Neanderthals eaten by Syt's ancestors?

[BuddhaRhubarb]

Well, ya think?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/may/17/neanderthals-cannibalism-anthropological-sciences-journal look here.

How Neanderthals met a grisly fate: devoured by humans

A fossil discovery bears marks of butchering similar to those made when cutting up a deer

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    * Robin McKie, science editor
    * The Observer, Sunday 17 May 2009
    * Article history

One of science's most puzzling mysteries - the disappearance of the Neanderthals - may have been solved. Modern humans ate them, says a leading fossil expert.

The controversial suggestion follows publication of a study in the Journal of Anthropological Sciences about a Neanderthal jawbone apparently butchered by modern humans. Now the leader of the research team says he believes the flesh had been eaten by humans, while its teeth may have been used to make a necklace.

Fernando Rozzi, of Paris's Centre National de la Récherche Scientifique, said the jawbone had probably been cut into to remove flesh, including the tongue. Crucially, the butchery was similar to that used by humans to cut up deer carcass in the early Stone Age. "Neanderthals met a violent end at our hands and in some cases we ate them," Rozzi said.

The idea will provoke considerable opposition from scientists who believe Neanderthals disappeared for reasons that did not involve violence. Neanderthals were a sturdy species who evolved in Europe 300,000 years ago, made complex stone tools and survived several ice ages before they disappeared 30,000 years ago - just as modern human beings arrived in Europe from Africa.

Some researchers believe Neanderthals may have failed to compete effectively with Homo sapiens for resources, or were more susceptible to the impact of climate change. But others believe our interactions were violent and terminal for the Neanderthals. According to Rozzi, the discovery at Les Rois in south-west France provides compelling support for that argument.

Previous excavations revealed bones that were thought to be exclusively human. But Rozzi's team re-examined them and found one they concluded was Neanderthal. Importantly, it was covered in cut marks similar to those left behind when flesh is stripped from deer and other animals using stone tools.

Rozzi believes the jawbone provides crucial evidence that humans attacked Neanderthals, and sometimes killed them, bringing back their bodies to caves to eat or to use their skulls or teeth as trophies. "For years, people have tried to hide away from the evidence of cannibalism, but I think we have to accept it took place," he added.

But not every team member agrees. "One set of cut marks does not make a complete case for cannibalism," said Francesco d'Errico, of the Institute of Prehistory in Bordeaux. It was also possible that the jawbone had been found by humans and its teeth used to make a necklace, he said.

"This is a very important investigation," said Professor Chris Stringer, of the Natural History Museum, London. "We do need more evidence, but this could indicate modern humans and Neanderthals were living in the same area of Europe at the same time, that they were interacting, and that some of these interactions may have been hostile.

"This does not prove we systematically eradicated the Neanderthals or that we regularly ate their flesh. But it does add to the evidence that competition from modern humans probably contributed to Neanderthal extinction."

I kinda buy it, though I don't actually think there is any one reason (until recent history and man's encroachment on all) historically for species dying out. Maybe they went as far as they could, given being fodder for sneaky old humans, and whatever other factors may have been at play.

But I'd put money ofn Human beings "helping" evolution along, as we've done in so many cases.

[jimmy olsen]

There's lots of evidence for cannibalism amongst both Neanderthals and modern man. This doesn't really mean much.

[HVC]

while its teeth may have been used to make a necklace

Another species falls to mans need for fashion. I blame the gays

[Ancient Demon]

I still don't really understand how a species as advanced and resourceful as the Neanderthals somehow couldn't avoid complete extermination. OK, so they're not as smart as humans, and could be outcompeted; nevertheless the world is a big place, I can't imagine how it could have got to the point where no Neanderthal community of any size could survive anywhere.

[HVC]

No matter how resourceful you are their are only a finite amount of resources. If something is better at getting those recources resources first (probably us) then you die out. Once we spread out far enough they were screwed. Either humas outcompeted them, bred them into extinction, or killed them all (eatting not necessary).

i think the killing one is more accurate. Humans are good at killing stuff. It's what we do. 

[DisturbedPervert]

i think the killing one is more accurate. Humans are good at killing stuff. It's what we do.

We're also good at fucking.

[HVC]

i think the killing one is more accurate. Humans are good at killing stuff. It's what we do.

We're also good at fucking.

Depends on whether humans and neanderthals could  cross breed. Or even if either species found the other ones attractive. I mean Brain aside how many of us would nail a bonobo?

[Syt]

Neanderthals eaten by Syt's ancestors?

[Jos Theelen]

I don't understand how one can claim that the early humans killed and eat them. Eating yes, but they could be scavengers.

[Slargos]

Lots of evidence suggests they survived and turned into desertdwelling arab camel herders.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

i think the killing one is more accurate. Humans are good at killing stuff. It's what we do.

We're also good at fucking.

Depends on whether humans and neanderthals could  cross breed. Or even if either species found the other ones attractive. I mean Brain aside how many of us would nail a bonobo?

neanderthals and humans are closer to each other than humans and bonobos  one looks like an ape, the other like a yokel. and as we all know, yokels fuck humans

we're probably dealing with multiple forms of pressure on the neanderthals that caused their extinction
Modern humans were smarter, capable of more abstract thought. There's a tech-gap between sapiens andneanderthalensis.
Sapiens was also present in far greater numbers. At least 10 times the population-density I've been told.
And we probably killed and ate some of them.
Some crossbreeding is possible but afaik, still unproven.

That said, I can already see the story here: look at us evil humans destroying neanderthalensis. Queu comparison to modern day events... 

[Pat]

There were most likely quite some cross-breeding between neanderthals and humans. People are known to fuck anything with a hole, including many of our four-legged friends, so why not something with two legs that is actually quite similar to us, narcissism of the small differences aside?

As for whether they would produce fertile offspring, I don't see any reason why not. Anyway as soon as we have mapped the neanderthal genome, which is in the making, we will simply compare their genome to ours and we will know if there are neanderthal genes among the humans who spread out of Africa. We will also know which human race contain the most neanderthal DNA - my bet is on the Slavs, based on appearance.

[BVN]

We will also know which human race contain the most neanderthal DNA - my bet is on the Slavs, based on appearance.

I'm not quite sure if you are serious or joking... 

[Josquius]

How many sets of Neanderthal bones have been found? A lot I think...and no butchering until now.

[KRonn]

It is interesting to wonder how/why Neanderthals died out. They were the tougher, larger, stronger species but with a less adaptable intelligence. Sapiens were more creative, probably allowing larger societies, adding to survivability and advanced their tech more easily. That all must have been the difference, and it could be argued that it was the deciding factor between the two branches of humans. I do wonder if Sapiens and Neanderthals were so different that they wouldn't intermingle, or if they did mingle then  the result was the less numerous Neanderthals dying out as a separate group?