ACLU Launches Nationwide Police Militarization Investigation

[Strix]

Are you that obtuse. Really.

I was trying to respond to your pointless post. So if it seems obtuse that is only because of the material I had to work with.

[11B4V]

Are you that obtuse. Really.

I was trying to respond to your pointless post. So if it seems obtuse that is only because of the material I had to work with.

I wouldnt call either one "pointless". How many civies know that heavily armed SWAT officers are on Patrol?. Or most departments have trained regular patrol officers in SWAT tactics? Or....I could go on. Point is your average civilian probaly doesnt know. Quit beind a Languish poster and put yourself in average civilian context. Valmey's post, is proof that both our posts were not pointless. His shows how ignorant the civilian masses are.

SCUBA qualed officers patrolling in flippers and masks... Really, but dont laugh to hard. 

[garbon]

Valmy how do you feel to be an example of "how ignorant the civilian masses are"?

[Strix]

I wouldnt call either one "pointless". How many civies know that heavily armed SWAT officers are on Patrol?. Or most departments have trained regular patrol officers in SWAT tactics? Or....I could go on. Point is your average civilian probaly doesnt know. Quit beind a Languish poster and put yourself in average civilian context. Valmey's post, is proof that both our posts were not pointless. His shows how ignorant the civilian masses are.

SCUBA qualed officers patrolling in flippers and masks... Really, but dont laugh to hard.

I posted because Valmy appeared to be trying to insinuate that heavily armed SWAT officers in full gear were(are) patrolling the streets using squad based military tactics to enter neighborhoods.

SWAT trained officers carry regulation firearms and wear the same uniforms and gear that other officers do during the normal course of their duties as police officers. The heavy vests, web gear, grenades, rifles, and so on, are kept locked away until the officer is required to fulfill the capacity of a SWAT officer (which doesn't happen that often).

The whole issue of military tactics is a red herring being used by the ACLU to scare people. Ex-military have been becoming police officers since probably time began. In NY, they get extra points on police exams. And, it's only natural that ex-military gravitate towards their departments SWAT unit because of it's extra military type atmosphere (as compared to the average police unit). The only way to change this would be to ban ALL ex-military from working in law enforcement.

[KRonn]

In one sense I can see this as an entirely appropriate response to the growing militarisation of the American populous at large.

Hey, we need to offset the militarization of the police and homeland security!   

Damn ACLU though. Can't even have a quasi police state anymore.     

[Strix]

On the bright side for the ACLU...

Once the SAFE act takes effect in NY. Most police/peace officers will be to busy arresting each other for carrying magazines that can hold more than seven bullets at a time to bother the average citizen.

And don't forget, in the case of a Sandy Hook episode in NY, there won't be anyone in the schools with firearms. Police will now have to get written permission from the school administration to bring firearms on the premises.

[DontSayBanana]

How many civies know that heavily armed SWAT officers are on Patrol?. Or most departments have trained regular patrol officers in SWAT tactics?

How many?  How about anyone who's watched or read the news in the weeks immediately following any active shooter- incident- ramping up police tactics and training ALWAYS comes up.

[Admiral Yi]

I didn't know that.  I thought they sat around in their SWAT club house all day wisecracking and talking tough.

[Berkut]

On the bright side for the ACLU...

Once the SAFE act takes effect in NY. Most police/peace officers will be to busy arresting each other for carrying magazines that can hold more than seven bullets at a time to bother the average citizen.

That is a lie. The state has already stated that the act does not apply to law enforcement officers, and would not be enforced in that manner.

And don't forget, in the case of a Sandy Hook episode in NY, there won't be anyone in the schools with firearms. Police will now have to get written permission from the school administration to bring firearms on the premises.

That is utter bullshit.

Why do you bother just blatantly lying about stuff like this? You have to know that there are people who will know it is a lie and call you out on it.

The SAFE act is a hot mess of legislation, but you just look like an a-hole when you just make shit up, which ends up making people actually MORE supportive of stupid crap like SAFE, not less.

[Strix]

On the bright side for the ACLU...

Once the SAFE act takes effect in NY. Most police/peace officers will be to busy arresting each other for carrying magazines that can hold more than seven bullets at a time to bother the average citizen.

