The GOP Convention MegaMittensThread!

[Berkut]

He got carried away?

He didn't say *anything* that was remotely controversial. It was all perfectly standard  barely left of center moderate stuff.

There was nothing there to be offended or outraged about.

[derspiess]

He got carried away?

He didn't say *anything* that was remotely controversial. It was all perfectly standard  barely left of center moderate stuff.

There was nothing there to be offended or outraged about.

I don't see how you can call that barely left of center.  It was solidly left-wing populist red meat.

[Eddie Teach]

So there aren't a lot of smart and hard-working people out there?

Like Scrooge's McPappy used to say, "Work smarter, not harder.

[crazy canuck]

He got carried away?

He didn't say *anything* that was remotely controversial. It was all perfectly standard  barely left of center moderate stuff.

There was nothing there to be offended or outraged about.

I don't see how you can call that barely left of center.  It was solidly left-wing populist red meat.

Wow, pointing out that everyone depends on the services of government is solidly left wing populist meat?

Is that another way of saying the Republicans should just cut all that stuff away because they dont really need any of that?

[derspiess]

He got carried away?

He didn't say *anything* that was remotely controversial. It was all perfectly standard  barely left of center moderate stuff.

There was nothing there to be offended or outraged about.

I don't see how you can call that barely left of center.  It was solidly left-wing populist red meat.

Wow, pointing out that everyone depends on the services of government is solidly left wing populist meat?

Is that another way of saying the Republicans should just cut all that stuff away because they dont really need any of that?

[crazy canuck]

Ok, I assume I hit the mark.

[derspiess]

Ok, I assume I hit the mark.

Nah.  Just getting tired of debating you goofballs on the same thing over & over.

[CountDeMoney]

Nah.  Just getting tired of debating you goofballs on the same thing over & over.

Same here.  Election years are so fatiguing sometimes.

[DGuller]

Ok, I assume I hit the mark.

Nah.  Just getting tired of debating you goofballs on the same thing over & over.

It's a lot less exhausting if you don't have to come up with some bullshit every time you respond.  Just take this one on faith right now, in time you'll see that I'm right.

[The Minsky Moment]

Particularly seeing how he delivered it (and the big reception it got from the crowd), it's obvious to me that he was trying to diminish what he seems to believe is small business owners' inflated sense of accomplishment-- particularly how he went on about how they're not so special for being smart or hard-working since there are "a lot of smart people out there" and "a whole bunch of hard-working people out there".

I don't read it that way but clearly there is a political motivation in the speech and I suppose that he could be criticized for unfairly characterizing his detractors and simplifying their arguments.   But that isn't the criticism levied against him.  Instead his detractors are playing right into the caricature.

[DGuller]

Particularly seeing how he delivered it (and the big reception it got from the crowd), it's obvious to me that he was trying to diminish what he seems to believe is small business owners' inflated sense of accomplishment-- particularly how he went on about how they're not so special for being smart or hard-working since there are "a lot of smart people out there" and "a whole bunch of hard-working people out there".

I don't read it that way but clearly there is a political motivation in the speech and I suppose that he could be criticized for unfairly characterizing his detractors and simplifying their arguments.   But that isn't the criticism levied against him.  Instead his detractors are playing right into the caricature.

You're assuming that his detractors are actually anything other than caricatures.

[The Minsky Moment]

I don't see how you can call that barely left of center.  It was solidly left-wing populist red meat.

Obama:

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

That's not even left of center.  It's from de Tocqueville:

I have already shown, in several parts of this work, by what means the inhabitants of the United States almost always manage to combine their own advantage with that of their fellow citizens; my present purpose is to point out the general rule that enables them to do so. In the United States hardly anybody talks of the beauty of virtue, but they maintain that virtue is useful and prove it every day. The American moralists do not profess that men ought to sacrifice themselves for their fellow creatures because it is noble to make such sacrifices, but they boldly aver that such sacrifices are as necessary to him who imposes them upon himself as to him for whose sake they are made.
. . . .
The Americans . . . are fond of explaining almost all the actions of their lives by the principle of self-interest rightly understood; they show with complacency how an enlightened regard for themselves constantly prompts them to assist one another and inclines them willingly to sacrifice a portion of their time and property to the welfare of the state.  In this respect I think they frequently fail to do themselves justice, for in the United States as well as elsewhere people are sometimes seen to give way to those disinterested and spontaneous impulses that are natural to man; but the Americans seldom admit that they yield to emotions of this kind; they are more anxious to do honor to their philosophy than to themselves.

[MadImmortalMan]

OTOH the kinds of things Obama was talking about in his "build that" speech is really not very complicated or controversial, as you acknowledge.  It would indeed be pretty stupid to deny them.  Since no reasonable person could disagree on the substance, how then to reconcile the odd fact that a convention full of delegates is holding up these uncontestable concepts as something worthy of contempt and derision?  The only possibilities seem to be that either they are deliberately misconstruing the comments or they really are so clueless as be claiming that which you agree no one sensible could claim.

Yes. His point was a good one, but his delivery sucked. He said it in a way that could be taken badly, and many people did just that. Now, the GOP are taking advantage of the opening, as you'd expect they would. It was a mistake, and his opponents are getting whatever advantage they can out of it.

[CountDeMoney]

It's from de Tocqueville:

Pfft. Commie European, etc.

[Berkut]

I don't see how you can call that barely left of center.  It was solidly left-wing populist red meat.

Obama:

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.

That's not even left of center.  It's from de Tocqueville:

Yeah, see, you just lost 98.5% of the Tea Party right there.

"de Towhat? COMMUNIST!"