2016 elections - because it's never too early

[Capetan Mihali]

  Let's change the URL to languish.il, at this point.

EDIT:  Since it's psychotic, drunk, excited, and disorganized to point out what the world already knows about Israeli brutality and the influence of Israel over American politics.

[The Minsky Moment]

It is odd indeed to discuss American warships and *not* discuss the Liberty "Incident"...

Congress passed the Naval Act in 1794, thereby authorizing the construction of the USS Constitution and the other frigates that would form the nascent US Navy.  But little did the Cogress suspect that 173 years later, the USS Liberty, a distant descendant of those original original ships, would be attacked by  warmongering  ethnic cleansers

[Eddie Teach]

Did something happen recently to trigger this "anti-Zionist" diatribe?

[DGuller]

So DGuller has poor reading comprehension (I'm not knocking him for it), and the Israeli bombing of an American ship is a joke to two other posters?  Got it.

I'm just failing to discern the point you're making.  Sometimes saying things in a less convoluted manner aids the comprehension of others.

1) Israel is a state based on racial-religious supremacy of one people over another.

2) Israel continues to mistreat the Palestinian people (i.e. the Arab population of Israel proper and the occupied territories) to the point where there is no other word to describe it but "apartheid," and even that doesn't go far enough to describe the repeated attacks on Gaza in recent years, in particular.

3) Israel receives millions of dollars of US taxpayer money every year.

Conclusion:  Israel is unworthy of the moral support of the world and most certainly unworthy of our tax dollars.

Counterpoint:  Israel's neighbors and enemies are orders of magnitude more despicable.  Liberals that agitate for absolutism in this case directly aid the murderous, sexist, homophobic, and religiously intolerant cultures, all things which they're usually against when it catches their attention.

[Malthus]

  Let's change the URL to languish.il, at this point.

I'd be happy to debate the rights and wrongs of Israel and the ME at another time, perhaps in another thread, but right now I honestly think you should get some sleep. 

[frunk]

Did something happen recently to trigger this "anti-Zionist" diatribe?

Mihali has gone on a rant about Israel before.  Don't know if there was something that caused this particular outburst.

[The Minsky Moment]

1) Israel is a state based on racial-religious supremacy of one people over another.

2) Israel continues to mistreat the Palestinian people (i.e. the Arab population of Israel proper and the occupied territories) to the point where there is no other word to describe it but "apartheid," and even that doesn't go far enough to describe the repeated attacks on Gaza in recent years, in particular.

3) Israel receives millions of dollars of US taxpayer money every year.

Conclusion:  Israel is unworthy of the moral support of the world and most certainly unworthy of our tax dollars.

It's billions not millions. 

[Capetan Mihali]

]
Umm...

Not sure what immigration from the USSR has to do with "Jews in the arab net", but in any event it wasn't until the collapse of the USSR in the 1990s that there was substantial migration of Russian Jews to Israel.

The 70s were a crucial time for Soviet Jews emigrating to Israel, as a direct result of U.S. pressure.  Obviously, the numbers weren't as gigantic as after an exit visa was no longer required in the 90s, and the impact on North America was accordingly much smaller.

[Capetan Mihali]

It's billions not millions. 

I know.   But I didn't want to searching for some kind of ADL-approved source for you and Malthus to verify it if I said "billions," so I softballed it.  Glad you think it's cute to spend our money bombing an open-air prison every two or three years.

[The Minsky Moment]

I read Shattered Sword recently.  Good book, lots of detail on Midway, but why no mention of the Liberty incident?  What are they trying to hide?

[Valmy]

1) Israel is a state based on racial-religious supremacy of one people over another.

All nation-states are.

2) Israel continues to mistreat the Palestinian people (i.e. the Arab population of Israel proper and the occupied territories) to the point where there is no other word to describe it but "apartheid," and even that doesn't go far enough to describe the repeated attacks on Gaza in recent years, in particular.

Because these are two mortal ethnic enemies who distrust and fear each other.

3) Israel receives millions of dollars of US taxpayer money every year.

Conclusion:  Israel is unworthy of the moral support of the world and most certainly unworthy of our tax dollars.

Probably true. There will be a time when other countries might help end the conflict there but not yet. Everybody is still eager to fight. It is a waste of time right now, we are just a tool to be used.

[Capetan Mihali]

Counterpoint:  Israel's neighbors and enemies are orders of magnitude more despicable.  Liberals that agitate for absolutism in this case directly aid the murderous, sexist, homophobic, and religiously intolerant cultures, all things which they're usually against when it catches their attention.

Counter-counterpoint:  So?  I agree.  They are worse.  Why does pumping billions into Israel, whose explicit policy of ethnically cleansing the West Bank through the construction of settlements defended by the IDF we (the US) supposedly oppose yet have been unable to stop or even slow significantly, change a damn thing?

[Capetan Mihali]

You hate nation-states.  Ergo, you hate Israel.  Get off Languish, anti-semite.

"Mortal enemies" is a useful fiction.  There were Arab massacres of Jews in Palestine before Israel existed; there were Jewish massacres of Arabs -- and many more, with many more casualties, than is generally acknowledged -- throughout 1947-48, not taking into consideration the widespread expropriation of Arab land during that period.  Such things have happened before throughout the globe yet not all peoples are "mortal enemies."

Some tools are more useful than others.  Israel is the proverbial "tail that wags the dog."  We are the tool.

[The Minsky Moment]

  Why does pumping billions into Israel, whose explicit policy of ethnically cleansing the West Bank through the construction of settlements defended by the IDF we (the US) supposedly oppose yet have been unable to stop or even slow significantly, change a damn thing?

Seriously - at this point I think it is a combination of policy inertia plus US domestic politics.   Some of the joint development projects make sense (e.g. missile defense), the rest probably doesn't at this point.

[Capetan Mihali]

  Why does pumping billions into Israel, whose explicit policy of ethnically cleansing the West Bank through the construction of settlements defended by the IDF we (the US) supposedly oppose yet have been unable to stop or even slow significantly, change a damn thing?

Seriously - at this point I think it is a combination of policy inertia plus US domestic politics.   Some of the joint development projects make sense (e.g. missile defense), the rest probably doesn't at this point.

And I say, in all seriousness, it's a horrible state of affairs for a whole lot of people; if our domestic politics are contributing (in billions of USD) to this situation, it's our moral responsibility to fight US support for Israel in 2016.