ACLU Launches Nationwide Police Militarization Investigation

Started by jimmy olsen, March 06, 2013, 05:23:46 PM

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11B4V

#90
March 07, 2013, 07:35:39 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 07, 2013, 07:31:51 PM
Interesting.
Just checked and as it turns out the large capacity ammo provision strix quoted was added a brand new section and thus is not covered by the existing law enforcement exemption, which applies to only to specifically enumerated sections.

That is, the legislature forgot to amend and update the exemption to cover the new section.   
Oops.

Don't think there is any practical risk to law enforcement, but it does suggest sloppy draftsmanship.

Why is that not surprising.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

derspiess

#91
March 07, 2013, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 07, 2013, 07:31:51 PM
Interesting.
Just checked and as it turns out the large capacity ammo provision strix quoted was added a brand new section and thus is not covered by the existing law enforcement exemption, which applies to only to specifically enumerated sections.

That is, the legislature forgot to amend and update the exemption to cover the new section.   
Oops.

Don't think there is any practical risk to law enforcement, but it does suggest sloppy draftsmanship.

Cuomo had to be the first to "get something done".  That was of paramount importance.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

jimmy olsen

#92
March 07, 2013, 08:04:00 PM Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 08:30:55 PM by jimmy olsen
Quote from: 11B4V on March 07, 2013, 01:20:13 PM

I wouldnt call either one "pointless". How many civies know that heavily armed SWAT officers are on Patrol?. Or most departments have trained regular patrol officers in SWAT tactics? Or....I could go on. Point is your average civilian probaly doesnt know. Quit beind a Languish poster and put yourself in average civilian context. Valmey's post, is proof that both our posts were not pointless. His shows how ignorant the civilian masses are.

It's not that they're on patrol, it's they're used too much for things like serving warrants. The article I posted said there are police departments in Maryland which served every warrant with a SWAT team.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
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11B4V

#93
March 07, 2013, 08:26:15 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 07, 2013, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 07, 2013, 01:20:13 PM

I wouldnt call either one "pointless". How many civies know that heavily armed SWAT officers are on Patrol?. Or most departments have trained regular patrol officers in SWAT tactics? Or....I could go on. Point is your average civilian probaly doesnt know. Quit beind a Languish poster and put yourself in average civilian context. Valmey's post, is proof that both our posts were not pointless. His shows how ignorant the civilian masses are.

It's not that they're on patrol, it's they're used to much for things like serving warrants. The article I posted said there are police departments in Maryland which served every warrant with a SWAT team.

So
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

derspiess

#94
March 07, 2013, 08:43:11 PM Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 09:16:31 PM by derspiess
:lol: Ever been to PG county, Tim?
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

11B4V

#95
March 07, 2013, 09:00:24 PM
They dont even mention what type of warrant. I would bet money they are not serving non-felony warrants.

*Mr. Shitbag come with us. You have a warrant for failure to appear for unpaid parking tickets.*


Why doesnt the ACLU investigate that clusterfuck on The Hill. The people have a right to competent government. Fucking knobs.
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

#96
March 07, 2013, 10:07:39 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2013, 08:43:11 PM
:lol: Ever been to PG county, Tim?

Knowing PG County PD, it's probably the officers escorting the tactical guys so they have witnesses in case they execute somebody.

Berkut

#97
March 07, 2013, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2013, 04:47:09 PM
Whether or not the exemption is stated, unstated, implied, grandfathered, or whatever, the thought of SAFE applying to LEOs in New York still makes me giggle.

It is pretty funny that they managed to fuck up that bill so badly.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Berkut

#98
March 07, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2013, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 07, 2013, 07:31:51 PM
Interesting.
Just checked and as it turns out the large capacity ammo provision strix quoted was added a brand new section and thus is not covered by the existing law enforcement exemption, which applies to only to specifically enumerated sections.

That is, the legislature forgot to amend and update the exemption to cover the new section.   
Oops.

Don't think there is any practical risk to law enforcement, but it does suggest sloppy draftsmanship.

Cuomo had to be the first to "get something done".  That was of paramount importance.

I figured he was just trying to ram something through while the iron was hot, so to speak.

What is funny is that the faux outrage is aimed exclusively at Cuomo - he didn't pass the bill, he just signed it. It was passed by the legislature, right?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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derspiess

#99
March 07, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 07, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
I figured he was just trying to ram something through while the iron was hot, so to speak.

What is funny is that the faux outrage is aimed exclusively at Cuomo - he didn't pass the bill, he just signed it. It was passed by the legislature, right?

Yep.  But he didn't "just sign it".  He actively pushed for the legislation.  Doesn't let the legislature off the hook, but he deserves all the "faux outrage" he gets.  But it's not my state.  If you guys are okay with limiting your freedom like that, go ahead.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Habbaku

#100
March 07, 2013, 11:04:19 PM
I don't think it is entirely unfair for Cuomo to share in reaping some of the blame, though.  He seems to have been a vital component in getting that bill going.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Habbaku

#101
March 07, 2013, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 07, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
I figured he was just trying to ram something through while the iron was hot, so to speak.

What is funny is that the faux outrage is aimed exclusively at Cuomo - he didn't pass the bill, he just signed it. It was passed by the legislature, right?

Yep.  But he didn't "just sign it".  He actively pushed for the legislation.  Doesn't let the legislature off the hook, but he deserves all the "faux outrage" he gets.  But it's not my state.  If you guys are okay with limiting your freedom like that, go ahead.

:yes:
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.
-J. R. R. Tolkien

Berkut

#102
March 08, 2013, 12:22:24 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 07, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
I figured he was just trying to ram something through while the iron was hot, so to speak.

What is funny is that the faux outrage is aimed exclusively at Cuomo - he didn't pass the bill, he just signed it. It was passed by the legislature, right?

Yep.  But he didn't "just sign it".  He actively pushed for the legislation.  Doesn't let the legislature off the hook, but he deserves all the "faux outrage" he gets.  But it's not my state.  If you guys are okay with limiting your freedom like that, go ahead.

Oh, I am not saying he doesn't deserve the blame, just that he doesn't deserve it all.

And the idea that not being able to put 10 rounds in my gun is some kind of imposition on "freedom" is not very convincing to me.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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derspiess

#103
March 08, 2013, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 08, 2013, 12:22:24 AM
Quote from: derspiess on March 07, 2013, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on March 07, 2013, 10:54:29 PM
I figured he was just trying to ram something through while the iron was hot, so to speak.

What is funny is that the faux outrage is aimed exclusively at Cuomo - he didn't pass the bill, he just signed it. It was passed by the legislature, right?

Yep.  But he didn't "just sign it".  He actively pushed for the legislation.  Doesn't let the legislature off the hook, but he deserves all the "faux outrage" he gets.  But it's not my state.  If you guys are okay with limiting your freedom like that, go ahead.

Oh, I am not saying he doesn't deserve the blame, just that he doesn't deserve it all.

Cool.

QuoteAnd the idea that not being able to put 10 rounds in my gun is some kind of imposition on "freedom" is not very convincing to me.

Yeah, but then again you're on record as saying you want the 2nd Amendment repealed, so I'm not surprised to hear you say that.  In fact I guess I should just assume all your views on gun laws to be fringe-left and ignore them.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

CountDeMoney

#104
March 08, 2013, 09:54:29 AM
I can't fit 10 rounds into my revolver anyway, so it doesn't bother me a bit.
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