Elementary school shooting gun control pissing contest

[11B4V]

Ok makes sense now.  I'm not sure why that sentence confused me when I first read it; I understood all of the words individually but together they looked like a foreign language to me. 

You have to forgive me sometimes. I'm only the second generation standing upright. 

[derspiess]

However, gun shows are unregulated here, and are a constant occurrence. I can go to a gun show today and buy a gun and not even have to get the background check.

Point of clarification here.  While that's technically true, if you buy a gun from a licensed dealer at a gun show (which constitute a majority of sellers at gun shows) you will have to go through the background check.  Some shows even prohibit non-dealers from selling guns at tables.  A majority of sales at most gun shows are through licensed dealers.

You can of course legally buy a gun from an individual (i.e., non-dealer) without going through background checks, but that's something you can do anywhere (as long as both individuals reside in the same state).  The fact that this sometimes takes place at a gun show is incidental.

IMO there is no gun show "loophole" as many seem to think.

[Grey Fox]

That this thread is twice as long as the one it spawned from tells you something about human nature right there.

The other thread is about being sad. I am not sad, I am angry.

Actually, I'm a sad I have trouble reading the articles about the dead children without bursting into tears but it's not a reason to dwell on it. Discussion needs to happen.

[11B4V]

However, gun shows are unregulated here, and are a constant occurrence. I can go to a gun show today and buy a gun and not even have to get the background check.

Point of clarification here.  While that's technically true, if you buy a gun from a licensed dealer at a gun show (which constitute a majority of sellers at gun shows) you will have to go through the background check.  Some shows even prohibit non-dealers from selling guns at tables.  A majority of sales at most gun shows are through licensed dealers.

You can of course legally buy a gun from an individual (i.e., non-dealer) without going through background checks, but that's something you can do anywhere (as long as both individuals reside in the same state).  The fact that this sometimes takes place at a gun show is incidental.

IMO there is no gun show "loophole" as many seem to think.

As a private seller with a table, I can sell to another person at a gun show. No Background check required.

[11B4V]

Here is what should happen.

I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?
Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.
For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of$10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.

Though commonly referred to as the "Gun Show Loophole," the "private sales" described include guns sold at gun shows, through classified newspaper ads, the Internet, and between individuals virtually anywhere.

[dps]

Cash for firearm turn in or tax deduction.

Agreed.  It won't get guns from the "gun nuts"* but those guns that would be turned by these programs are the more likely to be stolen and/or sold to undesirables, IMO.

No, the guns most likely to get turned in are muskets used by somebody's 5 times-great-granddaddy in the Civil War.

[CountDeMoney]

However, gun shows are unregulated here, and are a constant occurrence. I can go to a gun show today and buy a gun and not even have to get the background check.

Point of clarification here.  While that's technically true, if you buy a gun from a licensed dealer at a gun show (which constitute a majority of sellers at gun shows) you will have to go through the background check. Some shows even prohibit non-dealers from selling guns at tables. A majority of sales at most gun shows are through licensed dealers.

You can of course legally buy a gun from an individual (i.e., non-dealer) without going through background checks, but that's something you can do anywhere (as long as both individuals reside in the same state).  The fact that this sometimes takes place at a gun show is incidental.

IMO there is no gun show "loophole" as many seem to think.

I pointedly clarified your points of clarification, where you validate Otto's statement.

[11B4V]

Cash for firearm turn in or tax deduction.

Agreed.  It won't get guns from the "gun nuts"* but those guns that would be turned by these programs are the more likely to be stolen and/or sold to undesirables, IMO.

No, the guns most likely to get turned in are muskets used by somebody's 5 times-great-granddaddy in the Civil War.

Disagree

[Maximus]

Gun buybacks aren't exactly a new thing. They're just not that effective as long as they're being replaced by new guns.

[CountDeMoney]

No, the guns most likely to get turned in are muskets used by somebody's 5 times-great-granddaddy in the Civil War.

Disagree

BPD would get lots of rifles and very few operable handguns from their buybacks. And out of the handguns, there were always a ton of shitty old .38 long barrels dating from the 1940s, never very many nice semi-autos and modern pieces.
And we all know gangbangers love to use bolt action rifles.

[11B4V]

No, the guns most likely to get turned in are muskets used by somebody's 5 times-great-granddaddy in the Civil War.

Disagree

BPD would get lots of rifles and very few operable handguns from their buybacks. And out of the handguns, there were always a ton of shitty old .38 long barrels dating from the 1940s, never very many nice semi-autos and modern pieces.
And we all know gangbangers love to use bolt action rifles.

Ah, then there should be too many left for this go around. 

[derspiess]

As a private seller with a table, I can sell to another person at a gun show. No Background check required.

Assuming the gun show organizers allow it, you sure can.  I didn't say you couldn't.  But you can sell to another person outside of gun shows.  There's nothing really special about you being able to do that at that specific venue.  I can understand (though still disagree with) the argument to restrict private sales but specifically going after gun shows seems silly.

[11B4V]

And you don't stop a lone gunman.

How many active shooters have been neutralized by a citizen with a CCW? I dont know. Funny how a CCW carrying citizen is never around at active shootings. Guess thereare not as many as people say.

Portland Mall Shooting

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html

[CountDeMoney]

As a private seller with a table, I can sell to another person at a gun show. No Background check required.

Assuming the gun show organizers allow it, you sure can.  I didn't say you couldn't.  But you can sell to another person outside of gun shows.  There's nothing really special about you being able to do that at that specific venue.  I can understand (though still disagree with) the argument to restrict private sales but specifically going after gun shows seems silly.

There is a substantial difference between a private sale between you and I, and someone who knows they'd fail a background check going to a gun show with an exhibition hall full of non-FFL dealers as a one-stop shop to purchase firearms knowing they wouldn't get a background check.  That's what closing the loophole is all about, reducing the opportunity for those who shouldn't get guns from getting them easier.

To say that shutting down the gun show issue wouldn't stop someone from getting a gun is akin to 11B's "You can kill somebody with macrame needles and an ironing board, too" logic.  It's bullshit.

[11B4V]

As a private seller with a table, I can sell to another person at a gun show. No Background check required.

Assuming the gun show organizers allow it, you sure can.  I didn't say you couldn't.  But you can sell to another person outside of gun shows.  There's nothing really special about you being able to do that at that specific venue.  I can understand (though still disagree with) the argument to restrict private sales but specifically going after gun shows seems silly.

There is a substantial difference between a private sale between you and I, and someone who knows they'd fail a background check going to a gun show with an exhibition hall full of non-FFL dealers as a one-stop shop to purchase firearms knowing they wouldn't get a background check.  That's what closing the loophole is all about, reducing the opportunity for those who shouldn't get guns from getting them easier.

To say that shutting down the gun show issue wouldn't stop someone from getting a gun is akin to 11B's "You can kill somebody with macrame needles and an ironing board, too" logic.  It's bullshit.

HEY, INEVER SAID THAT.