That is a lie. The state has already stated that the act does not apply to law enforcement officers, and would not be enforced in that manner.

And don't forget, in the case of a Sandy Hook episode in NY, there won't be anyone in the schools with firearms. Police will now have to get written permission from the school administration to bring firearms on the premises.

That is utter bullshit.

Why do you bother just blatantly lying about stuff like this? You have to know that there are people who will know it is a lie and call you out on it.

The SAFE act is a hot mess of legislation, but you just look like an a-hole when you just make shit up, which ends up making people actually MORE supportive of stupid crap like SAFE, not less.

Berkut, provide some facts when calling me a liar. 

[fhdz]

Berkut, provide some facts when calling me a liar.

The burden of proof's on you, dude, sorry.

You're the one who made the statements. Back 'em up or GTFO.

[Strix]

Berkut, provide some facts when calling me a liar.

The burden of proof's on you, dude, sorry.

You're the one who made the statements. Back 'em up or GTFO.

S 265.36 UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF  A  LARGE  CAPACITY  AMMUNITION  FEEDING
   22             DEVICE.
   23    IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO KNOWINGLY POSSESS A LARGE CAPACI-
   24  TY  AMMUNITION  FEEDING DEVICE MANUFACTURED BEFORE SEPTEMBER THIRTEENTH,
   25  NINETEEN HUNDRED NINETY-FOUR, AND IF SUCH PERSON LAWFULLY POSSESSED SUCH
   26  LARGE CAPACITY FEEDING DEVICE BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF  THE  CHAPTER
   27  OF  THE LAWS OF TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN WHICH ADDED THIS SECTION, THAT HAS
   28  A CAPACITY OF, OR THAT CAN BE READILY RESTORED OR CONVERTED  TO  ACCEPT,
   29  MORE THAN TEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION.
   30    AN  INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS A REASONABLE BELIEF THAT SUCH DEVICE IS OF SUCH
   31  A CHARACTER THAT IT MAY LAWFULLY BE  POSSESSED  AND  WHO  SURRENDERS  OR
   32  LAWFULLY DISPOSES OF SUCH DEVICE WITHIN THIRTY DAYS OF BEING NOTIFIED BY
   33  LAW  ENFORCEMENT  OR  COUNTY LICENSING OFFICIALS THAT SUCH POSSESSION IS
   34  UNLAWFUL SHALL NOT BE GUILTY OF THIS OFFENSE. IT SHALL BE  A  REBUTTABLE
   35  PRESUMPTION  THAT  SUCH PERSON KNOWS THAT SUCH LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION
   36  FEEDING DEVICE MAY NOT BE LAWFULLY POSSESSED  IF  HE  OR  SHE  HAS  BEEN
   37  CONTACTED  BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OR COUNTY LICENSING OFFICIALS AND INFORMED
   38  THAT SUCH DEVICE MAY NOT BE LAWFULLY POSSESSED.
   39    UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF A LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE IS A
   40  CLASS A MISDEMEANOR.
   41  S 265.37 UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF CERTAIN AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.
   42    IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO KNOWINGLY POSSESS  AN  AMMUNITION
   43  FEEDING  DEVICE THAT SUCH PERSON LAWFULLY POSSESSED BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE
   44  DATE OF THE CHAPTER OF THE LAWS OF TWO  THOUSAND  THIRTEEN  WHICH  ADDED
   45  THIS SECTION, THAT HAS A CAPACITY OF, OR THAT CAN BE READILY RESTORED OR
   46  CONVERTED  TO ACCEPT MORE THAN SEVEN BUT LESS THAN TEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNI-
   47  TION, WHERE SUCH DEVICE CONTAINS MORE THAN SEVEN ROUNDS OF AMMUNITION.
   48    IF SUCH DEVICE CONTAINING MORE THAN  SEVEN  ROUNDS  OF  AMMUNITION  IS
   49  POSSESSED WITHIN THE HOME OF THE POSSESSOR, THE PERSON SO POSSESSING THE
   50  DEVICE  SHALL, FOR A FIRST OFFENSE, BE GUILTY OF A VIOLATION AND SUBJECT
   51  TO A FINE OF TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS, AND FOR A SECOND OFFENSE, BE GUILTY OF
   52  A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR AND SUBJECT TO A FINE OF TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS AND A
   53  TERM OF UP TO THREE MONTHS IMPRISONMENT.
   54    IF SUCH DEVICE CONTAINING MORE THAN  SEVEN  ROUNDS  OF  AMMUNITION  IS
   55  POSSESSED  IN  ANY  LOCATION  OTHER  THAN THE HOME OF THE POSSESSOR, THE
   56  PERSON SO POSSESSING THE DEVICE SHALL, FOR A FIRST OFFENSE, BE GUILTY OF
       S. 2230                            25                            A. 2388

