Walmart Workers Threaten to Strike on Black Friday

[Zanza]

My impression is that the people who benefit the most from high labor standards here are those that often change jobs/careers, don't have a formal education fitting their job or work part time/irregularly. I also had the impression from this board that Meri is one of these, so it is a bit surprising to see her defending the system.

[merithyn]

My impression is that the people who benefit the most from high labor standards here are those that often change jobs/careers, don't have a formal education fitting their job or work part time/irregularly. I also had the impression from this board that Meri is one of these, so it is a bit surprising to see her defending the system.

Why? I dislike legislation for the sake of legislation, especially when the market can sort this kind of thing out for itself. It's a factor right now because the economy is weak and jobs are scarce, but will it continue to be one once things turn around? They weren't so much before, so it seems odd to think that they will be later.

[derspiess]

  There's hope for you yet, Meri.

[Valmy]

Why? I dislike legislation for the sake of legislation, especially when the market can sort this kind of thing out for itself. It's a factor right now because the economy is weak and jobs are scarce, but will it continue to be one once things turn around? They weren't so much before, so it seems odd to think that they will be later.

Even in a strong economy it is not exactly a great one for workers.  Even alot of services can be outsourced to India and China.  It will take awhile for globalization to run its course and the market to be a good one for working people again.  But passing laws to give American Workers benefits will only make the situation worse, not better.

[Zanza]

It's not legislation for the sake of legislation, but rather for the sake of policy. The point of politics is to set policy frameworks on how we want our society to be. It's legitimate to say that you want everything regulated by the free market. It's also surprising to me. I would have expected more support for employee friendly policies. But I guess that is a big difference between the USA and the rest of the Western world. 

And I don't think there is or ever will be scarcity regarding people able and willing to work at Walmart. Just about everybody is able to and with employment being at historical lows and trending down it is unlikely that America will run out of employable people anytime soon.

In general my impression is that the "lower" half of the job market has very little bargaining power and will hardly reach anything individually, meaning the market works but not to their advantage.

[Zanza]

Even in a strong economy it is not exactly a great one for workers.  Even alot of services can be outsourced to India and China.  It will take awhile for globalization to run its course and the market to be a good one for working people again.  But passing laws to give American Workers benefits will only make the situation worse, not better.

How do you outsource a Walmart job to China? 

[merithyn]

I just don't see how legislating things like holiday pay or holidays off work will help the situation. It's such a small thing compared to the myriad of other issues that need to be addressed.

You want to make these workers' lives better? Raise the minimum wage to something that people can actually survive on. Require affordable insurance (affordable being the key word). That's where I would start passing laws.

Pick your battles, Zanza. You gotta' pick your battles.

[Valmy]

How do you outsource a Walmart job to China? 

You don't.  But not every service industry job is retail.

[Zanza]

I know. I work with near- and offshore outsourcing services every day, but my impression is that a lot of these jobs require some qualifications and while it is often cheaper to get these services from abroad, it's only because the local employees do have bargaining power and are scarce. The really badly qualified people, those that work e.g. in retail or logistics or so can't really be off-shored, but they also don't have bargaining power. The reason we source software engineers from India is because we have to pay 1000 Euro per day for a German. And he will not even consider to work on public holidays and just tell us to fuck off. The guy driving a forklift in the warehouse on the other hand...

[Neil]

Why? I dislike legislation for the sake of legislation, especially when the market can sort this kind of thing out for itself.

Like female CEOs?  LULZ

[merithyn]

Why? I dislike legislation for the sake of legislation, especially when the market can sort this kind of thing out for itself.

Like female CEOs?  LULZ

Care to point out where I have ever said that female CEOs should be legislated?

[Neil]

Why? I dislike legislation for the sake of legislation, especially when the market can sort this kind of thing out for itself.

Like female CEOs?  LULZ

Care to point out where I have ever said that female CEOs should be legislated?

Weren't you praising the Swedish model?  Isn't that what they've done, or is that just board members.  Either way, you're a traitor.

[crazy canuck]

Why? I dislike legislation for the sake of legislation, especially when the market can sort this kind of thing out for itself.

How much cool aid do they make you drink down there anyway?

[Martinus]

I just don't see how legislating things like holiday pay or holidays off work will help the situation. It's such a small thing compared to the myriad of other issues that need to be addressed.

You want to make these workers' lives better? Raise the minimum wage to something that people can actually survive on. Require affordable insurance (affordable being the key word). That's where I would start passing laws.

Pick your battles, Zanza. You gotta' pick your battles.

I think this is less about picking this battle here and now and more about a surprise about the state of affairs in the US, considering such battles have been picked and won decades ago in virtually every other Western country in the world.

If Saudi Arabia had some backward but relatively harmless law on the books right now, I'd tell the Saudi liberals to pick their battles and perhaps focus on something else - but I would be surprised to find such laws in force in, say, France.

[merithyn]

I think this is less about picking this battle here and now and more about a surprise about the state of affairs in the US, considering such battles have been picked and won decades ago in virtually every other Western country in the world.

If Saudi Arabia had some backward but relatively harmless law on the books right now, I'd tell the Saudi liberals to pick their battles and perhaps focus on something else - but I would be surprised to find such laws in force in, say, France.

I thought it was well-known that the US is way behind the European model when it came to workers' benefits/perks/rights due to our almost pathological view of the free market.