The China Thread

[Valmy]

I think Mono's always been about the idea that you submit to the order/leadership that prevails whoever it is and that's it.

There is some principle to it. Like law and order and not blocking roadways and disrupting civilization or whatever. An anti-chaos position.

I think if it was 1949 he would have been fanatically anti-Mao until order was established.

[The Brain]

What if it was 2,000 years ago, would he have supported Wang Mang?

[Razgovory]

What is your point?

That it is ok to stifle the press if they say stuff you don't like?

The point is, they are far from saints and they are not an objective paper seeking the truth.

I don't think you understand what a newspaper is...

[Tonitrus]

What if it was 2,000 years ago, would he have supported Wang Mang?

Like everybody, he would Wang Chung tonight.

[The Brain]

What if it was 2,000 years ago, would he have supported Wang Mang?

Like everybody, he would Wang Chung tonight.

I've always found Wang Chung's scepticism and rationality attractive.

[Savonarola]

From the BBC:

Hong Kong: US to issue warning on business risks


The US is set to issue a warning to firms over the risks of doing business in Hong Kong after China imposed a new national security law there last year.

In a new advisory, the White House will tell multinational firms that they are subject to the laws and that their people could be arrested under them.

Other risks may include having to surrender data to Chinese authorities.

President Biden said on Thursday that "the situation in Hong Kong is deteriorating".

Ahead of the business advisory being issued by the departments of State, Treasury, Commerce and Homeland Security, the president warned: "The Chinese government is not keeping its commitment that it made, how it would deal with Hong Kong".

The national security law was introduced in Hong Kong last year after protests over an extradition law turned violent and evolved into a broader anti-China and pro-democracy movement. It makes it easier to punish protesters and reduces the city's autonomy.

The advisory is expected to cover several other areas including freedom of the press, data privacy and sanctions.


Jeff Moon, a former assistant US trade representative who worked on Hong Kong policy during the Obama administration, told the BBC: "I think this is quite serious.

"I think it's a reflection of the dramatic changes that have gone on in Hong Kong."

He pointed out that hundreds of American companies have a presence in Hong Kong. According to the American Chamber of Commerce in the city, about 280 companies have regional headquarters there.

Businesses with operations or staff in Hong Kong should consider potential reputational and legal risks, the advisory is expected to say.


According to the American Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong, about 280 companies have regional headquarters there.


Mr Moon added that although Hong Kong is an incredibly valuable economic hub, the so-called "one country, two systems" principle which has come under pressure means its appeal to foreign firms will have changed.

Although the advisory will not recommend businesses withdraw from the area, Beijing said it would follow up with a "firm response" to any action taken by Washington.

"We urge the US side to stop interfering in the Hong Kong issue and China's internal affairs in any form," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian told a news conference on Friday.

The advisory comes several days after the US warned businesses about having links to China's Xinjiang region, citing alleged abuses of the mostly Muslim Uyghur minority group and surveillance there.

American firms that still have supply chain and investment ties in the region were told they "could run a high risk of violating US law", it said.

China has denied previous allegations that the region's Uyghur population has been subjected to human rights abuses.

[The Minsky Moment]

US companies are willing to accept some level of jurisdictional risk, as evidenced by the fact that many operate on the mainland.  But some fraction of them locate in HK because of the perceived jurisdictional safety and those will likely leave.  Some are there because of the perception that the  commercial courts are more reliable than on the mainland, perception that has taken a hit given the open strongarming of the judiciary by Beijing. 

The real problem HK is going to have going forward is why go there instead of Shanghai or some other 1st rank Chinese city.

[Sheilbh]

Excellent reporting by AP:
https://apnews.com/article/business-religion-china-only-on-ap-f89c20645e69208a416c64d229c072de

Room for 10,000: Inside China's largest detention center

[Jacob]

It is very likely that the number of casualties from the flood in Henan is much much higher than official numbers.

