Lech Walesa: Put gays behind a wall

[Syt]

http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/128799,Lech-Walesa-%E2%80%93-Gays-should-be-made-to-sit-at-the-back-in-parliament

Lech Walesa – 'Gays should be made to sit at the back in parliament'

In an astonishing outburst against homosexuals, former Solidarity leader Lech Walesa has said that gay MPs should sit at the back of the parliament chamber, or even "behind a wall".

"Homosexuals should sit on the last bench in the plenary hall, or even behind the wall, and not somewhere at the front," Walesa, who was president of Poland from 1990 to 1995, told the TVN24 broadcaster on Friday evening.

Walesa was giving his views on recent debates in parliament about legalising civil partnerships for hetro and homosexuals in Poland and other social issues, when he said: "a minority cannot impose itself on the majority".

"They must know they are a minority and adapt themselves to smaller things," the 1983 Nobel Peace Prize winner and staunch Roman Catholic said, adding that he would not have voted for Anna Grodzka, Europe's only transsexual MP, when she was nominated by her party, the Palikot Movement, to become deputy speaker of parliament in January.

Robert Biedron, who became Poland's first ever openly gay MP in the 2011 general election, responded to the outburst by saying, "I would be happy to meet with Lech Walesa".

"I love Lech Walesa - because if it was not for him I would not be here sitting with you," Biedron, also an MP for the liberal-left Palikot Movement, told a TVN journalist, referring to Walesa's role in toppling communism.

"But his son [Jaroslaw Walesa, who is a member of the European Parliament] should sit him down and explain a few things: civil partnerships, IVF," Biedron added.

The ruling centre-right Civic Platform party – who Lech Walesa has given qualified support to in the past - has yet to come to a unified stance on civil partnerships and state funding for the IVF treatment.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk has said that the party will meet on Monday to decide the fate of leading Civic Platform conservative, Justice Minister Jaroslaw Gowin, within the government, after he led campaigns to block votes in parliament legalising civil partnerships. (pg)

[The Brain]

Unless women also have to sit at the back it's discrimination.

[Martinus]

When we had trade union protests earlier in 2012, he said the police should use tear gas and beat them up with batons. Then he endorsed Romney. For an ex-trade union leader that's quite a feat.

The guy has never been a titan of intellect, but he is completely erratic in his dotage.

What I am surprised about is that the main stream media are today announcing the "end of his legend", as if his catastrophic presidential rule in the 1990s, or a whole lot of idiotic pronouncements every now and then didn't do that.

I guess you don't mess with the gays.

[Neil]

I guess there are some Poles who aren't totally retarded.

[Razgovory]

I guess there are some Poles who aren't totally retarded.

They immigrated to the US. 

[garbon]

The guy has never been a titan of intellect, but he is completely erratic in his dotage.

What I am surprised about is that the main stream media are today announcing the "end of his legend", as if his catastrophic presidential rule in the 1990s, or a whole lot of idiotic pronouncements every now and then didn't do that.

Also, gays generally adapt themselves to larger things not smaller ones. Silly Lech.

[Ed Anger]

 

[merithyn]

The ruling centre-right Civic Platform party – who Lech Walesa has given qualified support to in the past - has yet to come to a unified stance on civil partnerships and state funding for the IVF treatment.

Okay, it's a given that Lech is an idiot on the whole gay thing. He's been quite an idiot about a lot of things in the recent past.

What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the bolded part. Is it common in countries with state-funded medical care to pay for IVF? What the justification for that? Do they also cover abortions? (I'm assuming that abortions are legal in Poland. Is that a poor assumption?)

Obviously, I know next to nothing about what's covered and what's not in state-funded care. Even if we ever did get Medicare for all, I can't imagine that IVF would be covered. Certainly, abortions would not. I'm just trying to figure out where the line is when the state pays for it.

[Martinus]

As a matter of fact, Poland has very restrictive abortion laws (probably the most restrictive in the EU), with abortion being permitted only if 1) the fetus has a grave and irreversible birth defect, 2) there is a serious threat to the health or life of the mother, or 3) pregnancy is a result of a criminal act - and no. 1) and 3) are only allowed until the 12th week of the pregnancy. In practice, because of the short time limit, it is very difficult to get the abortion under 1) or 3), especially as many doctors are either idiot catholics or intimidated by catholics, so they refuse or stall prenatal tests - Poland has been scolded for this by the ECHR several times in the past The result is that most abortion are either done in illegal black market clinics (for the poor) or in other EU countries (for those better off).

I cannot find whether there is state funding provided, but it seems it is not funded - although I don't really see why it wouldn't be, at least in the scenario no. 2.

Personally, I don't see why the IVF treatment wouldn't be covered by state health care - again, Poland is a pretty bad case study as we are both poor and backward, but considering many Western European countries cover gender reassignment surgeries and similar procedures and treatments (which are not "life saving") but improve quality of life, I don't see why it shouldn't be. The justification for this is both eudaimonic (the job of the government should be to make as many people as possible happy) and demographic (we need the population to breed).

Btw, just to shock you, France has full state funding of abortions (for any reasons) and the IVF (including for single moms and lesbian couples).

[Maladict]

In our system IVF is paid for by the government up to age 43. Abortion is covered too, as is euthanasia.
I suppose all of it benefits the state in the end, so why wouldn't they pay for it?

[DGuller]

In our system IVF is paid for by the government up to age 43. Abortion is covered too, as is euthanasia.
I suppose all of it benefits the state in the end, so why wouldn't they pay for it?

If you do the three in quick succession, then it probably won't benefit the state.

[merithyn]

Btw, just to shock you, France has full state funding of abortions (for any reasons) and the IVF (including for single moms and lesbian couples).

Not shocked. I just know that won't happen in the US in my lifetime, if ever.

[Richard Hakluyt]

They are both state funded in the UK. There are rules and restrictions of course.

[Josephus]

Poland! Seriously in need of another partition.

[Ed Anger]

Btw, just to shock you, France has full state funding of abortions (for any reasons) and the IVF (including for single moms and lesbian couples).

Not shocked. I just know that won't happen in the US in my lifetime, if ever.

GO TO CUBA.