Chicago Teachers Union leader Karen Lewis pushed back — and won

[CountDeMoney]

Who is going to pay the salaries for these observers?

You mean, back when we actually spent money on the education system?

[Martinus]

grumbler and Seeds are right.  Teachers complain about just about everything, and to some extent they are right.  Parents routinely blame them for their kids being disrespectful illterate tools while not enforcing any discipline or respect for education at home.  But the teachers' unions often seem to be concerned about keeping jobs rather than keeping and promoting good performers.

Essentially, education is by large a shitty line of work for shitty people doing shitty job with shitty students. I think it will always be like that unless we find a better idea what to do with kids. As it is now, it is one of the most unusual and exceptional proposition in the free market economy - an attempt to provide a uniform level of service to an entire populace of certain age, notwithstanding their ability to pay or benefit from that service. In a sense, it is bound to fail, no?

[Martinus]

If I were a teacher, I'd be pissed off about my career tied to the performance of the snot-nosed little shits that may or may not show up for class, or bother to do the work or read a book, too. 

Teachers are the facilitators in these scenarios, not the performers.  That resides with the students and their parents.

The little shits wouldn't be such a problem if on top of that one did not have to deal with a horde of retarded helicopter parents who think that every time their little shit gets a grade below B, it must be the teacher's fault.

  Aren't too many hoverparents in the 'hood, Marti.

Ok, I think it might be different here in Europe. I think it is much more common for working class, "salt of the earth", uneducated, rude parents to go to school and yell and children when their kids get into trouble here in Europe - that stereotype is frequently lampooned in British comedy, for example, and I think in Poland it is also quite common.

But yeah, I give you that these are not "helicopter parents", still.

[garbon]

Who is going to pay the salaries for these observers?

You mean, back when we actually spent money on the education system?

How conservative.

Anyway, the point stands - mentioning observers is pretty irrelevant in a situation when there isn't even enough money to pay the current crop of teachers.  I also doubt that the same teachers railing against these tests would be happy to have someone show up and assess whether they should keep their jobs.

[CountDeMoney]

How conservative.

Well, we can wait until later, when Hansy shows up to trot out the DC public school system as an example of OMG THEY GET MOR MONEY THAN ANYBODY.

Anyway, the point stands - mentioning observers is pretty irrelevant in a situation when there isn't even enough money to pay the current crop of teachers.  I also doubt that the same teachers railing against these tests would be happy to have someone show up and assess whether they should keep their jobs.

All I'm saying is, there are better metrics to measure teacher performance than the test results of kids that aren't there.

[garbon]

All I'm saying is, there are better metrics to measure teacher performance than the test results of kids that aren't there.

Well yes, I think we can agree on that.

[Darth Wagtaros]

grumbler and Seeds are right.  Teachers complain about just about everything, and to some extent they are right.  Parents routinely blame them for their kids being disrespectful illterate tools while not enforcing any discipline or respect for education at home.  But the teachers' unions often seem to be concerned about keeping jobs rather than keeping and promoting good performers.

Essentially, education is by large a shitty line of work for shitty people doing shitty job with shitty students. I think it will always be like that unless we find a better idea what to do with kids. As it is now, it is one of the most unusual and exceptional proposition in the free market economy - an attempt to provide a uniform level of service to an entire populace of certain age, notwithstanding their ability to pay or benefit from that service. In a sense, it is bound to fail, no?

I'd agree that putting the interested higher performing (or even just those with an interest in getting education) in the same pool as the drones and the crazies is a recipe for failure.  A lot of systems make no differentiation between the two and as a result the teacher is a disciplinarian for the crazies rather than a good educator. 

[alfred russel]

Testing gets a lot of abuse, but in some cases it makes sense: if you can't pass certain basic reading or math tests, you probably lack basic reading or math skills. I have two family members that have recently taught or are teaching at failing schools, and their students almost universally fail the state testing. I don't think that is because they are bad teachers; it is because in some cases the students are children of migrant workers that don't speak english and are gone half the year, or in other cases have been socially promoted and have made it into high school basically illiterate.

If I was in their boat, I wouldn't want my pay tied to a test that my students couldn't pass no matter what they did. But in these cases the problem isn't the test: the test is just shedding light on the problem that a bunch of kids are failing to obtain some basic skills.

[derspiess]

If this Karen Lewis broad were my champion I think I'd have to seriously re-evaluate my career/life.

[Razgovory]

If this Karen Lewis broad were my champion I think I'd have to seriously re-evaluate my career/life.

I thought the same thing about Mitt Romney.

[derspiess]

If this Karen Lewis broad were my champion I think I'd have to seriously re-evaluate my career/life.

I thought the same thing about Mitt Romney.

Really?  Are you familiar with Karen Lewis??

[DGuller]

Really?  Are you familiar with Karen Lewis??

Let me guess, you're very well-versed in the subject of Karen Lewis ever since some retard blogs informed you a couple of days ago with everything you need to know about her.

[grumbler]

Testing gets a lot of abuse, but in some cases it makes sense: if you can't pass certain basic reading or math tests, you probably lack basic reading or math skills. I have two family members that have recently taught or are teaching at failing schools, and their students almost universally fail the state testing. I don't think that is because they are bad teachers; it is because in some cases the students are children of migrant workers that don't speak english and are gone half the year, or in other cases have been socially promoted and have made it into high school basically illiterate.

If I was in their boat, I wouldn't want my pay tied to a test that my students couldn't pass no matter what they did. But in these cases the problem isn't the test: the test is just shedding light on the problem that a bunch of kids are failing to obtain some basic skills.

I don't think we need tests to discover the problems of students who don't speak English, are gone half the year, or are illiterate.

The problem with testing isn't that it doesn't give decision-makers some valid info in the aggregate, it's that multiple-choice tests don't measure what we want to measure in students: things like analytical skills, creativity, and communications sills.  It is possible to test for those things, but it is hard, so school authorities test for what is easy to test - which happens to be the ability to take these kinds of tests.  That's an ability that students won't use much in real life.

[derspiess]

Really?  Are you familiar with Karen Lewis??

Let me guess, you're very well-versed in the subject of Karen Lewis ever since some retard blogs informed you a couple of days ago with everything you need to know about her.

Eh, no.  I watched a couple videos of her speaking.

[garbon]

That's an ability that students won't use much in real life.

Many of us don't use creativity or analytical thinking after school either.