Austrian voters decide to keep conscript army

[Syt]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/conscripts-professionals-austria-votes-army-18262550

Austria Backs Status Quo Conscript Army

Austrians voted overwhelmingly Sunday to retain their conscript army, with preliminary results showing around 60 percent rejecting the proposed shift to a professional force.

The wide margin of victory came as a surprise, since pre-election surveys had that side ahead by only a few percentage points.

The results, published by the Interior Ministry, had 59.8 percent backing the present system and 40.2 percent voting to change it. Overall turnout was 49 percent. Absentee votes were still to be tallied but were not expected to change the outcome.

Participation was highest in rural areas and lowest in Vienna, the capital, according to polling organizations.

More than 54 percent of the Viennese voted to have a professional armed force. But with conscripts frequently recruited to help prevent natural catastrophes — or clean up afterward — rural voters in this Alpine nation clearly felt that a professional army would not be filling sandbags to prevent flooding or shoveling out basements after mudslides.

They also heeded warnings that changing the system would hit Austria's social sector, which depends on conscientious objectors to serve as ambulance drivers, attendants for the elderly and in other low-paid community jobs.

The referendum highlighted preferences between Austria's two uneasy coalition partners. The Socialists urged voters to follow most nations in the 27-nation European Union, where 21 countries have professional armies, while the centrist People's Party backed keeping the present system.

Austria's armed forces now consist of about 35,000 troops — 14,000 professionals and the rest conscripts who serve for six months — as well as a 30,000-strong part-time militia. The proposed reform wanted 8,500 career soldiers, 7,000 who sign up for an average of three years, 9,300 militia members and more focus on fighting terrorism and cyber-attacks.

"I voted to keep this status as it is," said Jono Englander, 62. "If this turns into a professional army, where people just go because they want to, then I think we are going to send ... our young people often to wars."

Others had a simple argument for opposing the present setup.

"I voted against it because I don't want to go into the army," said 16-year-old Johannes Schmidt.

This whole affair was very curious.

There's long been discussion that the Austrian military needs to be reformed and modernized. It raised the question - inevitably - whether or not conscription should stay. The Social Democrat defense minister was for keeping it.

Queue the mayor of Vienna (a heavyweight both literally and figuratively in the Social Democrats) saying that he would like to have a general referendum on the issue and that he's for abolishing conscription. The Social Democrat party agrees, so the defense minister is now in favor of abolishing conscription.

The conservative party (in coalition with the social democrats in the federal government) are for keeping conscription. The lines are drawn, a referendum date is set and then . . . nothing. For months the topic doesn't come up much in public discussion, except when commentators ask why it doesn't come up. The general impression is that the parties don't care either way and that's why they hand the decision to the voters.

Two weeks ago, the parties start campaigning, reluctantly. In the end, the conservatives win out with the reasons given above: conscientious objectors for the social services and the army's role in disaster relief. Exit polls find that the country's defense is not on the voters minds.

Analysis shows that the young voted against subscription, the old in favor of it. Also, looking at states, only Vienna voted for abolishing conscription. Still, voter turnout was much higher in the states than in Vienna.

So now the defense minister is considered the big loser, because he had switched completely to the professional army stance, to the point where they had "prototype units" serving under his proposed professionals only concept. Now he has to go back to the drawing board.

Conservatives and Social Democrats shake hands and return to governing (general elections are set for Fall).

At least the border duty for conscripts is over. After the opening of the Eastern borders, conscripts were used to patrol the borders to Czech Rep., Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia. They had very limited authority (if they spotted something suspicious, they had to get the real border guards), but it was very popular with the people living in those regions, because they were afraid of hordes of Easterners crossing the border to break into homes, or human trafficking. It ended a few years ago, with little fanfare - the usual suspects expected a huge rise in crime, but that has failed to materialize.

Austria participates in some international missions, but only sends professional soldiers there, not conscripts:

[Viking]

Is Austria going the way of other NATO conscript armies by having 80%+ deferment rates on military service and conscripts not even being needed for cooking and cleaning while the real army is a small group of long term serving professionals equipped with the best equipment and training there is which is perfectly capable of serving in overseas missions but unable to stop the 11 motor rifle divisions of the Murmansk Military District? y'know, like Norway?

