EU and US free-trade talks launched

[Sheilbh]

We've had a thread on that. I think organic meat is worth it, not necessarily for the organicness but the other stuff that'll go with it (free range etc.) but that there's little quality difference in most fruit and veg.

[Razgovory]

The smugness and feeling of moral superiority is worth the price alone.

[garbon]

The smugness and feeling of moral superiority is worth the price alone.

[Eddie Teach]

The smugness and feeling of moral superiority is worth the price alone.

Really, I'd just feel like a schmuck.

[Razgovory]

The smugness and feeling of moral superiority is worth the price alone.

Really, I'd just feel like a schmuck.

Yeah, I don't think organically grown meat will fix that.

[Tamas]

The smugness and feeling of moral superiority is worth the price alone.

It's really kind of funny. The middle/upper class in Europe, who feel constant guilt over having it well, turn to food -of all things- as status symbol.

[Sheilbh]

It's really kind of funny. The middle/upper class in Europe, who feel constant guilt over having it well, turn to food -of all things- as status symbol.

Food's always been a status symbol.

[Tamas]

It's really kind of funny. The middle/upper class in Europe, who feel constant guilt over having it well, turn to food -of all things- as status symbol.

Food's always been a status symbol.

for sure, but considering that the developed world's non-poor should feel guilty for consuming too much, it is controversial that it is considered okay for them to support and endorse food products which take away valuable space and resources which could be used to prepare lower quality, but considerably cheaper food.

[Sheilbh]

Why should they feel guilty? Why should space and resources go to produce cheaper food?

I mean unless the salvation of the world is really the European agriculture sector I don't understand. Is a rare breed farm in Shropshire really contributing to any global hunger?

[Tamas]

Why should they feel guilty? Why should space and resources go to produce cheaper food?

I mean unless the salvation of the world is really the European agriculture sector I don't understand. Is a rare breed farm in Shropshire really contributing to any global hunger?

saying that organic and open herding or whatever > modern agriculture means the endorsement of famine, or at least less population than what we have now and what we could feed.

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with having these food products available, I consume them myself often. What I am not fine with, is acting all superior because of eating these. Poor people can't afford them, and if "evöl mass produced food" weren't available, a lot of people would not be alive then.

[crazy canuck]

We've had a thread on that. I think organic meat is worth it, not necessarily for the organicness but the other stuff that'll go with it (free range etc.) but that there's little quality difference in most fruit and veg.

Yeah, people that cant tell the difference between organic (or at least grass fed) beef and industrial beef have lost the ability to taste food.

Same goes with organic (or at least free range) eggs.

[Sheilbh]

saying that organic and open herding or whatever > modern agriculture means the endorsement of famine, or at least less population than what we have now and what we could feed.

To be fair to the Greens they tend to think the earth's massively overpopulated and that we need to have lots less children. I disagree with them, and you, because I'm an optimistic liberal

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with having these food products available, I consume them myself often. What I am not fine with, is acting all superior because of eating these. Poor people can't afford them, and if "evöl mass produced food" weren't available, a lot of people would not be alive then.

I don't get this attitude. If people want to spend more on food and can afford to and it makes them feel better about themselves then so what? There's lots of things poor people can't afford it doesn't mean everyone else should self-flagellate or view the things they can afford any differently.

And I don't think that anyone organic acts superior to the poor. Their general view seems to be that you should buy organic, environmentally friendly, well-spoken produce as far as you can afford it. Their ire is far more likely to be on their fellow bourgeois who fail to 'shop ethically'.

Yeah, people that cant tell the difference between organic (or at least grass fed) beef and industrial beef have lost the ability to taste food.

Same goes with organic (or at least free range) eggs.

Yep, on both counts.

[Zanza]

saying that organic and open herding or whatever > modern agriculture means the endorsement of famine, or at least less population than what we have now and what we could feed.

People that are threatened by famine are typically subsistence farmers in the third world. If they can't grow enough to feed themselves, they won't be able to buy any industrial agricultural products either as they simply have no money. And the world already makes more than enough food to feed everybody - it's just that it does not reach the poorest of the poor. That wouldn't change one bit even if all organic food production would switch to the highest efficiency industrial production. If famine among the poorest is your concern, the question of industrial vs. organic food in rich countries is not relevant.

[Grey Fox]

We've had a thread on that. I think organic meat is worth it, not necessarily for the organicness but the other stuff that'll go with it (free range etc.) but that there's little quality difference in most fruit and veg.

Yeah, people that cant tell the difference between organic (or at least grass fed) beef and industrial beef have lost the ability to taste food.

Same goes with organic (or at least free range) eggs.

Not this again.

[garbon]

We've had a thread on that. I think organic meat is worth it, not necessarily for the organicness but the other stuff that'll go with it (free range etc.) but that there's little quality difference in most fruit and veg.

Yeah, people that cant tell the difference between organic (or at least grass fed) beef and industrial beef have lost the ability to taste food.

Same goes with organic (or at least free range) eggs.

Not this again.

If you don't say anything, we can stop it.