The China Thread

[MadImmortalMan]

Just wait until the calls for Wuhan virus reparations from China begin in earnest. The little pinks and 50 cent army flamewars are going to be epic.

[Syt]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52856876

Trump targets China over Hong Kong security law

President Donald Trump has announced that he will start to end preferential treatment for Hong Kong in trade and travel, in response to a new security law pushed by Beijing.

He described the Chinese government's moves to introduce the measure in Hong Kong as a "tragedy".

Mr Trump also said he was "terminating" the US relationship with the World Health Organization over Covid-19.

China has told the West to "stop interfering" in Hong Kong.

The territory, a former British colony, enjoys unique freedoms not seen in mainland China. But many people there see the looming security law as bringing an end to Hong Kong's special status, agreed under a 1984 agreement between China and the UK.

There are fears the proposed measure - which has sparked a wave of anti-mainland protests - could end Hong Kong's unique status and make it a crime to undermine Beijing's authority in the territory.

This week, Britain said that if China went forward with the law, it could offer British National (Overseas) passport holders in Hong Kong a path to UK citizenship.

On Friday, the UK Home Office confirmed that up to three million people with BNO status could acquire citizenship in this way - as long as they applied for and were granted a passport.

What did President Trump outline?

Mr Trump said that he no longer considered Hong Kong to be separate from China.

"China has replaced One Country, Two Systems with One Country, One System", Mr Trump told reporters in the White House's Rose Garden, in a prepared statement that attacked China on several fronts.

"This is a tragedy for Hong Kong... China has smothered Hong Kong's freedom," he said.

Mr Trump said sanctions would be imposed on Chinese and Hong Kong officials who were believed by Washington to be involved in eroding the territory's autonomy. He did not outline what form these sanctions would take.

He added that the State Department would revise its travel advisory for Hong Kong in light of "increased danger of surveillance" from China.

The president also said the US would suspend the entry of foreign nationals from China identified by the US as potential security risks. There are fears that this could affect thousands of graduate students.

No further details were given on Mr Trump's announcement that he would "terminate" the US relationship with the WHO. In April, the US president said he would halt funding to the UN agency because it has "failed in its basic duty" in its response to the coronavirus outbreak.

He accused the WHO of mismanaging and covering up the spread of the virus after it emerged in China.

The Global Times newspaper - whose views are believed to reflect those of China's leaders- called the move towards revoking Hong Kong's special status with the US "recklessly arbitrary".

Hong Kong's Justice Secretary Teresa Cheng told the BBC's Chinese Service earlier on Friday that any threat of sanctions was unacceptable.

"Are the sanctions being imposed with a view to coerce another state to change their policy...? Any such sanctions are not going to benefit anyone," she said.

Adding a new edge to the deteriorating US-China relations

Analysis by Zhaoyin Feng, BBC Chinese

The US removing Hong Kong's special privileges sent a strong warning signal to China, which activists and protesters in the territory will welcome.

The announced measures include not only Hong Kong, but also intellectual property theft and Chinese firms listed in the US.

According to media reports, Washington is expected to revoke more than 3,000 Chinese graduate students' visas. While this accounts for only 1% of the total number of Chinese students in America, Washington's move will open yet another front of the bilateral tensions.

But the separate punishments announced for China may not be as harsh as what had been expected, as indicated in the stock markets' rise after his speech.

Beijing will probably match some of Washington's sanctions and restrictions in a tit-for-tat manner. After a short-lived honeymoon since the trade deal, China and the US appear to be heading towards the abyss at an accelerating speed.

China has proposed security legislation which would make it a crime to undermine Beijing's authority in Hong Kong, and could also see China installing its own security agencies in the region for the first time.

China's parliament has backed the resolution - which now passes to the country's senior leadership.

Full details about exactly what behaviour will be outlawed under the new security law are not yet clear. It is due to be enacted before September.

However, it is expected to criminalise:

- secession - breaking away from China
- subversion - undermining the power or authority of the central government
- terrorism - using violence or intimidation against people
- activities by foreign forces that interfere in Hong Kong

Experts say they fear the law could see people punished for criticising Beijing - as happens in mainland China. For example, Nobel Laureate Liu Xiaobo was jailed for 11 years for subversion after he co-authored a document calling for political reform.

China's foreign ministry in Hong Kong described US criticism of the new draft law as "utterly imperious, unreasonable and shameless".

