2016 elections - because it's never too early

Started by merithyn, May 09, 2013, 07:37:45 AM

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Eddie Teach

Quote from: Razgovory on April 06, 2016, 10:26:50 PM
People are under this weird impression that this an election for elected office.  It is not.  It's part of the party machinery.

Yeah considering the great variety of rules on who can vote and how delegates are awarded from state to state, this ain't exactly democratic. Even the top vote-getter can't claim a clear popular mandate, as caucus states get much lower turnouts due to the greater hassle of voting there(besides the thing about letting independents/other party vote in some states and not others).
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Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
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Martinus

For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

celedhring

It seems an AIDS vs cancer scenario to me. Cruz might actually be more dangerous since the establishment could get behind him, unlike Trump.

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

I think Trump's arrogance and presumption in International Relations could be devastating. Cruz doesn't seem like he will rock the boat much. His foreign policy will probably look like Bush's had 9/11 not happened. And a lot more like Obama's than he would admit.

Course, my theoretical vote is going to the Democratic winner anyway, so...
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

FunkMonk

Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

They're both terrible and I'd never vote for either of them.

Going by pure style, though, The Donald is my favorite. He's turned a boring election cycle into a circus and it's magical.

Thanks for all the memories, Donald.  :cry:
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

FunkMonk

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2016, 10:34:38 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on April 06, 2016, 09:25:17 PM
I don't think they (the GOP) cares about winning states anymore though. They just seem to care about delegates, and making sure Der Trumpenfuhrer doesn't get to 1237. As long as they can deny him the first ballot, he can win all the states he wants.

That seems to be their super duper cheat code strat,  but they may have to blow on the cartridge a few times to make it work, though.

I would really like to see some actual demos on Trump delegates;  unlike Democrat superdelegates--who are often bona fide party leaders and elected officials back home in their respective states--these delegates that are committed to Trump may not have to worry about the blowback back home if they change their tune at the convention after the first couple ballots. 

Trump has no real future in the party, and these delegates--many of whom may very well have future political aspirations at the local, county or state level back home--know that.  So, cast your Trump ballot out of courtesy, and then see what fans out.  But Cruz knows how to game the professional pols, the delegates that will still want to be politically active long after The Donald ascends to the heavens on the golden escalator from whence he came.

But other than anecdotal stuff, I don't really know how many Trump delegates to date are hardcore, longtime conservative party activists, or one-off Teabagger types fittin' to Make America Hate Again.  If there's a shitload of the latter, Cleveland could burn.

My inclination is that a butt load of delegates will bail on him the second he fails on the first ballot. Unless his power of personality can keep the local systems in line, the more he tightens his grip, the more delegates will slip through his fingers.
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

Barrister

Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

Policy differences - in that Cruz actually has them.

Take a look at their official websites:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions
https://www.tedcruz.org/issues/

And yes, the initial pages I linked to look a little bit similar.  But drill down.  Cruz has detailed links behind his policies.  Trump does not.

In interviews Trump can barely even articulate his policies.  He will either obfuscate, or will flip-flop wildly (look at the mess he got into when talking about punishing women for abortion).

I'm not a Ted Cruz fan.  His entire career seems like it's been built around serving Ted Cruz, and not serving the US.  But he is at least qualified and competent as a politician.  Donald Trump is not.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Legbiter

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 06, 2016, 06:40:34 PMMeh, you've got a few states of Trumpistan right around the corner:  New York, New Jersey, Rogue Island, Delaware, Connecticut, and Pennsyltucky--where the latest Quinnipac poll just put him at 48%.  He's going to win these states.

Yep.

Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Zanza

Quote from: Barrister on April 07, 2016, 09:45:24 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

Policy differences - in that Cruz actually has them.

Take a look at their official websites:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions
https://www.tedcruz.org/issues/

And yes, the initial pages I linked to look a little bit similar.  But drill down.  Cruz has detailed links behind his policies.  Trump does not.

In interviews Trump can barely even articulate his policies.  He will either obfuscate, or will flip-flop wildly (look at the mess he got into when talking about punishing women for abortion).

I'm not a Ted Cruz fan.  His entire career seems like it's been built around serving Ted Cruz, and not serving the US.  But he is at least qualified and competent as a politician.  Donald Trump is not.
It doesn't help that some of his policies are crazy.

Berkut

Quote from: Zanza on April 07, 2016, 11:56:22 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 07, 2016, 09:45:24 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

Policy differences - in that Cruz actually has them.

Take a look at their official websites:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions
https://www.tedcruz.org/issues/

And yes, the initial pages I linked to look a little bit similar.  But drill down.  Cruz has detailed links behind his policies.  Trump does not.

In interviews Trump can barely even articulate his policies.  He will either obfuscate, or will flip-flop wildly (look at the mess he got into when talking about punishing women for abortion).

I'm not a Ted Cruz fan.  His entire career seems like it's been built around serving Ted Cruz, and not serving the US.  But he is at least qualified and competent as a politician.  Donald Trump is not.
It doesn't help that some of his policies are crazy.

Indeed. It is a tough choice between no policies and religiously motivated fanaticism driving your policies.
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Barrister

Quote from: Berkut on April 07, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 07, 2016, 11:56:22 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 07, 2016, 09:45:24 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

Policy differences - in that Cruz actually has them.

