United States' first food forest to be built in Seattle

[derspiess]

Won't work, the hippies don't understand that my fellow spics will go and pick all the fruit and sell it. All of it.

Yeah, this has tragedy of the commons written all over it.

Uh, yeah.  Seattle is a city with a lot of nice, cooperative people but it only takes a few selfish types to screw it all up.

[Ideologue]

Won't work, the hippies don't understand that my fellow spics will go and pick all the fruit and sell it. All of it.

Yeah, this has tragedy of the commons written all over it.

I know a way to solve that tragedy by turning it into a statistic.

[Malthus]

I have my doubts as to its actual implementation. Caring for a wide variety of species in an urban environment takes a lot of ongoing work, which is very expensive in terms of labour, and I imagine an urban food source is going to be vulnerable to vandalism.

However, very interesting concept.

It's meant to be a permaculture forest, which means that it should require very little ongoing work compared to a typical field of veggies and fruits.

I dunno. Strikes me that having literally hundreds of species means dealing with hundreds of different kinds of pest, disease, and parasite.

This does not strike me as a cost and labour minimizing strategy. But perhaps my early experiences of agriculture - which convinced me that wringing actual food from the jaws of nature was a tough proposition - have soured me. Having weekends spent picking off potato beetles and cabbage cutworms can do that. 

[crazy canuck]

Having weekends spent picking off potato beetles and cabbage cutworms can do that. 

You rich kids get all the fun.

[merithyn]

I dunno. Strikes me that having literally hundreds of species means dealing with hundreds of different kinds of pest, disease, and parasite.

This does not strike me as a cost and labour minimizing strategy. But perhaps my early experiences of agriculture - which convinced me that wringing actual food from the jaws of nature was a tough proposition - have soured me. Having weekends spent picking off potato beetles and cabbage cutworms can do that. 

The permaculture philosophy entails planting the right kinds of plants near each other to help alleviate those kinds of problems. Just as they happen in nature rather than as they do in a structured, row garden. I've seen gardens like this, and they work amazingly well. I've never seen one this size before, nor have I known of any to be open for others to pick from. Because all of this requires a certain amount of balance, the way the fruits and such are harvested will probably affect how it all grows.

Only time will tell if it works, but I certainly hope it does.

[Admiral Yi]

The only way you could get a tragedy of the commons is if people went in and chopped down the trees.

[crazy canuck]

The only way you could get a tragedy of the commons is if people went in and chopped down the trees.

In the literal sense yes.  But in the wider meaning of that phrase if a group of Lusti's come in one night and take all the goods before anyone else can enjoy the harvest then the whole point of the project will have been undone.  People will stop caring for it and it will go to waste.

[merithyn]

I am not sure what urban community gardens are where you live but here there is no fee and people pretty much do as they please.  The only difference between what they are going to do in Seattle and what already occurs here is the size of the space that is going to be provided.

Well, there are these plots of land owned by the city that people can pay a small fee to rent for one year. People are allowed to do as they please with their bit of land, so long as what they do isn't permanent and doesn't infringe on their neighbors. In Champaign-Urbana, you can rent the same plot for consecutive years if you get your application in by the end of November. In the NW 'burbs of Chicago, you could request the same plot, but there were no guarantees that you'd get it, since the city wanted to make sure that the same plants weren't being put in the same plots year after year, therefore depleting the soil.

Perhaps we're not as enlightened - or have as much money to throw around - as Vancouver, but I'm pretty well-versed in how community gardens in our area and in the Chicago area work. Given that this particular garden being discussed is being built with the intent of having permanent plants, no individual plots, anyone can pick the produce, and there is no fee, it is not much at all like community gardens as I know them. Hence my comments.

[Admiral Yi]

In the literal sense yes.  But in the wider meaning of that phrase if a group of Lusti's come in one night and take all the goods before anyone else can enjoy the harvest then the whole point of the project will have been undone.  People will stop caring for it and it will go to waste.

It won't go to waste.  Lusti's cousins will sell it to people who eat it. 

The director of the project specifically said that if someone comes in on day one and harvests all the blueberries that would be fine with him.

The people is doesn't work for are those who would like the option value to go and pick some fruit if the mood strikes them at some undetermined time in the future.

[merithyn]

In the literal sense yes.  But in the wider meaning of that phrase if a group of Lusti's come in one night and take all the goods before anyone else can enjoy the harvest then the whole point of the project will have been undone.  People will stop caring for it and it will go to waste.

It won't go to waste.  Lusti's cousins will sell it to people who eat it. 

The director of the project specifically said that if someone comes in on day one and harvests all the blueberries that would be fine with him.

The people is doesn't work for are those who would like the option value to go and pick some fruit if the mood strikes them at some undetermined time in the future.

[lustindarkness]

I just wish some of my cousins send me a few $ after they sell all that fruit.

[Admiral Yi]

I just wish some of my cousins send me a few $ after they sell all that fruit.

No chance.  Those wifebeaters aren't free you know.

[crazy canuck]

Perhaps we're not as enlightened - or have as much money to throw around - as Vancouver, but I'm pretty well-versed in how community gardens in our area and in the Chicago area work. Given that this particular garden being discussed is being built with the intent of having permanent plants, no individual plots, anyone can pick the produce, and there is no fee, it is not much at all like community gardens as I know them. Hence my comments.

While it is undoubtly true that the area where you live is not as affluent or as enlightened as Vancouver (few areas of the world are) that has nothing to do with whether a fee is paid or not.

[merithyn]

While it is undoubtly true that the area where you live is not as affluent or as enlightened as Vancouver (few areas of the world are) that has nothing to do with whether a fee is paid or not.

Given that the fee pays for the upkeep of the garden area - something the city doesn't feel it should pay for - I'd say that it has everything to do with both.

A Fee = not as affluent
City doesn't feel it should pay = not as enlightened (by your standard)

Regardless, the point is that my comments were appropriate. Despite your best continued wishes, the whole of the world does not run as it does in Vancouver. You may have to broaden your horizons a bit and imagine a world beyond your personal borders so that you can converse with others on topics that you do not know well.

[derspiess]

Quick Meri-- scare him with your shotgun!  You did get one, right?