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The China Thread

Started by Jacob, September 24, 2012, 05:27:47 PM

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Berkut

Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 25, 2022, 09:23:59 AM
They would have the element of national fuck you.

Sure. I just don't see many Americans actually caring.

Hanoi Hilton? Americans don't look on that with embarrassment.

Bin Laden? You would just be saying "Hey, we are most definitely your enemy!". Just doesn't have the same angst behind it that seems so obvious when the CHinese government rails and gnashes their teeth over someone mentioning Taiwan.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Sheilbh

Wouldn't the US equivalent be something like George Wallace Avenue, Bull Connor Square etc?
Let's bomb Russia!

Razgovory

Quote from: Sheilbh on January 25, 2022, 09:44:40 AM
Wouldn't the US equivalent be something like George Wallace Avenue, Bull Connor Square etc?


It's like I don't even post here. :(
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

DGuller

It's hard for an open society to be embarrassed by something.  In order for something to be embarrassing, you have to know that it's true, everyone else has to know that it's true, and you have to stubbornly be refusing to talk about it.  Internal dissent kind of provides an exposure therapy for all the embarrassing stuff.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Razgovory on January 25, 2022, 09:48:11 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 25, 2022, 09:44:40 AM
Wouldn't the US equivalent be something like George Wallace Avenue, Bull Connor Square etc?


It's like I don't even post here. :(
Soz - I read and then forgot :blush:

QuoteIt's hard for an open society to be embarrassed by something.  In order for something to be embarrassing, you have to know that it's true, everyone else has to know that it's true, and you have to stubbornly be refusing to talk about it.  Internal dissent kind of provides an exposure therapy for all the embarrassing stuff.
I think the key is that with the Chinese examples it is embarrassment as you say.

The nearest equivalent for the US in terms of emotional responses seems to me to be shame - it would be segregation and slavery which is undoubtedly a part of the American story, but something that the majority of Americans feel shame and guilt over. I think the British equivalent would be things around imperialism: Bengal famine, Amritsar massacre etc.

But shame is different from embarrassment - I think for China or any other state experienced imperialism shame would probably be tied to that (Shimonoseki Treaty Street, Treaty of Nanking Square etc) :hmm:
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi


The Larch

Sheilbh, I think you vastly vastly overrate the historical knowledge of the average citizen.

garbon

Quote from: The Larch on January 25, 2022, 11:34:47 AM
Sheilbh, I think you vastly vastly overrate the historical knowledge of the average citizen.

Agree. I don't think we are keeping those names around but rather letting them fall into the historical dustbin.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Sheilbh

Quote from: The Larch on January 25, 2022, 11:34:47 AM
Sheilbh, I think you vastly vastly overrate the historical knowledge of the average citizen.
Fair - but I think if Beijing council decided to rename all the streets around the UK's embassy after imperial atrocities it would definitely provoke a similar response even if the knowledge wasn't there to begin with. Probably a mix of outrage from the imperial nostalgists ("why isn't this named The Railways and Cricket Avenue?!") and shame and guilt from the rest of us.
Let's bomb Russia!

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Brain

They can put the US embassy on a street name that includes the N-word. Officially they can say it's about remembering US slavery and present-day US racism.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Zanza

I think a German embassy on Adolf-Hitler-Plaza or so would not work. Probably reason enough to stop diplomatic relations. 

Eddie Teach

We might get that one day in Namibia.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Josquius

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Sheilbh

I don't know why but Truss seems to have annoyed China - there's been a couple of pieces in the Chinese media basically saying she's not an iron lady but a "chocolate soldier". I don't think Raab had any similar response. I'm not sure why :hmm:
Let's bomb Russia!