[Tonitrus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53003688

Zoom suspends account of US-based Chinese activists after Tiananmen meeting
6 hours ago

Humanitarian China says the call was attended by hundreds of people, including those in China
Video conferencing giant Zoom suspended the account of a group of US-based Chinese activists after they held a meeting on the platform to commemorate the Tiananmen Square crackdown.

The Humanitarian China group said its account was shut just days after the event, which was attended by about 250 people including some activists who called in from China.

Zoom said the account had been closed to comply with "local laws".

The account was later re-activated.

"When a meeting is held across different countries, the participants within those countries are required to comply with their respective local laws," Zoom said in a statement emailed to news outlets.

"We aim to limit the actions we take to those necessary to comply with local law and continuously review and improve our process on these matters," the statement said.

[Sheilbh]

Three Indian soldiers killed in border clashes with China. These have been going on for weeks and I feel should be a bigger news story - but I think this is the first loss of life.

[Josquius]

Interesting that China isn't reporting its casualties. It doesn't want to stir up shit against India at the moment?

[celedhring]

Three Indian soldiers killed in border clashes with China. These have been going on for weeks and I feel should be a bigger news story - but I think this is the first loss of life.

I read the deaths were not caused by gunfire but by sticks and stones? They'd do the world a favour if they skipped WWIII and went straight to WWIV.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I'm not sure if they have deaths or just injuries - they've not been shooting clashes (I would note in the videos I've seen of these clashes over the last few weeks in general the Indian soldiers seem quite restrained and professional while the Chinese soldiers are quite aggressive and behaving like American cops when they think the cameras are off):

India soldiers killed in clash with Chinese forces
    1 hour ago

Three Indian soldiers have been killed in a clash with Chinese forces in Ladakh in the disputed Kashmir region.

The deaths are the first in the disputed border area in at least 45 years, and follow rising military tensions between the nuclear powers.

The Indian army said senior military officials from both sides were "meeting to defuse the situation", adding that both sides suffered casualties.

An Indian army spokesman said the dead were one officer and two soldiers.

China did not confirm any casualties, but accused India of crossing the border in the Galwan Valley.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said India had crossed the border twice on Monday, "provoking and attacking Chinese personnel, resulting in serious physical confrontation between border forces on the two sides", AFP news agency reported.

Both sides insist no bullet has been fired in four decades, and the Indian army said on Tuesday that "no shots were fired" in this latest skirmish.

Local media outlets reported that the Indian soldiers were "beaten to death" but there was no confirmation from the military.

China's Global Times newspaper reported that "solemn representations" had been made with India over the incident.

The clash comes amid rising tensions between the two powers, which have brawled along the border in recent weeks but not exchanged any gunfire.

India has accused China of sending thousands of troops into Ladakh's Galwan valley and says China occupies 38,000sq km (about 14,700sq miles) of its territory. Several rounds of talks in the last three decades have failed to resolve the boundary disputes.

The deaths reported on Tuesday are believed to be the first in decades in a confrontation between the two powers. They have fought only one war so far, in 1962, when India suffered a humiliating defeat.

In May, dozens of Indian and Chinese soldiers exchanged physical blows in a clash on the border in the north-eastern state of Sikkim. And in 2017, the two countries clashed in the region after China tried to extend a border road through a disputed plateau.

Their armies - two of the world's largest - come face to face at many points. The two sides are separated by the poorly demarcated Line of Actual Control (LAC). Rivers, lakes and snowcaps mean the line can shift, provoking confrontation.

There are several reasons why tensions are rising now - but competing strategic goals lie at the root, and both sides blame each other.

India has built a new road in what experts say is the most remote and vulnerable area along the LAC in Ladakh. And India's decision to ramp up infrastructure seems to have infuriated Beijing.

The road could boost Delhi's capability to move men and material rapidly in case of a conflict.

India also disputes part of Kashmir - an ethnically diverse Himalayan region covering about 140,000sq km - with Pakistan.

Over the past week, Indian media have been reporting that troops from both sides had been gradually moving back from their stand-off positions, and that efforts were under way to de-escalate the tensions along the border. So it will come as a surprise to many to hear of a violent clash in which three Indian soldiers were killed.

The last time the two sides exchanged any gunfire along the border was 1975, when four Indian soldiers were killed in a remote pass in north-eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh.