Take a look at their official websites:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions
https://www.tedcruz.org/issues/

And yes, the initial pages I linked to look a little bit similar.  But drill down.  Cruz has detailed links behind his policies.  Trump does not.

In interviews Trump can barely even articulate his policies.  He will either obfuscate, or will flip-flop wildly (look at the mess he got into when talking about punishing women for abortion).

I'm not a Ted Cruz fan.  His entire career seems like it's been built around serving Ted Cruz, and not serving the US.  But he is at least qualified and competent as a politician.  Donald Trump is not.
It doesn't help that some of his policies are crazy.

Indeed. It is a tough choice between no policies and religiously motivated fanaticism driving your policies.

It seems like an easy choice to me.

People seem to say Cruz is "crazy", but really everything he has done seems coldly calculated.  He knows the GOP voters are pretty religious and conservative, and he designed his candidacy so that he would be the most religious and most conservative candidate around.

Trump though... really seems disconnected from reality.  Even Trump supporter Anne Coulter said that trump was "mental".

I'm firmly in #NeverTrump.  If the choice is between Trump and Cruz, I'm easily supporting Cruz.  If it is between Trump and Clinton or Sanders, then I'm supporting the democrat.  Donald Trump is simply not capable or competent to be President.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Berkut

Quote from: Barrister on April 07, 2016, 01:58:23 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 07, 2016, 01:46:19 PM
Quote from: Zanza on April 07, 2016, 11:56:22 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 07, 2016, 09:45:24 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2016, 05:20:33 AM
For people who say they prefer Cruz to Trump - is this based on policy differences (if so, which?) or a matter of style?

Policy differences - in that Cruz actually has them.

Take a look at their official websites:

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions
https://www.tedcruz.org/issues/

And yes, the initial pages I linked to look a little bit similar.  But drill down.  Cruz has detailed links behind his policies.  Trump does not.

In interviews Trump can barely even articulate his policies.  He will either obfuscate, or will flip-flop wildly (look at the mess he got into when talking about punishing women for abortion).

I'm not a Ted Cruz fan.  His entire career seems like it's been built around serving Ted Cruz, and not serving the US.  But he is at least qualified and competent as a politician.  Donald Trump is not.
It doesn't help that some of his policies are crazy.

Indeed. It is a tough choice between no policies and religiously motivated fanaticism driving your policies.

It seems like an easy choice to me.

People seem to say Cruz is "crazy", but really everything he has done seems coldly calculated.  He knows the GOP voters are pretty religious and conservative, and he designed his candidacy so that he would be the most religious and most conservative candidate around.

His religious fanaticism is not a façade - he is not trying to pretend to be a religious nut, he *IS* a religious nut.

This is not the Shrubbery pretending to be super religious, but really being no more religious than most salad bar American Christians.

Cruz is the real deal. A born again Christian fundie.
Quote

Trump though... really seems disconnected from reality.  Even Trump supporter Anne Coulter said that trump was "mental".

I'm firmly in #NeverTrump.  If the choice is between Trump and Cruz, I'm easily supporting Cruz.

Again, not exactly shocking.

What if the choice is between Cruz and Kasich?

Cruz and Clinton?

Cruz and Sanders?
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Barrister

Quote from: Berkut on April 07, 2016, 02:36:58 PM
His religious fanaticism is not a façade - he is not trying to pretend to be a religious nut, he *IS* a religious nut.

This is not the Shrubbery pretending to be super religious, but really being no more religious than most salad bar American Christians.

Cruz is the real deal. A born again Christian fundie.
Quote

Trump though... really seems disconnected from reality.  Even Trump supporter Anne Coulter said that trump was "mental".

I'm firmly in #NeverTrump.  If the choice is between Trump and Cruz, I'm easily supporting Cruz.

Again, not exactly shocking.

What if the choice is between Cruz and Kasich?

Cruz and Clinton?

Cruz and Sanders?

If Ted Cruz wins the nomination I have no shadow of a doubt he will pivot towards the centre.  Cruz is a smart guy.  He graduated from Princeton undergrad and Harvard Law, where he made law review.  He clerked with Rehnquist.  He worked with the Bush campaign, was Texas Solicitor-General, then made huge waves as an insurgent tea party senator from Texas.

Now he's not going to run as a leftist, but he knows how politics work.  His campaign focus will change if he wins the nomination.

If the choice it between Ted Cruz and Clinton, or Sanders for that matter, I'd be pulling for Cruz.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

merithyn

Quote from: Barrister on April 07, 2016, 02:45:55 PM
If Ted Cruz wins the nomination I have no shadow of a doubt he will pivot towards the centre.  Cruz is a smart guy.  He graduated from Princeton undergrad and Harvard Law, where he made law review.  He clerked with Rehnquist.  He worked with the Bush campaign, was Texas Solicitor-General, then made huge waves as an insurgent tea party senator from Texas.

Now he's not going to run as a leftist, but he knows how politics work.  His campaign focus will change if he wins the nomination.

If the choice it between Ted Cruz and Clinton, or Sanders for that matter, I'd be pulling for Cruz.

But it would be a farce for him to shift to the middle, and we all know it. He's not hidden his type of crazy. (You call it what you will, but that level of fanaticism is crazy in my book.) It would be nearly impossible for him to suddenly shift focus and convince Independents or even Moderates that he's really not going to force his religion down everyone's throats. No, honest.
Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...