Philosophy on life - do things really happen for a reason?

[Razgovory]

Good Job Meri, you managed to froth up the regular kooks.

[Valmy]

"Things happen for a reason" is probably one of the laziest and dumbest things that lazy and dumb "spiritual" people come up with.

What is the smart and energetic way to handle things?

[merithyn]

You are getting into magical thinking here. Things happen for real material reasons. There is not someone out there meant for you, things are not either meant to be or not meant to be they either are or the are no.

The only meaning in life is the meaning you make yourself and the only master plan is the one you make and implement yourself. Telling yourself that something isn't meant to be is a cop out and an excuse for not trying (or a way of avoiding dealing with your own inability to make that something happen).

Your theory works for the things that one has some control over. However, there are enough things that happen that people have no control over to make the second paragraph almost meaningless.

[Valmy]

I understand that it's meant to be so, but in fact, it never feels like that. It seems to me that believing that life just happens the way that it happens - no recriminations, punishments, or other malevalant cause - would be far more comforting.

Well then go with the latter thing.  It is not literally true that things happen for reason so no biggie.

[Valmy]

The only meaning in life is the meaning you make yourself and the only master plan is the one you make and implement yourself. Telling yourself that something isn't meant to be is a cop out and an excuse for not trying (or a way of avoiding dealing with your own inability to make that something happen).

Yep.  Though usually when people say the 'things happen for a reason' thing it is AFTER shit went down.  Like after you worked your ass off and you failed anyway.

[merithyn]

"Things happen for a reason" is probably one of the laziest and dumbest things that lazy and dumb "spiritual" people come up with.

Except that I've known strident atheists who have said similar things. The statement isn't limited to the religious or spiritual. On the other hand, I've also known deeply spiritual people who don't buy the whole "for a reason" thing, either.

It doesn't appear to be limited in either direction.

[Viking]

You are getting into magical thinking here. Things happen for real material reasons. There is not someone out there meant for you, things are not either meant to be or not meant to be they either are or the are no.

The only meaning in life is the meaning you make yourself and the only master plan is the one you make and implement yourself. Telling yourself that something isn't meant to be is a cop out and an excuse for not trying (or a way of avoiding dealing with your own inability to make that something happen).

Your theory works for the things that one has some control over. However, there are enough things that happen that people have no control over to make the second paragraph almost meaningless.

You sound like you cant see a difference between "shit that happens" and "why stuff happens". There are lots of things in your life that you have no control over, that car coming down the road when you want to cross for example. I have no control over it, what I do have control over is when I choose to cross the road and if I choose to look both ways before doing so.

The car's movements have no meaning or purpose other than the meaning and purpose imbued into it by the driver. The universe isn't telling you anything, the universe isn't a person with a mind or anything like that.

I don't have control over the car, but I do have control over if I get hit by it or not.

[Razgovory]

You are getting into magical thinking here. Things happen for real material reasons. There is not someone out there meant for you, things are not either meant to be or not meant to be they either are or the are no.

The only meaning in life is the meaning you make yourself and the only master plan is the one you make and implement yourself. Telling yourself that something isn't meant to be is a cop out and an excuse for not trying (or a way of avoiding dealing with your own inability to make that something happen).

Your theory works for the things that one has some control over. However, there are enough things that happen that people have no control over to make the second paragraph almost meaningless.

It's funny, most people think they have much more control over their life then they actually do.  In fact, people have little control over their lives, but convince themselves they do to keep sane.  Realization that you have little control is not comforting, it is in fact terrifying.

[CountDeMoney]

I don't have control over the car, but I do have control over if I get hit by it or not.

Keep thinking that, Mario Andretti.

[HVC]

People like answers and absolution. "There was nothing you could do, it was meant to be" provides both. It's as simple as that. You never hear "congrats on the raise, it was meant to be" because for the good stuff people believe they had a hand in it. So if you control the good you most control the bad, unless an unknown forced it so. Voila absolution.

And even when people invoke god for the good (ie athletes and artists) its for the help god provided. God didn't actually make the good thing happen, that was still the person.

In closing people are self-absorbed assholes

[Viking]

"Things happen for a reason" is probably one of the laziest and dumbest things that lazy and dumb "spiritual" people come up with.

Except that I've known strident atheists who have said similar things. The statement isn't limited to the religious or spiritual. On the other hand, I've also known deeply spiritual people who don't buy the whole "for a reason" thing, either.

It doesn't appear to be limited in either direction.

Though, when us strident atheists say that something happens for a reason that reason is usually stuff like gravity or economics or psychology not karma or the will of god.

[Valmy]

I don't have control over the car, but I do have control over if I get hit by it or not.

What if you are tied down in the middle of the road?

Anyway Meri knows the universe is not talking to her.

[HVC]

I don't have control over the car, but I do have control over if I get hit by it or not.

What if you are tied down in the middle of the road?

Anyway Meri knows the universe is not talking to her.

Just her body

[Valmy]

Though, when us strident atheists say that something happens for a reason that reason is usually stuff like gravity or economics or psychology not karma or the will of god.

It depresses me that Atheists believe in wacky pseudoscience like Psychology and Economics. 

[Viking]

Though, when us strident atheists say that something happens for a reason that reason is usually stuff like gravity or economics or psychology not karma or the will of god.

It depresses me that Atheists believe in wacky pseudoscience like Psychology and Economics.

I was going for three examples one where no person was involved, one where many people were involve and one where one person was involved. I agree, any system of explanation trying to explain human behavior can hardly be truly scientific. Unfortunately most things that happen that we think about are caused by other humans.

To put it bluntly Psychology and Economics don't have theories or laws (though they like to pretend they do) they just have lots of hypotheses and postulates.