Volunteering abroad is stupid

[Malthus]

While I appreciate the typical Languish cynicism - none finer  - perhaps what you guys are missing here is that part of the point of such volunteerism isn't simply to offer the (perhaps negligible) physical help of a know-nothing idealistic young Westerner, but to educate said Westerner about the place he or she is being sent, to give them an insight into how other folks live there, and perhaps inspire them to further empathy for the situation these people face?

You don't get any of that from simply cutting a cheque. And while in the short run, earning some cash and cutting a cheque may very well be a better use of these kids' time in terms of efficuency of aid, in the long run, having some actual experience of (and empathy for) these people may be a better investment - as its most crass, it will ensure more cheques in the future.

That's what I tell women. Talking and messaging isn't enough. We need to get physically intimate in order to truly know each other.

Does the "please I need your charity" appeal work well with dating? 

[Phillip V]

While I appreciate the typical Languish cynicism - none finer  - perhaps what you guys are missing here is that part of the point of such volunteerism isn't simply to offer the (perhaps negligible) physical help of a know-nothing idealistic young Westerner, but to educate said Westerner about the place he or she is being sent, to give them an insight into how other folks live there, and perhaps inspire them to further empathy for the situation these people face?

You don't get any of that from simply cutting a cheque. And while in the short run, earning some cash and cutting a cheque may very well be a better use of these kids' time in terms of efficuency of aid, in the long run, having some actual experience of (and empathy for) these people may be a better investment - as its most crass, it will ensure more cheques in the future.

I just figure if you are going to take the time and money to help people abroad you should find people who know the country and how things work there and has a good idea about what is actually needed.  Going over there to gawk at the poors for my own personal enrichment seems a little...erm...wrong somehow.

The point isn't, in large part, the immediate benefit of the kid's labour - though that is nice.

The point is to engage the kid's empathy, so that rather than just "gawking at the poors", they approach their position in a somewhat different light - presumably making an ongoing difference.

If this is the case, an increase in immediate efficiency is of course welcome, but a lack of it isn't fatal.

If there is time and money, traveling is is always nice to "broaden horizons", but immediate interaction is not a prerequisite for empathy. Volunteering abroad for a few months is not a cure for a person raised through early life to be ignorant/narcissistic/coddled. In fact, the trip could worsen them!

Increase of empathy and cultivation of compassion can powerfully be done in a dark cave. Or just a regular childhood with books, responsibilities, and engagement in various communities.

[Malthus]

If there is time and money, traveling is is always nice to "broaden horizons", but immediate interaction is not a prerequisite for empathy. Volunteering abroad for a few months is not a cure for a person raised through early life to be ignorant/narcissistic/coddled. In fact, the trip could worsen them!

Increase of empathy and cultivation of compassion can powerfully be done in a dark cave. Or just a regular childhood with books, responsibilities, and engagement in various communities.

No-one is claiming this is the only way to do it. Also, kids who volunteer for this stuff usually have a certain amount of empathy. What this provides, or is intended to provide, is empathy with local knowledge and direct experience. One may agree or disagree, but a criticism that it isn't the best way of delivering services to the poor misses the mark.

So I can't agree that it is "stupid".

[Caliga]

What about this situation, Malthus?  A childhood friend of Princesca's went to Mali, but instead of being a giant hippy with the Peace Corps she instead went as a Southern Baptist missionary, ostensibly to help 'teach' the children of whatever shithole town she went to.  I guess she wasn't aware that the people of Mali already have a religion they are pretty well committed to?

[Jacob]

No-one is claiming this is the only way to do it. Also, kids who volunteer for this stuff usually have a certain amount of empathy. What this provides, or is intended to provide, is empathy with local knowledge and direct experience. One may agree or disagree, but a criticism that it isn't the best way of delivering services to the poor misses the mark.

So I can't agree that it is "stupid".

Well said.

99% of the people who are going on about volunteering being stupid are trying to justify being lazy and self-centred.

[Malthus]

What about this situation, Malthus?  A childhood friend of Princesca's went to Mali, but instead of being a giant hippy with the Peace Corps she instead went as a Southern Baptist missionary, ostensibly to help 'teach' the children of whatever shithole town she went to.  I guess she wasn't aware that the people of Mali already have a religion they are pretty well committed to?

Hey, I come from the Jewish tradition. In our tradition, being a missionary of any sort is just rude.

The Jewish attitude is: everyone should stick with their own absurd ancestral beliefs. Hey, ours are totally silly, and you don't see us trying to convince anyone else to believe this stuff, right? 

OTOH, if she's just there to help out because it's the good religious thing to do or whatever, and not to try and convince the people of Mali to be Baptists, not a big deal.

[Valmy]

The point isn't, in large part, the immediate benefit of the kid's labour - though that is nice.