    1  A CLASS B MISDEMEANOR AND SUBJECT TO A FINE OF TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS AND A
    2  TERM OF UP TO SIX MONTHS IMPRISONMENT, AND  FOR  A  SECOND  OFFENSE,  BE
    3  GUILTY OF A CLASS A MISDEMEANOR.

That is the section on magazines. There is no exemption for police/peace officers.

I am looking up the school one now...We were given a memo by our administration not to enter school grounds with a weapon unless given permission because of the SAFE act, so it is in there.

[CountDeMoney]

I didn't know that.  I thought they sat around in their SWAT club house all day wisecracking and talking tough.

Depends if they're detailed full-time to the unit or not.  Most of your larger cities' agencies have their tactical people on a rotational basis for full-time detail since 9/11, but usually on day shift, and for only a couple weeks at a time.
And they're usually at the range punching holes in paper whilst wisecracking and talking tough.

[Berkut]

Cuomo has already publically stated that the law does not in any way restrict police officers or make anything police officers are currently do or able to do illegal.

So your claim that "...Once the SAFE act takes effect in NY. Most police/peace officers will be to busy arresting each other for carrying magazines that can hold more than seven bullets at a time" is a lie. You knew it was a lie when you said it.

[garbon]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/18/ny-guv-looks-to-clarify-gun-law-after-concern-about-exemption-for-police/

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's office is working on amendments to clarify the newly passed gun-control law, following complaints that it did not explicitly exempt police officers from a ban on high-capacity magazines.

The state law bans magazines over seven rounds -- police officers typically use magazines that hold twice as many bullets. Critics of the law claimed the alleged oversight was a product of the haste with which the package was passed through the legislature.

"This could have been avoided," Republican Assemblyman Al Graf told FoxNews.com.

However, Cuomo's office insists police officers are still exempt.

"Police officers possessing ammunition clip with more than seven bullets are not in violation of this law and they never will be, period," Cuomo spokesman Matthew Wing said.

While the new law did not include an explicit exemption for police, the old law which capped the number of rounds in a magazine at 10 bullets did. Technically, the new law likely would not override that exemption.

But some lawmakers were concerned there could be confusion. Graf said if the governor's office does not craft an amendment explicitly exempting officers, he will.

"If (Cuomo) didn't do this the way he did, he wouldn't be so embarrassed today," said Graf, complaining that lawmakers had very little time to read and digest the bill before it was muscled through the legislature and signed into law.

Graf also said he wants to write an amendment explicitly exempting retired officers -- further, he claimed there is confusion about whether on- and off-duty officers can have a gun on school grounds.

The law, though, does not actually create a new rule against having a firearm on school grounds. Rather, it upgrades the offense from a misdemeanor to a felony.

The New York package was the first signed into law since the mass shooting in Newtown, Conn. - which has galvanized the gun-control movement to push for new laws at the state and federal level.

On Wednesday, President Obama called for a new and stronger assault-weapons ban and a 10-round cap on magazines.

The New York law strengthened the state's assault-weapons ban, while imposing stricter registration and reporting requirements on gun dealers. The law also banned direct sales of ammunition on the Internet, and enacted universal background checks.

Further, the law imposed a requirement on mental health professionals to report if a patient appears likely to commit a violent act. More than two-dozen states already have such a requirement on the books.

Still, the move by New York to impose one stirred criticism that it could discourage patients from seeking help - the law says local law enforcement can seize the guns of any patient deemed a threat.

"The people who arguably most need to be in treatment and most need to feel free to talk about these disturbing impulses, may be the ones we make least likely to do so," Dr. Paul Appelbaum at Columbia University told The Associated Press.