Lawmakers weigh new rules for NYPD street stops

[garbon]

http://news.yahoo.com/lawmakers-weigh-rules-nypd-street-stops-233815090.html

New York City police stops of hundreds of thousands of people each year are in the spotlight as city lawmakers consider setting new rules for the stop-and-frisk practice and even appointing an inspector general to monitor the police department.

It is too soon to say what laws, if any, will result from City Council hearings on the proposals, beginning Wednesday.

But after years of complaints that the practice discriminates against minorities, the hearings signal the public debate has gotten loud enough that lawmakers, not to mention candidates in next year's mayoral election, feel they have to be heard.

The controversy is playing out amid the contest to succeed term-limited Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has defended the practice. All the likely top contenders have made a point of saying they are concerned about stop-and-frisks, including Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who has near-total control over which efforts get to a council vote.

Quinn said at an unrelated news conference Tuesday that she wants "ongoing reform" of stop-and-frisks but hasn't decided whether to support any of the proposals.

Besides creating an inspector general's post, the measures would require officers to explain why they are stopping people, tell them when they have a right to refuse a search, and hand out business cards identifying themselves. Another proposal would give people more latitude to sue over stops they considered biased.

In stop-and-frisks, officers approach, question and sometimes pat down people police say were behaving suspiciously — acting like a lookout or carrying a pry bar, for example — but weren't necessarily sought in any particular crime.

The stops became an integral part of the city's law enforcement in the mid-1990s, but the numbers have risen since Bloomberg took office in 2002. Officers made a record 684,330 of the stops last year, seven times the number in 2002. They stopped about 337,000 in the first six months of this year.

Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly credit the practice with deterring violence and helping drive down New York's crime rate to the lowest among the country's 25 most populous cities, as measured by the FBI.

"The last thing we need is to have some politician or judge getting involved with setting policy," Bloomberg said at an unrelated news conference Monday. "Because you won't be safe anymore. Today you are."

But stop-and-frisk critics point to other statistics: Some 87 percent of those stopped last year involved blacks or Hispanics, and about 12 percent of the stops resulted in arrests or tickets. Opponents say the figures add up to racial profiling that does little for public safety.

"We all want a safe city ... but discriminatory policing has grown significantly in recent years. I don't believe it actually makes us safer because it frays the bond of trust between police and the community," said Councilman Brad Lander, a lead sponsor of the inspector general proposal.

[Faeelin]

It's a great idea. We should just start frisking people in the West Village and Chelsea too. Although I'm sure we wouldn't find drugs on those people.

[garbon]

My 2 block radius was in the news last week twice for a woman who was run over by a semi and dragged about a block - and then a young drunk woman who was approached by a man who offered to help her to her apt. Once there, he proceeded to rape her. Seemed oddly reminiscent of that cop case we had recently.

To your point - I'm actually not unconvinced that such does happen at times. At least West Village/Greenwich Village seem to see a large uptake in black people in the evening Wednesday-Saturday.

[Faeelin]

To your point - I'm actually not unconvinced that such does happen at times. At least West Village/Greenwich Village seem to see a large uptake in black people in the evening Wednesday-Saturday.

I'm not sure the situation is improved if cops will stop and frisk black people wherever they are. My point is that more generally I have never heard of a white person being frisked. While I'm sure it happens, this is pretty clearly targeted towards blacks and hispanics to make white New Yorkers feel safe.

[garbon]

To your point - I'm actually not unconvinced that such does happen at times. At least West Village/Greenwich Village seem to see a large uptake in black people in the evening Wednesday-Saturday.

I'm not sure the situation is improved if cops will stop and frisk black people wherever they are. My point is that more generally I have never heard of a white person being frisked.

I posted this article as I thought it was good that they are looking at revising this policy.  Not that I want black people stopped wherever they are!

[CountDeMoney]

I'm not sure the situation is improved if cops will stop and frisk black people wherever they are. My point is that more generally I have never heard of a white person being frisked. While I'm sure it happens, this is pretty clearly targeted towards blacks and hispanics to make white New Yorkers feel safe.

Where blacks and hispanics are "targeted", there are very few white New Yorkers.   It's not like Pookie and Juan are being shaken down on their way to work outside Grand Central Station:  it's happening where the high points of crime, violence and the drug trade are prevalent.  You follow the tells, the giveaways, and watch for hand-to-hand transactions that you would never catch if you don't know what to look for.

And what the statisticheads don't realize is that while not every stop-and-frisk will result in an arrest, it can result in information, a conversation you wouldn't normally or couldn't normally have otherwise, and it can even save a life.  Sometimes the best payoff from a stop-and-frisk is that it's seen by others--and not just to assuage civilian sensibilities.

Before they invented the term "profiling", it used to just be called "good police work".  Because people don't fucking know what's involved in police work on the street.

[Valmy]

The Police in NYC have done amazing work.  The City is safer now than...um....maybe we have to go back to the 19th century.  They have achieved things nobody in the 1980s would have thought possible.  Hopefully some sort of arrangement can be made that addresses the complaints without hindering the cops in their work too much because they clearly have one of the top Police Forces in the country.

[Syt]

The downside is that we don't get movies/shows like The Warriors or The Equalizer anymore. Even Cagney & Lacey is gritty by comparison.