1 year on, Occupy is in disarray; spirit lives on

[Barrister]

Does anyone think that?  They had a surplus of messages. 

What they lacked entirely was policy.  So the pointlessness of the movement was exposed from the very first.

Is it a protest's movements responsibility to form policy?  That is a pretty absurd and ridiculous demand, not even the most brilliant minds in the world can come up with decent policies to solve our current problems.

Sure it is.  Now usually that policy is pretty simple and basic - "No Poll Tax", "Mubarak Must Resign", "We want elections".  But there needs to be some kind of basic policy you are trying to implement.

[Valmy]

Sure it is.  Now usually that policy is pretty simple and basic - "No Poll Tax", "Mubarak Must Resign", "We want elections".  But there needs to be some kind of basic policy you are trying to implement.

I couldn't disagree more.  Sometimes you need to make those in power know the natives are restless.  I mean obviously if there is something obvious to be done sure that really helps but all that is required to protest is a grievence.  That grievance can be perfectly justified without necessarily having a program of reform.  Especially in this case because nobody really has any idea how to fix the problems.  I mean we are demanding something of the hoi polloi we are not getting from elites.

[CountDeMoney]

I couldn't disagree more.  Sometimes you need to make those in power know the natives are restless.  I mean obviously if there is something obvious to be done sure that really helps but all that is required to protest is a grievence.  That grievance can be perfectly justified without necessarily having a program of reform.  Especially in this case because nobody really has any idea how to fix the problems.  I mean we are demanding something of the hoi polloi we are not getting from elites.

So the natives are restless, big fucking deal.  Guess what?  The elites don't care.  Why?  Because there's nothing to be afraid of.  Certainly not from the government, so why should a handful of fucking hipsters matter?

[Josephus]

The anti-abortion movement in the early '80s had nothing but slogans, too.  Until doctors started getting whacked and clinics started getting blown up.  Imma jus sayin'.

You're saying that you think it'd be a good idea if we descended into violence?

I'm not saying that.  Because that would be wrong.

It'd actually just be incredibly stupid. Yay things are bad, let's make them worse!

Complacency is worse. You saying things became worse for the french peasant because of the violent revolution?

[garbon]

Complacency is worse. You saying things became worse for the french peasant because of the violent revolution?

I think in general, yes, things in France became way worse before they became better.

[garbon]

why should a handful of fucking hipsters matter?

That's a general question though really should just be rhetorical.

[garbon]

It'd actually just be incredibly stupid. Yay things are bad, let's make them worse!

That's a bit subjective, now isn't it?

No not really. I think for everyone an increase in violence is a net negative - at least for the short term.

[garbon]

Sure it is.  Now usually that policy is pretty simple and basic - "No Poll Tax", "Mubarak Must Resign", "We want elections".  But there needs to be some kind of basic policy you are trying to implement.

I couldn't disagree more.  Sometimes you need to make those in power know the natives are restless.  I mean obviously if there is something obvious to be done sure that really helps but all that is required to protest is a grievence.  That grievance can be perfectly justified without necessarily having a program of reform.  Especially in this case because nobody really has any idea how to fix the problems.  I mean we are demanding something of the hoi polloi we are not getting from elites.

Really? Then what you get is a movement that dies out without changing much.

[Malthus]

Does anyone think that?  They had a surplus of messages. 

What they lacked entirely was policy.  So the pointlessness of the movement was exposed from the very first.

Is it a protest's movements responsibility to form policy?  That is a pretty absurd and ridiculous demand, not even the most brilliant minds in the world can come up with decent policies to solve our current problems.

Sure it is.  Now usually that policy is pretty simple and basic - "No Poll Tax", "Mubarak Must Resign", "We want elections".  But there needs to be some kind of basic policy you are trying to implement.

Wouldn't the basic policy here be "reduce income inequality"?

The problem is that there is no easy way to achieve that.

[Valmy]

Really? Then what you get is a movement that dies out without changing much.

Which is exactly what it did.  And generally does.  Even when a movement like that has success it historically tends to have problems, like alot of peasant movements.  But I thought we were talking about its legitimacy not its effectiveness.   I never said the Occupy movement was a successful movement only that it was in reaction to legitimate problems and did reflect popular anger.  It was not just hipsters out being cool by fightin' the man or whatever.

[garbon]

Really? Then what you get is a movement that dies out without changing much.

Which is exactly what it did.  And generally does.  Even when a movement like that has success it historically tends to have problems, like alot of peasant movements.  But I thought we were talking about its legitimacy not its effectiveness.   I never said the Occupy movement was a successful movement only that it was in reaction to legitimate problems and did reflect popular anger.  It was not just hipsters out being cool by fightin' the man or whatever.

I don't think so. Yours is the first post to mention legitimacy.  Most recent discussion stemmed off of Yi responding to Ide's comments about people not listening who say OWS didn't have a message.

[Valmy]

I don't think so. Yours is the first post to mention legitimacy.  Most recent discussion stemmed off of Yi responding to Ide's comments about people not listening who say OWS didn't have a message.

They did have a message which is what I meant by legitimacy...just no solutions.  Which I do not judge them too much for because nobody really does. 

Their message is that the elites have let us down and it is the people, not them, who are suffering for their mistakes.

[CountDeMoney]

[citizen k]

The Tent Offensive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9Caqb9DIhM

[garbon]

I don't think so. Yours is the first post to mention legitimacy.  Most recent discussion stemmed off of Yi responding to Ide's comments about people not listening who say OWS didn't have a message.

They did have a message which is what I meant by legitimacy...just no solutions.  Which I do not judge them too much for because nobody really does. 

Their message is that the elites have let us down and it is the people, not them, who are suffering for their mistakes.

I don't see how any of that counters Yi's point that it was...pointless.