The point is to engage the kid's empathy, so that rather than just "gawking at the poors", they approach their position in a somewhat different light - presumably making an ongoing difference.

If this is the case, an increase in immediate efficiency is of course welcome, but a lack of it isn't fatal.

Well if my kids want to do something like that I am going to tell them to help kids in our own city.  Not only can they help our legion of screwed over and forgotten impoverished children but they can actually form relationships that can benefit both parties over a lifetime.  Dropping in for a few weeks in what may be a phony orphanage designed to grap western dollars and then going back home feeling all empathetic for exotic impoverished children far away does not strike me as useful.  They might think things like how we are superior here in the US since we have nobody living under bad conditions like that...

[Caliga]

OTOH, if she's just there to help out because it's the good religious thing to do or whatever, and not to try and convince the people of Mali to be Baptists, not a big deal.

Yes, I'm sure trying to convert people wasn't on her agenda at all.

[mongers]

What about this situation, Malthus?  A childhood friend of Princesca's went to Mali, but instead of being a giant hippy with the Peace Corps she instead went as a Southern Baptist missionary, ostensibly to help 'teach' the children of whatever shithole town she went to.  I guess she wasn't aware that the people of Mali already have a religion they are pretty well committed to?

Personal arrogance and ignorance of somewhere, leads to ignorant behaviour and a intolerant reaction ? 

[Malthus]

OTOH, if she's just there to help out because it's the good religious thing to do or whatever, and not to try and convince the people of Mali to be Baptists, not a big deal.

Yes, I'm sure trying to convert people wasn't on her agenda at all.

Well, to the extent it is, it is rude.

[Valmy]

OTOH, if she's just there to help out because it's the good religious thing to do or whatever, and not to try and convince the people of Mali to be Baptists, not a big deal.

Well this is my biggest deal with missionaries.  My church just funds charities in South Africa, there is no agenda there.  We just have charity money so we spend it and sometimes some people from our church go down there (on their own dime) just to check up on things.  A 'missionary' thing is explicitely an attempt to convert people to your religion...and for alot of flavors of Christian they have to do this or they are going to hell.  Jesus ordered them to do it.  So the good religious thing is to convert the locals.  Charity for the impoverished is a pretty good converting tactic.

[Caliga]

What annoyed me much more than the Mali thing was when Princesca's family church did a mission trip to.... Switzerland (her aunt went on that trip).  Yes, I'm sure many of the Swiss yearn to be Southern Baptists.

I think you can safely chalk that one up to 'how can we get a free vacation'?

[mongers]

What annoyed me much more than the Mali thing was when Princesca's family church did a mission trip to.... Switzerland (her aunt went on that trip).  Yes, I'm sure many of the Swiss yearn to be Southern Baptists.

I think you can safely chalk that one up to 'how can we get a free vacation'?

Are there even snakes in Switzerland ?

[Valmy]

What annoyed me much more than the Mali thing was when Princesca's family church did a mission trip to.... Switzerland (her aunt went on that trip).  Yes, I'm sure many of the Swiss yearn to be Southern Baptists.

I think you can safely chalk that one up to 'how can we get a free vacation'?

The Swiss are notoriously curmudgeony about stuff like that...well about everything really but especially about religious stuff.  I cannot imagine that went well heh.

The one that annoys me is all the efforts in Israel...especially the constant preying on the weakest links in the society.  Considering the whole point of the country was because Christians kept slaughtering them it seemed particularly galling.

[Malthus]

The point isn't, in large part, the immediate benefit of the kid's labour - though that is nice.

The point is to engage the kid's empathy, so that rather than just "gawking at the poors", they approach their position in a somewhat different light - presumably making an ongoing difference.

If this is the case, an increase in immediate efficiency is of course welcome, but a lack of it isn't fatal.

Well if my kids want to do something like that I am going to tell them to help kids in our own city.  Not only can they help our legion of screwed over and forgotten impoverished children but they can actually form relationships that can benefit both parties over a lifetime.  Dropping in for a few weeks in what may be a phony orphanage designed to grap western dollars and then going back home feeling all empathetic for exotic impoverished children far away.  They might think things like how we are superior here in the US since we have nobody living under bad conditions like that...

Well, part of the alleged benefit of doing stuff like this is that they get an appreciation of, and some knowledge about, places far from home. Another is the self-reliance aspect of simply traveling and living far from home.

A kid can clearly *do* just as much good around his or her own town; but there are benefits *to the kid* to going abroad.

Not sure why the concept creates such hostility - I can see that it may well be dangerous, and may in some cases be a scam, and any Westerner going abriad can be comfortably accused of racism or whatever, but none of that explains the reflexive dislike I'm seeing.

Confession time: I've never done any volunteering of this sort for the disadvantaged, though I did work abroad as a volunteer at an archeological site. An experience that I still look back on with considerable fondness. Part of which can be explained by acquiring my first GF there ...