Holiday sales slup - Mixed messages?

[Admiral Yi]

However it's coined, the result is the same: people are spending less.

So, given that, what affect will it have on the economic growth? Will this "trend" effect things seriously?

Sure.  Joan for example just won't shut up about how consumer deleveraging is affecting the economy and absolutely necessitates that the government run a deficit of Latin American proportions just to keep our heads above water.

[mongers]

My problem with consumerism is not that it leads to spending, but that it leads to pointless spending.  I'm sure people will always find some things to spend money on, and spending money on less pointless shit means spending more money on pointful shit.  And even if removal of consumerism will lead to less spending and thus economic contraction, does it have to be a bad thing?  If people have to work less because they don't have to fund worthless spending, I don't see a problem with that.  I think Americans could definitely use more leisure and less material gluttony.

In other words, it's conspicuous consumerism that is going by the wayside. The question is: how much of an affect is that (or will that) have on the economy? Enough that it will cause significant problems? If so, what are the options for rebuilding? Because like you, I think that, culturally, that's a good thing.

Yes, in part what you and DG are talking about is the reaction to consumerism for it's own sake, and actively thinking about ones own resources and what could in part replace, consumption as a long term economic motivator.
And of course it is a rather difficult circle to square, what with 70% of the economy being consumer spending.

[merithyn]

Yes, in part what you and DG are talking about is the reaction to consumerism for it's own sake, and actively thinking about ones own resources and what could in part replace, consumption as a long term economic motivator.
And of course it is a rather difficult circle to square, what with 70% of the economy being consumer spending.

So what are the options on the table? I'm tired of the pressure to spend more that's coming from economists and the government. What else can be done to fix this problem?

[mongers]

Yes, in part what you and DG are talking about is the reaction to consumerism for it's own sake, and actively thinking about ones own resources and what could in part replace, consumption as a long term economic motivator.
And of course it is a rather difficult circle to square, what with 70% of the economy being consumer spending.

So what are the options on the table? I'm tired of the pressure to spend more that's coming from economists and the government. What else can be done to fix this problem?

I think in part you've already articulated the 'answer' to the question DG posited, you and others tired of the conventional way things are done, just need to get on doing what you described, ways that suit you and make you happier.
Then in the round, if enough people do that, then aspects of the economy will change in response. It won't be a steady state but a gradual evolution. 

[KRonn]

So what are the options on the table? I'm tired of the pressure to spend more that's coming from economists and the government. What else can be done to fix this problem?

As for the economy and needing more spending to boost it, yeah, we are a consumer driven economy. I wonder though if we'll be fine spending less on the consumer side if the economy was in good shape? There must be much of the economy that is driven by other goods and services that aren't really consumer driven. Medical, financial, housing, heavy manufacturing for business use, and more.

[KRonn]

You don't frequent the same places that I do.

The Mommy-Network, as it's sometimes called, is all about saving over spending, spend time not money on your kids, live on less in smaller places, etc. As I said, part of it is the whole economic downturn, but it's really taking hold. There are dozens of websites that are all about how to pinch pennies but live better lives. It's a complete cultural turn-around from when my kids were little and everything was about buying bigger, better, and more. Now, there are articles titled, "If you're going to buy your child just three gifts for Christmas, what should they be?" and stuff like that. Birthday parties are no longer about having the most kids in the best playland.

Sure, there are still those who buy a lot, but in general, I'd say that the trend is going more toward living on less than on the Bigger, Better lifestyle of years past. If that's the case, then the economy isn't going to get better based on consumer spending. Nor is that going to be a good indicator on economic growth.

I saw an article recently that there's a huge surplus of millions of McMansions type homes, but a shortage and more demand for smaller homes.

I live in a Cape, six rooms, three bedrooms, cellar and glad that I don't have a larger house needing more to heat and cool it, costing more and using more resources unnecessarily.

[mongers]

Here you go Meri, the Sales in the UK, a one minute video worth watching:

Boxing Day sales: Bargain hunters queue at Selfridges
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20844912

The first guy appears to have no idea why he's queuing, just that he will be buying something, almost anything !

[mongers]

I saw an article recently that there's a huge surplus of millions of McMansions type homes, but a shortage and more demand for smaller homes.

I live in a Cape, six rooms, three bedrooms, cellar and glad that I don't have a larger house needing more to heat and cool it, costing more and using more resources unnecessarily.

Yeah it's a good point, Kronn, a lot of people have now reached the state that it's become a chore and time consuming just to look after everything they've already got, so why go still further into the already blotted 'bigger and better' camp.


What you already have is the equivalent of what the proper Victorian urban upper middle class had, you're just lacking the servants.   

[KRonn]

Hehe,  I guess the servants these days could be the appliances!      At least for lower classes like me   

[dps]

LINK

U.S. holiday sales growth slowed by more than half this year after gridlock in Washington soured consumers’ moods

Color me skeptical that any significant number of people spent less because of gridlock in Washington.

[KRonn]

Agreed on that dps.

[merithyn]

Color me skeptical that any significant number of people spent less because of gridlock in Washington.

Same. The downturn in spending has been coming for a long while, and it's starting to be considered "cool" to be frugal. This has nothing to do with anything going on right now and everything to do with a multi-year recession causing a change in focus and priorities.