Opinion debate: When is a cyberattack an act of war?

Started by CountDeMoney, October 28, 2012, 07:14:36 PM

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mongers

Quote from: chipwich on October 28, 2012, 10:41:49 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2012, 07:14:36 PM

He warned of a "cyber Pearl Harbor," evoking one of the most tragic moments in American history, when Japanese bombers unleashed a devastating surprise attack on a U.S. naval base in Hawaii on Dec. 7, 1941, killing 2,402 Americans and wounding 1,282 more. President Franklin D. Roosevelt called it "a date which will live in infamy" as he asked Congress for a declaration of war.


I want to punch the author for writing this.

You should call him a name on twitter, that could prove devastating to his sense of well being.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

dps

War is politics by other means.  If the motivation is political, as opposed to economic, or just being done for shits and giggles, then it's an act of war.

Brazen

A cyber attack is an act of war when it can be reliably identified as state sponsored and used against enemy state targets to disrupt everyday life, whether used against military, industry or infrastructure targets. Though perhaps act of terrorism would be a better definition.

Same as physical war - there are plenty of military conflicts out there, but they are euphemistically named uprisings, rebellions and coups etc. until the state declares and interest in sending in the military. Or until Western/UN/first world governments recognise it as such, if you want to be cynical.

We are in the process of producing an industry report on cyber warfare and every government and manufacturer would be happy for you to believe they only carry out cyber defence and it's just the bad guys who develop cyber weapons and carry out hacking :lol:

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Brazen on October 29, 2012, 05:28:30 AM
We are in the process of producing an industry report on cyber warfare and every government and manufacturer would be happy for you to believe they only carry out cyber defence and it's just the bad guys who develop cyber weapons and carry out hacking :lol:

As long as lawyers walk the earth. that's the way it's going to be.

Razgovory

Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 28, 2012, 10:21:08 PM
When they cause something like a serious blackout or people actually die. That's when everyone will get up in arms.

You know, you are probably right.  One of these days, some hacker is going to do something that gets someone killed.  The back lash from that will be great.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017


Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

crazy canuck

Quote from: Razgovory on October 29, 2012, 07:31:10 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 29, 2012, 06:02:25 PM
When it interferes with my life.

What, you never got a computer virus.

I dont think so. But if I did it should be considered an act of war.

derspiess

Quote from: Brazen on October 29, 2012, 05:28:30 AM
A cyber attack is an act of war when it can be reliably identified as state sponsored and used against enemy state targets to disrupt everyday life, whether used against military, industry or infrastructure targets. Though perhaps act of terrorism would be a better definition.

This.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

crazy canuck

Quote from: derspiess on October 30, 2012, 02:55:28 PM
Quote from: Brazen on October 29, 2012, 05:28:30 AM
A cyber attack is an act of war when it can be reliably identified as state sponsored and used against enemy state targets to disrupt everyday life, whether used against military, industry or infrastructure targets. Though perhaps act of terrorism would be a better definition.

This.

Dove

Sheilbh

I agree with DS and Brazen.  It looks a lot like espionage to me (rather than state-sponsored terrorism).  The attack that would cause a military response would probably be a catalyst/alibi and have to be really very significant.  Aside from that it's simply another tool available to every state for politics by other means.
Let's bomb Russia!