Elementary school shooting gun control pissing contest

[derspiess]

Okay, what cards are your fellow conservatives leaving off the table?  What is their hidden agenda?

First of all I'm not comfortable with the term "hidden agenda", and I'll note again that it was Beeb's term.  But I'm sure there's a whole slew of conservative lawmakers' agenda items that they're saving for the right moment. 

Geez, you guys are so ready to pounce over anything I say in this thread that I could say the sky is blue and you'd flip out.

[derspiess]

I did.  I'm unclear exactly what you answer is.  Ball's in your court.

Then I'm sure you missed a post or two.  Not gonna encourage laziness on your part.

[The Minsky Moment]

I could say the sky is blue

Looks gray to me.
What kind of game you trying to play here?

[Razgovory]

I did.  I'm unclear exactly what you answer is.  Ball's in your court.

Then I'm sure you missed a post or two.  Not gonna encourage laziness on your part.

Can't read your mind Derspeiss.  You have stated positions but they are contradictory.  When asked, further you simply answer they aren't and that you have now answered my questions.  You goaded me, gunna back out now?

[crazy canuck]

I could say the sky is blue

Looks gray to me.

More of a dark white indicating a chance of snow.

[derspiess]

You goaded me, gunna back out now?

I think I will.  It's getting tiresome having to re-state things to you multiple times.

[Barrister]

Putting aside the Raz-spicey shadowboxing...

Spicey - so what do you think of the President's supposed proposals?  As I understand them, they are:

-tougher Assault Weapon ban
-limits to ammunition device size
-universal background checks
-better database for weapons sales
-"strengthen measures" to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill

I can tell you I'm definitely against the database for weapon sales.  Trust me on this - it won't work.

But an assault weapons ban, limit on device size, and background checks don't sound like bad ideas...

[garbon]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/15/new-york-assault-weapons-guns/1835785/

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a package of tougher gun measures Tuesday, soon after the state Assembly voted to bolster the state's ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

The Democrat-dominated Assembly passed the bill Tuesday by a 104-43 vote after the state Senate approved it by a wide margin late Monday.

The vote makes New York the first state to enact tighter restrictions on guns after the Dec. 14 massacre in Newtown, Conn.

"What we're saying today is some of these weapons is beyond what we believe to be reasonable for purchase for New Yorkers," said Assemblyman Brian Kavanagh, a Manhattan Democrat who chairs the state chapter of State Legislators Against Illegal Guns.

The gun-control package makes changes and additions to a broad swath of state law, ranging from requiring universal background checks for all gun and ammunition sales, boosting the state's power to confiscate firearms from the mentally ill and increasing penalties for gun-related crime.

The bill includes an immediate ban on semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and pistols with a "military-style feature," such as a flash suppressor or a bayonet mount. Guns that are currently legal but are soon to be banned would be grandfathered in, but their owners would have to register with the state.

Magazines would be limited to a maximum capacity of seven bullets, down from the current 10.

The legislation would also include the "Webster provision," a life-without-parole sentence for anyone found to have killed a first responder. The provision is a reference to the Christmas Eve shooting in the Monroe County town, where two firefighters were shot and killed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pols-target-apple-nra-game-article-1.1240475

Apple buckled under pressure from angry New York pols Tuesday and agreed to raise the age restriction on a violent new National Rifle Association shooting game from 4 to 12.
Sen. Chuck Schumer, who had been pushing to get the parental rating raised to age 17, called Apple's move "a step in the right direction."

"Apple did the right thing by acknowledging that this game isn't for young children, but should go farther and make the restrictions as tight as possible," said Schumer.

"The NRA has acted in an unbelievably hypocritical fashion by blaming the nation's gun violence on video games and movies, then coming out with a game - for children - featuring assault weapons. Apple should not facilitate children using it."

There was no immediate response from the NRA.

[derspiess]

Spicey - so what do you think of the President's supposed proposals?  As I understand them, they are:

-tougher Assault Weapon ban

Oppose.  From my cold dead hands & whatnot.  So they look scary-- deal with it.

-limits to ammunition device size

Oppose.  See above.  Doesn't take long to drop mag & reload in most cases anyway, so I don't really see the logic behind it.

-universal background checks

Oppose.  I should be able to dispose of my own property to someone within my state without having to transfer through a dealer.  That said, if this one sneaked through it wouldn't kill me.  When I sell something it's almost always on an auction site the buyer usually ends up being someone out of state-- I have to ship to a dealer (or Curio & Relic license-holder if it's a C&R-classified weapon). 

-better database for weapons sales

If this refers to the database used for background checks, I'm fine with it.  If it refers to gun registration, I think that was ruled unconstitutional.

-"strengthen measures" to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill

I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous crazies, so on the surface I can't say I oppose.  Would have to see details before I say for certain. 

[derspiess]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pols-target-apple-nra-game-article-1.1240475

Apple buckled under pressure from angry New York pols Tuesday and agreed to raise the age restriction on a violent new National Rifle Association shooting game from 4 to 12.
Sen. Chuck Schumer, who had been pushing to get the parental rating raised to age 17, called Apple's move "a step in the right direction."

"Apple did the right thing by acknowledging that this game isn't for young children, but should go farther and make the restrictions as tight as possible," said Schumer.

"The NRA has acted in an unbelievably hypocritical fashion by blaming the nation's gun violence on video games and movies, then coming out with a game - for children - featuring assault weapons. Apple should not facilitate children using it."

There was no immediate response from the NRA.

Shooting virtual paper targets = violence? 

[The Minsky Moment]

If it refers to gun registration, I think that was ruled unconstitutional.

They have been upheld by the DC Circuit and the 7th Circuit.  Don't know of any case that holds otherwise. 

[MadImmortalMan]

I'm concerned that Obama will ruin the coalition he built in popular support with the moderates out West joining up with the Democrats instead of the GOP and the South. This is exactly the issue that could break that up and drive those people back into the arms of Dixie. And is it worth the risk? How likely is it that some lasting laws will come of this that are not either ineffective or temporary? IMO it's risking a lot for very little potential gain.

[crazy canuck]

A second term president can to what is right rather than worry about re-election

[Ed Anger]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pols-target-apple-nra-game-article-1.1240475

Apple buckled under pressure from angry New York pols Tuesday and agreed to raise the age restriction on a violent new National Rifle Association shooting game from 4 to 12.
Sen. Chuck Schumer, who had been pushing to get the parental rating raised to age 17, called Apple's move "a step in the right direction."

"Apple did the right thing by acknowledging that this game isn't for young children, but should go farther and make the restrictions as tight as possible," said Schumer.

"The NRA has acted in an unbelievably hypocritical fashion by blaming the nation's gun violence on video games and movies, then coming out with a game - for children - featuring assault weapons. Apple should not facilitate children using it."

There was no immediate response from the NRA.

Shooting virtual paper targets = violence? 

The slaughter of Daisy paper targets over the decades is a war crime.

[DGuller]

A second term president can to what is right rather than worry about re-election

We don't just have a president.  We also have Congress and state governments.  If we have another backlash-fueled GOP sweep of state governments, we'll see the introduction of Jim Crow II laws in many places.