The DNC KenyanCommieMooselimbDidn'tBuildIt MegaThread!

[Razgovory]

Is "disincentivizing work" actually a problem in the US?

Yes.

Oh, do you have proof?

[DGuller]

Is "disincentivizing work" actually a problem in the US?

With the unemployment the way it is, we should redouble our efforts to disincentivize work.

[DGuller]

Is "disincentivizing work" actually a problem in the US?

Yes.

Oh, do you have proof?

To be fair, the way you phrased the question, even derspiess can't help but be right by saying "yes", even if he was merely intending to recite Republican sound bites.  Disincentives to work will always be a problem in societies with social safety net, just like insured houses are always going to suffer higher losses on average compared to uninsured houses. 

The interesting question is whether such inefficiencies are made up by the benefits of social safety net.  Reasonable people will say yes, but idiots will disagree.

[Jaron]

Those who are only qualified to work in menial jobs are highly susceptible to that -- standing up in Walmart for 9 hours, or sitting at home and collecting a government check ? Those without self respect and uninterested in the pride that labor can bring to your soul are disinclined to pursue that kind of labor.

I doubt people who are able to obtain non-entry level jobs experience the same feeling.

The trick is to have a safety net for those who need it, but not for those who just want it.

[Admiral Yi]

A number of you seem to operating under the incorrect assumption that disincentives have to be all or nothing.

[Eddie Teach]

Those who are only qualified to work in menial jobs are highly susceptible to that -- standing up in Walmart for 9 hours, or sitting at home and collecting a government check ? Those without self respect and uninterested in the pride that labor can bring to your soul are disinclined to pursue that kind of labor.

I doubt people who are able to obtain non-entry level jobs experience the same feeling.

The trick is to have a safety net for those who need it, but not for those who just want it.

Meh. If enough people are doing that, it will drive up the cost of menial labor and thus make it more worthwhile to do it. No reason to deny people basic necessities. And honestly, menial labor should pay at a high enough rate that it still looks attractive. Even if that means white collar professionals have to pay slightly more for their groceries.

[Jaron]

I don't think there is any shortage in labor supply at that tier. Person A can walk in off the street and apply. If they balk at the offered wages, person B or C or D will take it.

And you pay more for skills or experience. The problem with blue collar labor jobs...your Walmarts, your JiBs, your McDonalds is that there are no skills required - it takes about a day to learn to operate a cash register, or how to wait for a timer to beep before flipping a hamburger patty.

And experience isn't particularly valuable in those lines of work because a worker who has been at their post for two years isn't going to be significantly better at stocking the shelves with toilet paper than employee B who has been there two months.

[Razgovory]

It's funny.  My brother spent months trying to get one of those jobs without success.

[Eddie Teach]

I don't think there is any shortage in labor supply at that tier.

So why should the government be setting policies to encourage people to take those jobs?

[Jaron]

Because working trumps not working. And some people need some prodding just to take care of core responsibilities beneficial to their own welfare.

[DGuller]

Meh. If enough people are doing that, it will drive up the cost of menial labor and thus make it more worthwhile to do it. No reason to deny people basic necessities. And honestly, menial labor should pay at a high enough rate that it still looks attractive. Even if that means white collar professionals have to pay slightly more for their groceries.

A truth that is often forgotten, especially by adherents of "someone needs to be around to do the shit work" theory.

[DGuller]

I don't think there is any shortage in labor supply at that tier. Person A can walk in off the street and apply. If they balk at the offered wages, person B or C or D will take it.

Then disincentives to work don't really exist in this example.  Everyone except the one person who takes the job will have to be on the dole anyway.

[garbon]

Even if that means white collar professionals have to pay slightly more for their groceries.

The hardest hit would be the menial workers who would need to pay slightly more for their groceries.

[Neil]

Even if that means white collar professionals have to pay slightly more for their groceries.

The hardest hit would be the menial workers who would need to pay slightly more for their groceries.

Don't let logic interfere with the rhetoric of class warfare.

[sbr]

Even if that means white collar professionals have to pay slightly more for their groceries.

The hardest hit would be the menial workers who would need to pay slightly more for their groceries.

In Peter's example there will either be more menial workers working, or they will be making more which should offset the rise in groceries.