountDeMoney]

I'll drop a note to Schmidt's Sausage Haus management not to serve you.

They'll never notice me in the crowd when the house band, "Albrecht Und Der Akkordeons" is playing Ommpah Night.

[Syt]

Vienna doesn't have limitations n the sale of alcohol, time-wise. I know the Mayor of the First District (Inner City) wanted to ban public drinking (except if you're sitting outside in a café or restaurant), because she detests backpacking tourists sitting around like hobos, drinking wine/beer from the bottle. It didn't go anywhere, though. During the warm months, it's pretty popular for kids to hang out in some locations (Danube Canal, where there's also many bars, Museumsquartier etc.) and have wine or beer.

Also, there's online shops that specialize in late night deliveries in case your party runs dry. The student dorm I lived at during my first 18 months in Vienna had one floor specialized in 24/7 beer service. They would have at least one person ready in the kitchen at any time of night or day to sell cold bottled beer to thirsty students. Another dorm had a beer vending machine in its hallway.

Graz, however, has banned public drinking in the inner city (surprised that went through, considering that a substantial amount of people in Graz are university students).

[Siege]

That's why I always maintain a large stock of alcohol.
I ain't runing out in the middle of a blast.

[Duque de Bragança]

Finding a store/shop open after midnight is the real problem in Frankfurt. Booze or no booze Bars and clubs are open of course.
There might be some 24/7 store at the airport though.

[Syt]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/31/turkey-alcohol-laws-istanbul-nightlife

Turkey alcohol laws could pull the plug on Istanbul nightlife

Retailers in the city's Beyoglu district are worried about the likely impact on business and loss of traditions



In the Siirci bar in a backstreet of Istanbul's bustling Beyoglu district, a few patrons are enjoying a cold beer. Flyers for LBGT rights and environmentalist demonstrations are scattered on a small table with feminist magazines stacked alongside.

"Places like ours do not fit in the AKP's vision of Istanbul," says the bar's manager, Haydar Tas, of the party that has governed Turkey for the last decade. "And restrictions on alcohol consumption will make things harder for us."

In a surprise move last week, the Turkish parliament rushed through strict legislation that, once approved by the president, Abdullah Gul, will curb alcohol sales and drinking in Turkey.

The planned regulations would prohibit retail sales between 10pm and 6am, ban all alcohol advertising and promotion, and stop new shops and bars from opening within 100m of schools and mosques.

As is already the case with smoking, the depiction of alcohol consumption in films and on television would be blurred.

Retailers are worried about the likely impact on business.

"I make most sales after 10pm, and I sell mostly beer and wine," says shopowner Rafi Siropyan, 35. "Our family has been running this shop for 40 years, but I am afraid that I might have to look into alternatives."

Turkey is no stranger to teetotal campaigns or clampdowns on booze. In the Ottoman era, some sultans imposed similar restrictions. But alcohol consumption has always been part of food culture in Turkey, a country whose population is 99% Muslim.

Members of the opposition Republican People's party (CHP) compared AKP MPs who drafted the bill to the Ottoman sultan Murat VI, who was known for his puritanical stance on worldly pleasures such as drinking and smoking. He is said to have patrolled Istanbul's streets incognito in order to root out offenders.

"If Turkey really is a secular state, then the government should not have the right to tell me when and where to drink alcohol," says Seref Acehan, 69, a master butcher and Beyoglu resident. "As long as I don't harm others, drinking is a matter of my own personal freedom."

Not everyone agrees. A government supporter, Veli Koseoglu, 56, thinks that the bill does not go far enough: "If people are unable to buy alcohol after 10pm, they will simply stock up beforehand. What kind of restriction is this supposed to be?"

He lives in Ortakoy, a neighbourhood known for its lively bar scene.

"On weekends, people get drunk in the streets, they swear and start fights. It makes me uncomfortable. In my opinion, drinking should be banned in all public places such as buses or parks."

The government argues that the crackdown is only aimed at improving public health and protecting children. It insists that it does not amount to a ban.

"The bill doesn't ban alcohol consumption, it simply regulates it", AKP MP Nursuna Memecan told the Guardian. "People in Turkey have been scared into seeing religious fundamentalism around every street corner. It is important to protect young people from harmful substances."

Critics point out that such concerns are hardly justified. At only 1.5 litres a year Turkey has the lowest per capita alcohol consumption rate in Europe, and 83% of the population does not touch alcohol at all.

Some fear that the proposed law is a further step towards the Islamisation of the country. Speaking at an AKP meeting this week Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, underlined that religion commanded "what was right".

"They use public health concerns as a thinly veiled excuse to impose their own lifestyle on everyone in Turkey," said one 45-year-old cornershop owner, who asked not to be named for fear of repercussions. "If things continue like this, they will soon pass laws that regulate how people should dress."

Others are worried about mounting authoritarianism in Turkey.

"Our government interferes in everything. They tell us how many children to have, how much salt we should put in our food, what kind of bread to eat and what to drink," Acehan said.

"Many European countries might have similar alcohol restrictions, but they have full democratic rights. They discuss laws before they are passed. I wish we would have this kind of mutual understanding in Turkey."

Tas is convinced that the drink curbs are aimed at appeasing conservative Muslim voters. "With so many more important problems to solve, there really is no need for alcohol restrictions in Turkey. If they are so concerned about freedom of religion, why don't they solve the headscarf issue instead of curtailing other people's choices?"

Sitting in his small bar in Beyoglu, he does not have much hope that things will change for the better.

"The AKP government wants to control what Beyoglu looks like, and who can be here. In the future, there will be no room for alternative places like ours. All leftist opposition groups, associations and cultural spaces will be rooted out, and the only place to get a drink will be expensive luxury hotels and restaurants. It will be the end of Beyoglu as we know it."

[derspiess]

The army needs to step in & block this

[Queequeg]

Just to be clear this doesn't cover bars and restaurants, correct?