Putin: Winter War was fought to correct errors in border with Finland

Started by Syt, March 15, 2013, 05:00:52 AM

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Razgovory

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 19, 2013, 04:15:55 PM
No killing?

Ah so there was peaceful coexistence from 1923-1950, 1953-1966, 1966-1973, and 1973-1991?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

Quote from: Agelastus on March 19, 2013, 04:28:20 PM
Not actively trying to undermine the other side by every method short of direct open warfare on a daily basis would be part of my definition.

There's peaceful coexistence that allows for a degree of competition - consider British/American relations post the War of 1812, for example - and then there's the Cold War.

And as Yi has pointed out, at some points Americans and Soviets did shoot directly at each other, even if under the guise of being "advisors" to local forces.

Ah, so if we use that example of the US and UK, several near wars, efforts to undermine each other and the killing of each one an other's citizens.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Agelastus

Quote from: Razgovory on March 19, 2013, 04:52:10 PM
Ah, so if use that example of the US and UK, several near wars, efforts to undermine each other and the killing of each one another's citizens.

But not continuously, not as a matter of general policy, no huge armies facing each other for the whole period, no proxy wars, actual co-operation such as during the Boxer Rebellion, non-political trade. Or in other words, everything it was as peaceful co-existence the Cold War wasn't.

However, since you've now specified that you are including the period 1923 - 1941 in your period then yes, the USA and the USSR did peacefully co-exist - mostly because neither side gave a damn about the rest of the World. The USA was isolationist, and Stalin had dropped the COMINTERN (or its predecessor maybe...too many acronyms) because he was a nationalist and because it was Trotsky's baby.

Peaceful co-existence kinda implies actually giving a damn about what the other side does rather than simply ignoring each other due to not caring.

Of course, if you're including this period, and ignoring the occasional killing of each other's citizens as you are with the Cold War, then the USA and Nazi Germany peacefully co-existed between 1933 and 1941...or, putting it another way, for roughly 2/3 of Nazi Germany's existence.
"Come grow old with me
The Best is yet to be
The last of life for which the first was made."

Razgovory

Yeah, it was general policy in the US for a while.  The Policy was to push the territorial boundaries as far as they could go.  If peaceful coexistence can include raids into one another's territory, then so can armies staring at each other in Germany.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Eddie Teach

They were pushing into territory that neither side really occupied.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

DGuller

Caesar and Brutus peacefully co-existed for the vast majority of the time they've known together. :contract:

grumbler

Quote from: Agelastus on March 19, 2013, 05:00:02 PM
Peaceful co-existence kinda implies actually giving a damn about what the other side does rather than simply ignoring each other due to not caring.

Agreed.  IMO peaceful co-existence is distinguishable from mere peaceful existence mostly by the feature that you have a cause for dispute over a matter of mutual interest but mutually choose to avoid resort to violence. 

The US and UK exercised peaceful co-existence in the "Oregon Country" from 1818 until 1846.

The US and USSR practice hostile co-existence during the Cold War.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

I was under the impression the very phrase "peaceful coexistence" was first used to describe US-USSR relations.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017