14-year old Pakistani girl activist shot by Taliban

[merithyn]

What are we going to do, invade and occupy Pakistan?

I'm suggesting that we wipe the Taliban out in Afghanistan and then sanction the hell out of Pakistan until they do the same.

[Valmy]

I just don't get why so few people are even talking about this as a major issue. How can women, especially, just ignore that this is happening?

It's complicated.

Left wing folks who normally would be outraged by this sort of thing are hesitant to attack third worlders and Muslims in particular too much because they are worried about Imperialism and forcing Western Values on local cultures...also enhancing Islamophobia.

Meanwhile the Right just sorta places this along with a whole list of really really bad things Muslims and Third Worlders do.

And frankly it is something that is almost impossible to do much about which limits people really getting worked up of any ideology.

[mongers]

Then I'll repeat what I said: Women's issues are not a major foreign policy concern for the United States.

We don't fight wars against Islam, remember?

I just don't get why so few people are even talking about this as a major issue. How can women, especially, just ignore that this is happening?

I'm the last person to say that we should go to war, but this is no less imperative, in my mind, than fighting the Nazis. The Taliban are looking to enslave half the population and murder those (men and women) who speak out about it. I'm struggling to see how this is different.

As a rule, I don't discuss this here because I just can't stand the idea of it being mocked, but this is one of the very few items on my "No Compromise" list. There can be no compromise when it comes to the Taliban. It's not just women, it's anyone who chooses to think for themselves. The Taliban need to be destroyed, and I'm pretty comfortable saying, "Send in the troops."

(Mind you, my son is planning to join the military so I could be sending my own son to his death by advocating this. That makes me sick to my stomach to think of it, but at least he would be dying for something worthwhile.)

Because it all runs counter to the 'Saudis are our special ally in the Arab world' gig; excuse my language, but most of this shit, originates in and is finance by the Saudi princes, whether it be funding for the madrasas in Pakistan where these, brainwashed thugs with AK47s are 'educated' or sick propaganda that finds its way into UK religious schools that few if any here are willing to challenge.

It's origins go back to the close links forged between the Pakistani military when the provided a couple of divisions deployed to Saudi in the late 70s; ever since the Pakistani establishment has been seduced and still further corrupted by Arabian oil dollars.

[Valmy]

Well and there is the Saudis and their ideology backed by Oil dollars.  See?  Its complicated.

[Richard Hakluyt]

These people have a different culture, a culture that is deeply offensive to us.

I'm afraid that murdering them will do no good and colonial empires have been out of fashion for some time.

[DGuller]

What are we going to do, invade and occupy Pakistan?

I'm suggesting that we wipe the Taliban out in Afghanistan and then sanction the hell out of Pakistan until they do the same.

I'm not sure how effective sanctioning a government that can't keep flies away from itself is.

[Tonitrus]

The problem with fighting and having troops in Afghanistan for the purpose of advancing the rights and education of women, is that that is the kind of struggle that would require us to completely dominate the country and run it ourselves.  Not of this Hamid Karzai, Loya Jurga "build domestic democracy" bullshit.  But total, post-WW2 Germany/Japan "ram democracy down your throat" control and pacification.  Most likely for at least a few generations.

I am not necessarily opposed to that...but I am quite sure we haven't had the the political stomach for that for quite some time.

[mongers]

Well and there is the Saudis and their ideology backed by Oil dollars.  See?  Its complicated.

Yeah, I'm not pointing the finger exclusively at the US, most countries feel they benefit from the status quo in Arabia, even if it means turning a blind eye to the origins of 15 young men.   

[Admiral Yi]

The problem with fighting and having troops in Afghanistan for the purpose of advancing the rights and education of women, is that that is the kind of struggle that would require us to completely dominate the country and run it ourselves.  Not of this Hamid Karzai, Loya Jurga "build domestic democracy" bullshit.  But total, post-WW2 Germany/Japan "ram democracy down your throat" control and pacification.  Most likely for at least a few generations.

I am not necessarily opposed to that...but I am quite sure we haven't had the the political stomach for that for quite some time.

Much harder than in Germany and Japan.  Those countries had institutionalized acceptance of the legitimacy of the central government, and central governments who knew they were beaten and therefore had to comply.

It would be like Germany if every German in 45 were a Werewolf nut case.

[Tonitrus]

The problem with fighting and having troops in Afghanistan for the purpose of advancing the rights and education of women, is that that is the kind of struggle that would require us to completely dominate the country and run it ourselves.  Not of this Hamid Karzai, Loya Jurga "build domestic democracy" bullshit.  But total, post-WW2 Germany/Japan "ram democracy down your throat" control and pacification.  Most likely for at least a few generations.

I am not necessarily opposed to that...but I am quite sure we haven't had the the political stomach for that for quite some time.

Much harder than in Germany and Japan.  Those countries had institutionalized acceptance of the legitimacy of the central government, and central governments who knew they were beaten and therefore had to comply.

It would be like Germany if every German in 45 were a Werewolf nut case.

I also left out the "firebomb their major cities until they know they've been defeated" part.  But yeah, much harder than Germany/Japan, but as I said...essentially the same model, and on a much longer timescale (40-60 years verses 10 or so).

[dps]

The problem with fighting and having troops in Afghanistan for the purpose of advancing the rights and education of women, is that that is the kind of struggle that would require us to completely dominate the country and run it ourselves.  Not of this Hamid Karzai, Loya Jurga "build domestic democracy" bullshit.  But total, post-WW2 Germany/Japan "ram democracy down your throat" control and pacification.  Most likely for at least a few generations.

I am not necessarily opposed to that...but I am quite sure we haven't had the the political stomach for that for quite some time.

Much harder than in Germany and Japan.  Those countries had institutionalized acceptance of the legitimacy of the central government, and central governments who knew they were beaten and therefore had to comply.

It would be like Germany if every German in 45 were a Werewolf nut case.

I also left out the "firebomb their major cities until they know they've been defeated" part.  But yeah, much harder than Germany/Japan, but as I said...essentially the same model, and on a much longer timescale (40-60 years verses 10 or so).

Which plan was what we need to do in both Iraq and Afghanistan starting in 2003.  Heck, part of the reason that I supported the invasions of both countries was because that's what I thought we were going to do.

[Tonitrus]

The other big complicating difference, when comparing Iraq/Afghanistan with Germany/Japan, is that both Iraq and Afghanistan are basically surrounded on all sides by enemies and with long, porous borders.  It'd be hard to turn them into something that is essentially completely counter to all their backwards neighbors.

[Queequeg]

What are we going to do, invade and occupy Pakistan?

I'm suggesting that we wipe the Taliban out in Afghanistan and then sanction the hell out of Pakistan until they do the same.

I actually largely agree with this, but I think from there we'd have to move on sanctioning half the Arab world.  Which I really hope we do after this whole Oil business blows over.

[derspiess]

So Meri's a neocon, huh?  Interesting.

[Neil]

I also left out the "firebomb their major cities until they know they've been defeated" part.  But yeah, much harder than Germany/Japan, but as I said...essentially the same model, and on a much longer timescale (40-60 years verses 10 or so).

Why would these guys care if their major cities were firebombed?  Cities are hated because they corrupt the pure, Dark Ages spirit of the Afghan.

No, the Air Force can't win this kind of fight.  It's exactly the sort of fight that the Air Force has been losing ever since it was created.  The only way to win this sort of fight is to have the Army advance, shipping the people away to special camps, and then the Einsatzgruppen clean up afterwards.  Not just the men, but the women and children too.  Mainland Asia as a whole would have to be cleansed of human life, except for maybe South Korea.