401k and other retirement plans: have you raided yours yet?

[Grey Fox]

You have that thing in a note on your desktop & you just copy paste it at every opportunity, right?

[crazy canuck]

You have that thing in a note on your desktop & you just copy paste it at every opportunity, right?

Thats a good idea.  It would save the google search next time.

[Grey Fox]

You have that thing in a note on your desktop & you just copy paste it at every opportunity, right?

Thats a good idea.  It would save the google search next time.

Glad to help. Can I get a company mug for my troubles?

[merithyn]

Yeah, that is why regular people need to retain lawyers to get them out of the messes those said regular people got themselves into in the first place.

A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don't know where I am."

The man below says, "I'm happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."

After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: "You must be a lawyer."

"I am" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responds, "Indeed. And you ... You must be a client."

"Why, yes, I am," replies the balloonist, "how in the world did you know?"

"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."

That's a stupid annecdote. The guy isn't blaming the lawyer; he's just saying that the information provided wasn't helpful. Not only that, but the guy made the promise knowing how to keep it when he made it, but asking for advice once things went left (possibly literally). Instead of offering useful help, the lawyer talked around him and over his head, and treated him like an idiot for choosing a different path.

[garbon]

That's a stupid annecdote. The guy isn't blaming the lawyer; he's just saying that the information provided wasn't helpful. Not only that, but the guy made the promise knowing how to keep it when he made it, but asking for advice once things went left (possibly literally). Instead of offering useful help, the lawyer talked around him and over his head, and treated him like an idiot for choosing a different path.

It might also be why a google search reveals the words "client" and "lawyer" are changed out for any amount of terms (like "manager" and "engineer" or "consultant") as it is just used to make whomever is using the anecdote feel good about themselves.

[mongers]

Yeah, that is why regular people need to retain lawyers to get them out of the messes those said regular people got themselves into in the first place.

A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don't know where I am."

The man below says, "I'm happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."

After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: "You must be a lawyer."

"I am" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responds, "Indeed. And you ... You must be a client."

"Why, yes, I am," replies the balloonist, "how in the world did you know?"

"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."

That's a stupid annecdote. The guy isn't blaming the lawyer; he's just saying that the information provided wasn't helpful. Not only that, but the guy made the promise knowing how to keep it when he made it, but asking for advice once things went left (possibly literally). Instead of offering useful help, the lawyer talked around him and over his head, and treated him like an idiot for choosing a different path.

I guess the balloonist is a fault as he interrupted the lawyer's train of thought (going around thinking how clever he was), so he had no option but to be condescending. 

The analogy would have been better, if the lawyer had asked the man to drop a line to the ground, the lawyer then pulls on the rope till balloon is grounded, they swap positions and lawyer then ascends to balloons previous position.

Now he has the man's only remaining substantial asset, is now his only means of escape and can now really look down upon him. 

[crazy canuck]

Yeah, that is why regular people need to retain lawyers to get them out of the messes those said regular people got themselves into in the first place.

A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realizes he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don't know where I am."

The man below says, "I'm happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude."

After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: "You must be a lawyer."

"I am" replies the man. "How did you know?"

"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost."

The man below responds, "Indeed. And you ... You must be a client."

"Why, yes, I am," replies the balloonist, "how in the world did you know?"

"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault."

That's a stupid annecdote. The guy isn't blaming the lawyer; he's just saying that the information provided wasn't helpful. Not only that, but the guy made the promise knowing how to keep it when he made it, but asking for advice once things went left (possibly literally). Instead of offering useful help, the lawyer talked around him and over his head, and treated him like an idiot for choosing a different path.

Yeah, you are a typical client.  and the fact is I am still lost - Tell me again whos fault that is?

[garbon]

Yeah, you are a typical client.  and the fact is I am still lost - Tell me again whos fault that is?

I don't think the balloonist said it was the lawyer's fault just that the lawyer's assistance was completely useless.

[merithyn]

Yeah, you are a typical client.  and the fact is I am still lost - Tell me again whos fault that is?

That's not an assignation of blame, but rather a statement of fact. If he's assigning blame, it's to the uselessness of the lawyer's "help", not to his particular situation.

[Admiral Yi]

But what you could do is take your 401k contributions in cash and then invest the said cash in the time and place that best suites you.  That is generally how our equivalent works.

I didn't know the answer so I had to ask around.  Apparently you could pile up a balance in a money market fund (paying 1 X 10 -23 power interest currrently), liquidate it and buy into one of the other funds offered in the 401k, but not into the entire universe of investible assets in the world.  If you can do that in the Canadian system your system is much better than ours.

Agree with the emerging consensus that the lawyer in the balloonist story is a dickhead.

[Malthus]

Well the retired people I see doing it have been landlords before and know what they are doing.  They now have the time to focus on it and it is what they know.

But doing this was not their first choice, they are doing it because of the low interest rates which ruined their plans at least in the short term.  I was just using that as an example not general advice for everybody.

Don't confuse the lawyers with the idea that "regular people" actually know how to run a business, Valmy.

I have no idea why the relatively simple notion that businesses carry risks and this is a business with more risk than most retirees who are looking at it as being relatively safe know about, as I've seen myself from frantic requests for legal advice should cause such huffing. Naturally, lawyers are going to have a better notion of the downsides of such a business than non-lawyers - it is, after all, our trade to deal with such downsides.

[Valmy]

Buying individual stocks is a little different than 'investing in the stockmarket' in general and relying on its track record of longterm growth though isn't it?

You can buy ETFs that track passive indices; in fact, those are may of the most popular ETFs.
There is a small fee advantage for ETFs although for the better passive MFs like Vanguard it is a pretty small difference.

Well shows what I know.  Since I have had no money to invest recently (besides my pension contributions) my practical experience is rather limited

[Valmy]

I have no idea why the relatively simple notion that businesses carry risks and this is a business with more risk than most retirees who are looking at it as being relatively safe know about, as I've seen myself from frantic requests for legal advice should cause such huffing. Naturally, lawyers are going to have a better notion of the downsides of such a business than non-lawyers - it is, after all, our trade to deal with such downsides.

Anyway I did not mean to bring up any bad associations there Malthus I was just using it as an example of what some people have been forced to do with money being less able to make money right now.

[Malthus]

I have no idea why the relatively simple notion that businesses carry risks and this is a business with more risk than most retirees who are looking at it as being relatively safe know about, as I've seen myself from frantic requests for legal advice should cause such huffing. Naturally, lawyers are going to have a better notion of the downsides of such a business than non-lawyers - it is, after all, our trade to deal with such downsides.

Anyway I did not mean to bring up any bad associations there Malthus I was just using it as an example of what some people have been forced to do with money being less able to make money right now.

Personally, my retirement plan is to become a Walmart greeter. 

[Barrister]

I have no idea why the relatively simple notion that businesses carry risks and this is a business with more risk than most retirees who are looking at it as being relatively safe know about, as I've seen myself from frantic requests for legal advice should cause such huffing. Naturally, lawyers are going to have a better notion of the downsides of such a business than non-lawyers - it is, after all, our trade to deal with such downsides.

Anyway I did not mean to bring up any bad associations there Malthus I was just using it as an example of what some people have been forced to do with money being less able to make money right now.

My aunt is a doctor.  She owned the building her practice was in, which also has three apartments.  She recently closed her practice to take a government job, so is renting out the commercial space now as well.

It has been a source of continuing anguish for her, and then in turn for my dad and my other aunt.  Why she continues to own the building escapes me (although obviously it does bring in some extra money).

Maybe Meri has a perfect idea of how much work being a landlord can be.  I can't read her mind of course.  But I have my doubts.