Eugene of Savoy: General, Gay Icon

[The Brain]

Western European armies were fairly poor at the time. Civilian artillery drivers? Buying and selling colonelcies?

[Caliga]

I spent my teen years in Marlborough.

[garbon]

I spent my teen years in Marlborough.

True story but then I guess it was a pretty safe and fairly wholesome place to grow up*.

*Particularly my neighborhood.

[Caliga]

 

[Admiral Yi]

Cal lived on Powite and grab lived on Richblack.

[garbon]

Cal lived on Powite and grab lived on Richblack.

Actually Cal lived in Poor Brazil and I lived in Rich White - though there was a black family and one latino family that moved in by the time I was going off to college.

[Caliga]

though there was a black family and one latino family that moved in by the time I was going off to college.

GODDAMNIT IT EDITH THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD

[garbon]

though there was a black family and one latino family that moved in by the time I was going off to college.

GODDAMNIT IT EDITH THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD

We used to have the cops regularly drive through until the ex-fire chief moved away (rumor was money troubles). Instead a white family with like 7 kids moved in.

[Malthus]

The Italian who fled France and fought Turks in order to keep Hungary Austrian. 

[alfred russel]

Agree that it is an interesting period that tends to be overlooked.  Primarily I think because the results of most of the wars was status quo ante.  Unless you look further east, to the beginning of the Ottoman decline and the rise of Russia.

Also it is rather difficult to get jazzed up about what they were fighting over. The War of Spanish Succession was the main event of the era (at least until the War of Austrian Succession), and every side was just making their own power plays (including prominent leaders such as Prince Eugene).

[Malthus]

Agree that it is an interesting period that tends to be overlooked.  Primarily I think because the results of most of the wars was status quo ante.  Unless you look further east, to the beginning of the Ottoman decline and the rise of Russia.

Also it is rather difficult to get jazzed up about what they were fighting over. The War of Spanish Succession was the main event of the era (at least until the War of Austrian Succession), and every side was just making their own power plays (including prominent leaders such as Prince Eugene).

What makes it interesting to me is the sheer wierdness of the personal stories of most of the prominent figures.

I mean, a former gigolo (Marlborough) and the runty, gay son of a Satanist poisoner (Eugene) are the heroes of a war caused by the question of succession of a man so racked by inbreeding that he was held up by strings as a child like a human marionette (Carlos 'the Sufferer') and spends his adult life literally longing for death.   

But I disagree that the issues were unimportant. The real issue was whether Louie the 14th was going to dominate Europe like a bewigged, platform-shoe-wearing collossus, creating a sort of chic Roman Empire, and forcing the Dutch to indulge in unspeakable frivolities (such as Catholicism) with dragonnades.   

[The Brain]

The giants of the age were to be found in the North and East. An Olympian defending his realm against a Titan (and the Titan's friends).

[alfred russel]

What makes it interesting to me is the sheer wierdness of the personal stories of most of the prominent figures.

I mean, a former gigolo (Marlborough) and the runty, gay son of a Satanist poisoner (Eugene) are the heroes of a war caused by the question of succession of a man so racked by inbreeding that he was held up by strings as a child like a human marionette (Carlos 'the Sufferer') and spends his adult life literally longing for death.   

I think a lot of those have to be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe Marlborough used his charms with the ladies to his advantage, but I think calling him a gigolo is a bit much. Eugene's characterization probably has a bit of historical slander in it.

But I disagree that the issues were unimportant. The real issue was whether Louie the 14th was going to dominate Europe like a bewigged, platform-shoe-wearing collossus, creating a sort of chic Roman Empire, and forcing the Dutch to indulge in unspeakable frivolities (such as Catholicism) with dragonnades.   

I agree they were definitely important (BB and I once had an argument started by my assertion that the War of Spanish Succession was one of the most important in history). But ultimately they were just about power: and everyone wanted to dominate. The ultimate result that no one did is important, but it doesn't lend itself to a very engaging narrative for the casual history reader.

[Ed Anger]

though there was a black family and one latino family that moved in by the time I was going off to college.

GODDAMNIT IT EDITH THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD

I laughed.

[Syt]

succession of a man so racked by inbreeding that he was held up by strings as a child like a human marionette (Carlos 'the Sufferer') and spends his adult life literally longing for death.

In "Pursuit of Glory" there's a passage explaining his state and that he would often refuse to leave the bed for long periods of time. Not even for bowel movements. Supposedly one of the few things that could cheer him up was when the famous castrato Farinelli sang in the adjacent room for him.