The details of the latest skirmish, and the emergency measures being taken to defuse it, are still unclear.

Whatever the result, the latest incident is likely to trigger a fresh wave of anti-China sentiments in India.

It will also present daunting foreign policy and security challenges to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his government, which is struggling to contain a surge of Covid-19 infections and revive an economy which looks headed for recession.

[Sheilbh]

New reports in India that there are "significantly" more casualties, a number of Indian soldiers were captured and released but the PLA is still holding an Indian major and captain. It feels like this could get a lot worse especially as, at the minute, India probably doesn't have much leverage/room for retaliation. It seems the local mechanisms for de-escalation are working - Generals meeting in Ladakh which is promising.

But Chinese foreign ministry is taking a very strident line in its statements which probably makes that more difficult.

Edit: Indian army have now confirmed at least 20 dead. They also claim there were Chinese casualties, it sounds like at least about 40 dead and injured. All of these numbers seem implausibly high for a sticks and stones brawl

If it was just a brawl I woner if some of the casualties are actually people falling and not being able to be rescued?

[Sheilbh]

Guardian story is crazy:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/16/india-says-soldiers-killed-on-disputed-himalayan-border-with-china?CMP=share_btn_tw

An Indian commanding officer was pushed and fell into the river gorge, sources said, leading to reinforcements being called and up to 600 troops from both armies fighting hand-to-hand, with stones and iron rods as weapons, until late in the night, with several men from both sides falling to their deaths. No shots were fired.

Tensions between the two sides had been escalating since late April, after China's encroachment of thousands of troops into disputed territory along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), who set up camps and brought over artillery and vehicles and caught India off-guard. Chinese soldiers ignored repeated verbal warnings to leave, triggering shouting matches, stone-throwing and fistfights in key border areas, but on 6 June there was a meeting of senior Indian and Chinese military commanders and a commitment to disengagement was made on both sides.

However, tensions remained high as Chinese troops had still not withdrawn from certain areas of disputed territory, including Galwan Valley. Monday's fatal clashes happened close to Patrolling Point 14 in the Galwan Valley, near the LAC. Chinese PLA troops had reportedly begun to retreat east from the area as agreed, but then turned back and were then confronted by Indian troops patrolling the area.

I am slightly terrified at two nuclear-armed, emerging super-powers basically having brawls between lads along their border

[Valmy]

So on the youtube channel Voices from the Past there is a video of an account of a Chinese Monk traveling to India in the 4th Century AD in the Gupta period. In the comments below one Indian noted how wonderful their two great ancient civilizations were and said "love to China from India" to which a Chinese commenter repied: "Love from China! We want our territory back!" and another Indian immediately responded with "we want our territory back to"

Ah another international peace movement falling apart after its first member.

I have to say I have never before seen somebody expressing both love and a territorial demand juxtaposed like that.

[Monoriu]

So on the youtube channel Voices from the Past there is a video of an account of a Chinese Monk traveling to India in the 4th Century AD in the Gupta period. In the comments below one Indian noted how wonderful their two great ancient civilizations were and said "love to China from India" to which a Chinese commenter repied: "Love from China! We want our territory back!" and another Indian immediately responded with "we want our territory back to"

Ah another international peace movement falling apart after its first member.

I have to say I have never before seen somebody expressing both love and a territorial demand juxtaposed like that.

What's wrong with that?

[DGuller]

I am slightly terrified at two nuclear-armed, emerging super-powers basically having brawls between lads along their border

Maybe they're practicing the post-nuclear-exchange tactics.

[Eddie Teach]

So on the youtube channel Voices from the Past there is a video of an account of a Chinese Monk traveling to India in the 4th Century AD in the Gupta period. In the comments below one Indian noted how wonderful their two great ancient civilizations were and said "love to China from India" to which a Chinese commenter repied: "Love from China! We want our territory back!" and another Indian immediately responded with "we want our territory back to"

Ah another international peace movement falling apart after its first member.

I have to say I have never before seen somebody expressing both love and a territorial demand juxtaposed like that.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing. 54 40 or fight! 

[Valmy]

What's wrong with that?

I mean you cannot really be more hostile than demanding another country's territory

[Monoriu]

I am the one person here who has a non-zero chance of seeing PLA troops in rioting gear in action before my eyes.