[DGuller]

Is Austria going the way of other NATO conscript armies by having 80%+ deferment rates on military service and conscripts not even being needed for cooking and cleaning while the real army is a small group of long term serving professionals equipped with the best equipment and training there is which is perfectly capable of serving in overseas missions but unable to stop the 11 motor rifle divisions of the Murmansk Military District? y'know, like Norway?

Maybe.

[Syt]

Is Austria going the way of other NATO conscript armies by having 80%+ deferment rates on military service and conscripts not even being needed for cooking and cleaning while the real army is a small group of long term serving professionals equipped with the best equipment and training there is which is perfectly capable of serving in overseas missions but unable to stop the 11 motor rifle divisions of the Murmansk Military District? y'know, like Norway?

Austria is not in NATO. They're pretty big on the "everlasting neutrality" thing that the Soviets demanded from them. 50 years later, and there's a small vocal group thinking that joining the EU violated that and will force Austria to participate in non-defensive combat missions.

Anyways: could be. Conscription is only 6 months, anyways (social services is 9 months). And so far they've conscripted everyone I know (age limit s 35). A friend of mine finished university aged 33, and they were there waiting for him (he drove an ambulance for 9 months).

[MadImmortalMan]

5 people in Georgia? Does that actually count as involvement?

[syk]

5 people in Georgia? Does that actually count as involvement?

Try sending 5 Austrian soldiers on a UN mission to the other Georgia and see.

[Josquius]

How much of this was down to selfishness/schadenfreude of folks who had to suffer through that shit and don't think its fair the damn youngsters these days should get out of it?
Are women excluded in Austria?

I would definitely have voted against. Austria is one of those countries that could probally get away without having much of an army at all.

[Syt]

How much of this was down to selfishness/schadenfreude of folks who had to suffer through that shit and don't think its fair the damn youngsters these days should get out of it?
Are women excluded in Austria?

Austrian women are excluded. The argument is that even today it's overwhelmingly the woman who stays home to raise kids (at least for the first year), so it's levelling the playing field in careers-

[Razgovory]

What is the point of sending one guy to a West Africa?  Is he like James Bond, or something?

[Syt]

What is the point of sending one guy to a West Africa?  Is he like James Bond, or something?

He is an adviser for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_for_West_Africa

[CountDeMoney]

Considering what a nasty bunch the Austrians are when they get together in large, uniformed groups, I'd as soon not see them send large numbers of troops anywhere.

[The Larch]

Nobody mentioned the cheeky headline yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1kHrTTtAqM

[Duque de Bragança]

Well, nobody expects Austria to send their elite Gebirgsjäger in Mali. Not that are they suited for the ambient anyways.

[Razgovory]

What is the point of sending one guy to a West Africa?  Is he like James Bond, or something?

He is an adviser for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_for_West_Africa

What does he advise them on?

[Syt]

What is the point of sending one guy to a West Africa?  Is he like James Bond, or something?

He is an adviser for: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Office_for_West_Africa

What does he advise them on?

http://www.bmeia.gv.at/en/foreign-ministry/news/press-releases/2012/waldner-hauptausschuss-stimmt-fuer-die-verlaengerung-der-entsendung-eines-oesterreichischen-militaerberaters-zum-westafrika-buero-der-uno.html

Waldner: Extended deployment of an Austrian military advisor to the UN Office for West Africa approved by National Council

Vienna, 19 April 2012 – "The Main Committee of the Austrian National Council today approved the extension for the mission of an Austrian military advisor to the United Nations Office for West Africa (UNOWA) for a further year", State Secretary Wolfgang Waldner said.

The headquarters of UNOWA are in Dakar, Senegal; the Office deals with cross-border effects of regional conflicts.

The State Secretary explained that the situation in Mali and Guinea Bissau and the humanitarian conditions in the Sahel Region are especially alarming. "Security and stability in West Africa are of particular relevance for the European Union and Austria because the threat to security does not stop at borders and involves organized crime, drug and human trafficking. The UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) located here in Vienna also contributes its share to combating these crimes."

The State Secretary concluded: "Our involvement in UNOWA is part of Austria's contribution to mastering the new, security-related challenges in the West-African region and Sahel. The invitation of the UN to send a military advisor to the UNOWA also reflects recognition by the United Nations of Austrian professionalism and expertise and Austrian involvement in the region."