Outside military units were brought in to clear up the damage, rather than using the local police. The local police, meanwhile, are being sent door to door to make it clear to people not to speak to foreign looking reporters as they're the type to "make up lies" to hurt the motherland.

Major tunnels were flooded with hundreds of cars completely submerged.

People who've gone to the subway stations after the traditional seven days to grieve for their parents/ children/ other family who went to work and never came back on the day of the floods have been unceremoniously told they couldn't do that by the police.

[Josquius]

Pff. There's a big element of why here too. Natural disasters hir everywhere. And China isn't big on suing the government.

[Jacob]

Pff. There's a big element of why here too. Natural disasters hir everywhere. And China isn't big on suing the government.

Why?

The government response was terrible.

- The forecast was available, but no action were taken beforehand. The subway wasn't shut down, even as it was flooding, because no one with authority thought to shut it down. I.e. the mayor said "we are keeping open, we can't impact the economy due to bad weather", and no one above him in the party hierarchy said otherwise. Conversely, the subway manager followed the mayor's lead, and so on all the way down to individual subway employees.

- The highway tunnel that flooded with all the cars was fully backed up because it was a toll tunnel, and the staff manning the gates had left so the cars couldn't exit.

- A dam was opened (to relieve pressure because it was already in vulnerable state due to cracks), but no warning was given to people downstream. An entire village was washed away, essentially, and the people had no warning to flee.

Meanwhile, Xi is in Tibet and hasn't taken any action.

Basically, the authorities failed to prepare and are failing to respond except to cover up the magnitude of the consequences, focusing on making sure no one tallies up how bad it was or calls them out for their failures.

[Berkut]

Pff. There's a big element of why here too. Natural disasters hir everywhere. And China isn't big on suing the government.

Why?

The government response was terrible.

- The forecast was available, but no action were taken beforehand. The subway wasn't shut down, even as it was flooding, because no one with authority thought to shut it down. I.e. the mayor said "we are keeping open, we can't impact the economy due to bad weather", and no one above him in the party hierarchy said otherwise. Conversely, the subway manager followed the mayor's lead, and so on all the way down to individual subway employees.

- The highway tunnel that flooded with all the cars was fully backed up because it was a toll tunnel, and the staff manning the gates had left so the cars couldn't exit.

- A dam was opened (to relieve pressure because it was already in vulnerable state due to cracks), but no warning was given to people downstream. An entire village was washed away, essentially, and the people had no warning to flee.

Meanwhile, Xi is in Tibet and hasn't taken any action.

Basically, the authorities failed to prepare and are failing to respond except to cover up the magnitude of the consequences, focusing on making sure no one tallies up how bad it was or calls them out for their failures.

This cannot come as a surprise. This is how any government that has gone out of its way to control the means of communicating information is going to act - it is for exactly *this* purpose that they insist on having that control to begin with!

[Jacob]

This cannot come as a surprise. This is how any government that has gone out of its way to control the means of communicating information is going to act - it is for exactly *this* purpose that they insist on having that control to begin with!

Not a surprise, no. It has always been a feature of the CCP, but it seems particularly acute under Xi. In the medium to long term, I'm certain it will have a negative impact on the course of the Chinese state and people.

In other news, it's appear that China has the Delta variant in a number of cities - potentially arriving at an airport and spreading that way. It appears that in spite of the strict measures - or perhaps because of them - some people are have started to habitually circumvent them where convenient (paging Dorsey).

[Sheilbh]

On the foreign reporters point - statement from the BBC:


Seems to be some possibly local CCP figures whipping up popular anger at the foreign press. Posting updates on where the BBC team are is pretty concerning behaviour.

[Jacob]

The immediate action by the CCP and the Chinese government was to have the local police go door to door to tell people not to speak to foreign journalists because they're going to spread lies to hurt China.

This was not a one-off social media post, it was a deliberate and sustained policy to focus on how reporting on the events by foreign media is a conspiracy against China.