Flamewar time: Pedophiles: born that way?

[Valmy]

@Marty- I'm sure human flesh tastes much better than cucumbers. 

No way human flesh has the clean cool taste of a fresh cucumber

[Valmy]

Incidentally, I think the whole nature vs. nurture debate is useless when it comes to determining people's rights and obligations.

Indeed.  Only only matters in regards to how to combat dangerous deviant behaviors like child sexual abuse.  For as you say:

There is also an opposite theory that it may be a "gateway drug" to trying it with an actual child.

Because if it is nature then there is no need to worry about "gateway drugs" but rather they serve as just a 'flag' for people who are naturally dangerous.   If it is nurture then it might require different sorts of societal interventions.

[PDH]

The idea that a complex behavior is hard wired in the brain simplifies human bio-cultural actions.  To say there is no (or very little) social aspect or biological aspect makes humans either machines that are not at fault (or should be euthanized) or culture machines divorced from the body.

Either way is stupid.

[garbon]

The idea that a complex behavior is hard wired in the brain simplifies human bio-cultural actions.  To say there is no (or very little) social aspect or biological aspect makes humans either machines that are not at fault (or should be euthanized) or culture machines divorced from the body.

Either way is stupid.

It must be black or white!

[PDH]

I like mocha.

[Valmy]

It must be black or white!

It is ok to be both.

[garbon]

It must be black or white!

It is ok to be both.

Don't you tell me how to be, white devil!

[Valmy]

Don't you tell me how to be, white devil!

[CountDeMoney]

The idea that a complex behavior is hard wired in the brain simplifies human bio-cultural actions.  To say there is no (or very little) social aspect or biological aspect makes humans either machines that are not at fault (or should be euthanized) or culture machines divorced from the body.

Who says it's complex behavior?  Sexual wiring is as basic wiring as it gets.  It's a base physiological drive.  Read your Maslow from high school.

[Razgovory]

I've brought it up a couple of times.  Throws Marty in a rage, but that wasn't the point.  I think it's a serious ethical issue.  I see a serious disconnect in the way mental health regards both.  If it's barbaric and pointless to treat one, why is it okay to treat another?  If they are both biological then treatment or non treatment should be regarded the same.

One triggers behaviour harmful to others and is impossible to satisfy without hurting others. The other isn't.

You could just as well claim that a taste for human flesh is no different than a taste for cucumbers.

You are hiding behind cultural mores and law.  If we lived in a society like ancient Greece where they was considered normal then what?

[Barrister]

The idea that a complex behavior is hard wired in the brain simplifies human bio-cultural actions.  To say there is no (or very little) social aspect or biological aspect makes humans either machines that are not at fault (or should be euthanized) or culture machines divorced from the body.

Who says it's complex behavior?  Sexual wiring is as basic wiring as it gets.  It's a base physiological drive.  Read your Maslow from high school.

Alls I know is that, many years ago, I was called in to take an additional statement from a client of my firm who we were representing on an indian residential school claim.  This client was now in his 70s, and too ill to be able to travel into town to come to our office, so I went out to his reserve.  He then, under the cover of solicitor-client privilege (so I'm not telling you any identifying information) proceeded to tell me how he had been sexually molested as a young boy by other students at the school.  He then went on to tell me his great shame - that he in turn molested the younger boys when he grew older.

So yeah - sexual wiring is pretty fucking complex.

[PDH]

Who says it's complex behavior?  Sexual wiring is as basic wiring as it gets.  It's a base physiological drive.  Read your Maslow from high school.

Maslow was a kook.

Procreation might be basic, sex is complex.  Hell, even in Maslow it is middle of the pyramid (not physiological, it is belonging), not basic at all.

Self actualized my ass.

[Razgovory]

Agree that Maslow is a kook.

[CountDeMoney]

So yeah - sexual wiring is pretty fucking complex.

Nonsense.  Why one would whip asian chicks with Hot Wheels tracks is pretty fucking simple to figure out: it's fun.

[derspiess]

So yeah - sexual wiring is pretty fucking complex.

Nonsense.  Why one would whip asian chicks with Hot Wheels tracks is pretty fucking simple to figure out: it's fun.

This I will never understand.  How can it be fun to administer pain to another person, whether or not they are willing?