Mesoamerican civilizations compared to early Mesopotamia

[PDH]

We are talking thousands of years, sometimes only aided by outside intervention.

,  , or  ?

All three. 

[Malthus]

So, were surface deposits of copper, tin, zinc and arsenic rare in Mesoamerica?

If not, why didn't they make more use copper alloys? We know they knew how to make bronze/brass, but mostly used them for decorative pieces.

A culture doesn't just say "Hey look!  If we put these things together they are better!  Let's replace our ways and stonework with an entire new system of metalworking and smithing overnight!"

Societal and technological change throughout history didn't work this way, instead it was a long and slow (sometimes painful) process to replace one technology with another.  Look at the slow adaptation of the heavy plow in the Middle Ages, for example, or the 2-field to 3-field change process during that era.

The fact that the people in Mexico knew about bronze (for instance) does not preclude that they would simple start using it right away.  That is an overy simplistic argument that disregards such things as culture and society, and how they might view such things.  Impetus for change, desire to change, and why they are doing things as they are in the first place often are/were the reasons for such things.  Do not project the technological rate of change in the past 150 years as the human societal norm.

The Mesopotamian civilizations, for all the changes they saw, took incredibly long periods to adopt technologies, to adapt to new ways of metalworking, and to societally evolve.  We are talking thousands of years, sometimes only aided by outside intervention.

As significantly - just how relatively expensive was bronze to mesoamericans?

In the ancient world, we know bronze was very expensive, because supplies of accessible tin were rare. They may have been even rarer in mesoamerica.

There may be a good raeson it was used only for jewelry. A bronze axe may be better than a flint one, but that matters little if it costs as much as an axe made of solid gold!   

[Razgovory]

So, were surface deposits of copper, tin, zinc and arsenic rare in Mesoamerica?

If not, why didn't they make more use copper alloys? We know they knew how to make bronze/brass, but mostly used them for decorative pieces.

Why did the Romans not build wind mills?  Sometimes ideas just don't occur to people.

Replacing a flint ax head with a bronze one is a much simpler idea than building wind mills, not really comparable.

EDIT: ^^^ PDH - Good points.

Actually it is not.  Metallurgy is difficult.  It requires many prerequisite technology that I'm not sure these people had.  On the other hand, Romans knew about water mills and gears.  They had all the required knowledge to build them.  They just didn't do it.  They developed wind mills in the Middle East much later, and those guys were awash in slaves.  Why did this not occur to the Romans?  Who knows?  Sometimes revolutionary ideas are very simple, but nobody thinks of them.

[Cecil]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the winds in large parts of the med arent that conducive to windmills. Something about weather patterns. Could be BS I guess.

[The Brain]

Why haven't we yet invented the ksuygctgbj? We have all the raw materials. I guess.

[Darth Wagtaros]

So, were surface deposits of copper, tin, zinc and arsenic rare in Mesoamerica?

If not, why didn't they make more use copper alloys? We know they knew how to make bronze/brass, but mostly used them for decorative pieces.

A culture doesn't just say "Hey look!  If we put these things together they are better!  Let's replace our ways and stonework with an entire new system of metalworking and smithing overnight!"

Societal and technological change throughout history didn't work this way, instead it was a long and slow (sometimes painful) process to replace one technology with another.  Look at the slow adaptation of the heavy plow in the Middle Ages, for example, or the 2-field to 3-field change process during that era.

The fact that the people in Mexico knew about bronze (for instance) does not preclude that they would simple start using it right away.  That is an overy simplistic argument that disregards such things as culture and society, and how they might view such things.  Impetus for change, desire to change, and why they are doing things as they are in the first place often are/were the reasons for such things.  Do not project the technological rate of change in the past 150 years as the human societal norm.

The Mesopotamian civilizations, for all the changes they saw, took incredibly long periods to adopt technologies, to adapt to new ways of metalworking, and to societally evolve.  We are talking thousands of years, sometimes only aided by outside intervention.

As significantly - just how relatively expensive was bronze to mesoamericans?

In the ancient world, we know bronze was very expensive, because supplies of accessible tin were rare. They may have been even rarer in mesoamerica.

There may be a good raeson it was used only for jewelry. A bronze axe may be better than a flint one, but that matters little if it costs as much as an axe made of solid gold!   

Yes.  I believe Hittites had access to easy deposites, thus their early use of bronze.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Cecil]

Speaking of bronze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ15vUjgqvw

[alfred russel]

Are primitive windmills really that useful? I get their use when you are using them like in the Netherlands, but I would guess they lack the consistency and power to be all that great for industry.

[Barrister]

Are primitive windmills really that useful? I get their use when you are using them like in the Netherlands, but I would guess they lack the consistency and power to be all that great for industry.

They were primarily used for milling wheat and pumping water.  In both applications I think it'd be okay if it was only working intermittently, as long as it worked enough.

[katmai]

You guys know PDH teaches underwater basket weaving right?

[Malthus]

You guys know PDH teaches underwater basket weaving right?

That's a base and foul slander. 

He lectures on the topic of underwater macramé

[jimmy olsen]

So, were surface deposits of copper, tin, zinc and arsenic rare in Mesoamerica?

If not, why didn't they make more use copper alloys? We know they knew how to make bronze/brass, but mostly used them for decorative pieces.

Why did the Romans not build wind mills?  Sometimes ideas just don't occur to people.

Replacing a flint ax head with a bronze one is a much simpler idea than building wind mills, not really comparable.

EDIT: ^^^ PDH - Good points.

Actually it is not.  Metallurgy is difficult.  It requires many prerequisite technology that I'm not sure these people had.

They knew how to make bronze. Making a bronze ax head would be simpler than many of the things they did make.

[Viking]

Yes.  I believe Hittites had access to easy deposites, thus their early use of bronze.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_mining

[PDH]

You guys know PDH teaches underwater basket weaving right?

Foul slander!  I am a worthy adjunct now, teaching Western Civ I and II.

I still have to do real work, but I get to flunk 120 students each semester.

[HVC]

You guys know PDH teaches underwater basket weaving right?

Foul slander!  I am a worthy adjunct now, teaching Western Civ I and II.

I still have to do real work, but I get to flunk 120 students each semester.

out of 125 students?