The China Thread

[Berkut]

They would have the element of national fuck you.

Sure. I just don't see many Americans actually caring.

Hanoi Hilton? Americans don't look on that with embarrassment.

Bin Laden? You would just be saying "Hey, we are most definitely your enemy!". Just doesn't have the same angst behind it that seems so obvious when the CHinese government rails and gnashes their teeth over someone mentioning Taiwan.

[Sheilbh]

Wouldn't the US equivalent be something like George Wallace Avenue, Bull Connor Square etc?

[Razgovory]

Wouldn't the US equivalent be something like George Wallace Avenue, Bull Connor Square etc?

It's like I don't even post here.

[DGuller]

It's hard for an open society to be embarrassed by something.  In order for something to be embarrassing, you have to know that it's true, everyone else has to know that it's true, and you have to stubbornly be refusing to talk about it.  Internal dissent kind of provides an exposure therapy for all the embarrassing stuff.

[Sheilbh]

Wouldn't the US equivalent be something like George Wallace Avenue, Bull Connor Square etc?

It's like I don't even post here.

Soz - I read and then forgot

It's hard for an open society to be embarrassed by something.  In order for something to be embarrassing, you have to know that it's true, everyone else has to know that it's true, and you have to stubbornly be refusing to talk about it.  Internal dissent kind of provides an exposure therapy for all the embarrassing stuff.

I think the key is that with the Chinese examples it is embarrassment as you say.

The nearest equivalent for the US in terms of emotional responses seems to me to be shame - it would be segregation and slavery which is undoubtedly a part of the American story, but something that the majority of Americans feel shame and guilt over. I think the British equivalent would be things around imperialism: Bengal famine, Amritsar massacre etc.

But shame is different from embarrassment - I think for China or any other state experienced imperialism shame would probably be tied to that (Shimonoseki Treaty Street, Treaty of Nanking Square etc)

[Admiral Yi]

Anyone seen Raz?

[The Larch]

Sheilbh, I think you vastly vastly overrate the historical knowledge of the average citizen.

[garbon]

Sheilbh, I think you vastly vastly overrate the historical knowledge of the average citizen.

Agree. I don't think we are keeping those names around but rather letting them fall into the historical dustbin.

[Sheilbh]

Sheilbh, I think you vastly vastly overrate the historical knowledge of the average citizen.

Fair - but I think if Beijing council decided to rename all the streets around the UK's embassy after imperial atrocities it would definitely provoke a similar response even if the knowledge wasn't there to begin with. Probably a mix of outrage from the imperial nostalgists ("why isn't this named The Railways and Cricket Avenue?!") and shame and guilt from the rest of us.

[Razgovory]

Soz - I read and then forgot

[The Brain]

They can put the US embassy on a street name that includes the N-word. Officially they can say it's about remembering US slavery and present-day US racism.

[Zanza]

I think a German embassy on Adolf-Hitler-Plaza or so would not work. Probably reason enough to stop diplomatic relations. 

[Eddie Teach]

We might get that one day in Namibia.

[Josquius]

Time for the UK to recognise Taiwan?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/07/truss-says-falklands-part-of-british-family-after-china-supports-argentinas-c

[Sheilbh]

I don't know why but Truss seems to have annoyed China - there's been a couple of pieces in the Chinese media basically saying she's not an iron lady but a "chocolate soldier". I don't think Raab had any similar response. I'm not sure why