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Europa Universalis IV announced

Started by Octavian, August 10, 2012, 10:05:06 AM

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Monoriu

#2895
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 27, 2015, 12:58:09 PM
I found Ceuta a bit of a poison pill to start with; it was 50 years or so before I could get it worthwhile to convert(had cardinal in administration, bonus from quest to convert a Granadan province, and an act that required admin 6). Until then there was constant unrest. Between the Sunnis and Berber traditions making coring overpriced, North Africa is not that great a target.

That being said, I was prepared to start on Morocco after finishing Castile, but Aragon had allied them in spite of my rivalry. The only countries I could get claims on were those two, England and France. Given my poor manpower and smallish economy, I didn't like any of these options. So I just started colonizing and letting my economy grow, but time was getting away from me and it was turning into a boring game where I sat around watching my colonies grow.

I tried one last hurrah, put a claim on Poitou, the one French province I could, and went to war with them along with Aragon, England, and Brittany(I think Savoy reneged, not sure). I besieged Poitou, France took it back, then Brittany started besieging it. At that point, I quit. I suppose I could have taken the Med coastal provinces without the claim, but was just tired of that game.  :blush:

If I try Portugal again, I'll make sure to ask for La Mancha in the first war instead of the third.  :sleep: Then perhaps I can afford a few mercs.

Portugal is extremely exciting to me.  Never boring.  Fifth war I went after England in my current game.  They had a larger army than mine.  I managed to win by avoiding their main army in the entire war. 

They were allied with Castile.  I declared war on England though, not Castile.  First I went after all the remaining provinces of Castile.  When that's done, I went for the English provinces in SW France.  Afterwards, I attacked Ireland.  Peace: more Castile provinces, one province in France, and half of Ireland.  I used my fleet to block the English transport fleet and their main army didn't come into contact with my army during the entire war. 

Sixth war I went for Benin.  So the Mali CoT, the Benin CoT, and the Gold Coast CoT, that's like 60-70% of the Ivory Coast node. I can't remember the exact order of the 7th and 8th wars, but it has to be Aragon or Kongo.  Kongo holds the remaining provinces of Ivory Coast.  I fully annexed the place and that gives me 75-80% of Ivory Coast.  9th war is England, I think, and I got London. 

I avoid going to war with France.  Their stacks are too large and morale is too high.  My strategy is to break the alliance with England on day 1.  Somehow they usually end up allying with Castile after a few decades. 

Ceuta may not be worth it but Tangiers is a must to me.  It holds a CoT and is vital to your trade income at home.  The mission lowers the coring cost a lot, almost making a profit in terms of admin points.  Trading empire to me means that I own 60-80% of each trade node from Seville - Ivory Coast - Cape of Good Hope - Zanzibar - Gulf of Aden - Goa - Sri Lanka - Bengal - Malacca - China.  The closer it is to Seville, the more important it is.  So Tangiers is crucial as it is in Seville. 

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Monoriu on December 27, 2015, 08:00:42 PM
Portugal is extremely exciting to me.  Never boring. 

Cause you don't let 40 years pass without any European wars.  :sleep:

I haven't really figured out the trade system yet. I can never make as much from trade as I do from taxes.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Monoriu

#2897
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 27, 2015, 09:43:49 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on December 27, 2015, 08:00:42 PM
Portugal is extremely exciting to me.  Never boring. 

Cause you don't let 40 years pass without any European wars.  :sleep:

I haven't really figured out the trade system yet. I can never make as much from trade as I do from taxes.

40 years?  I go to war like once every 5 years.  I usually alternate between European war and ROTW war in the initial century.  When coalitions become a problem, and when I have access to Asian/African countries, I usually do 1 European war, then 2-4 ROTW wars.

I don't know about other countries.  But for Portugal, I make as much money from trade as I do in taxes in the initial few decades.  When I start going around the Cape of Good Hope, trade incomes goes up steadily. 

Trade system.  First off, I suppose you know that the trade screen is your friend.  Using Portugal as an example, the most important trade route is Seville - Ivory Coast - Cape of Good Hope - Zanzibar - Aden - Goa - Sri Lanka - Bengal - Malacca - China/Spice Islands (there are others but let's focus on this first).  Our goal is to make mountains of cash, as in real life.  Trade "flows" from one direction to the other, and this is hardcoded.  It flows from China to Seville, where you collect your gold.  To make money from trade, a few things need to happen. 

1. You need a high % of trade power in your home node, Seville.

2. You need a high % of trade power along the entire route, but the closer the trade node is to your home, the more important it is.  You may have a high % of trade power in, say, Goa, but if your % is low in Zanzibar, the money is sorta taken out from the flow before it reaches your home node.  So it is pointless to work on Goa before you have fixed Ivory Coast or Zanzibar.  Obviously, the most important node is your home, Seville. 

3. How do we get a high % of trade power?  Each province contributes trade power, but some contribute more.  Especially the CoTs and estuaries.  Since it is not practical to conquer every province from Seville to Beijing, concentrade on the provinces that count, the CoTs and estuaries.  For Seville, the CoTs are Porto, Lisbon, Seville, and Tangiers.  Get these four, and you should already be at 50% trade power or so.  The rest of the ordinary provinces will make it up to 70-80%, and that's usually the highest you can go. I usually conquer *every* CoT and estuaries province all the way from Lisbon to China.  Once you do that, the Portugese steamroller will be unstoppable.   

4. The other way to get more trade power is to send trade fleets.  Placement of trade fleets is tricky business and there is a lot of trial and error involved.  For Portugal, trade fleets is usually a slight boost only.  They can't replace the fundamental which is conquering CoT provinces.  This is because for Portugal, the bulk of the naval force limit is taken up by transports (I go 1:1.  For every land regiment, there should be a dedicated transport after the first few decades).  So don't count on it.  Get the CoTs. 

5. There are other methods to boost trade power, like building markets.  I always build markets in the CoT provinces, but I don't bother with the others.  Or diplomacy (I don't bother either).  Don't choose the transfer trade power option in peace deals because that counts as a diplo relations against your limit. 

6. Then you need to worry about merchant placement.  There are two kinds of usage, collect and transfer. 

a. Collect.  You automatically collect at your home, so a merchant in Seville is not a must.  Having said that, having a merchant there boosts income a bit, like 10%.  My experiments have shown that, for Portugal, Seville is the basket that holds all the eggs, so putting a merchant there IS worth it.  As you expand, you'll get land in other trade nodes in Europe (say, Aragonese lands are in Genoa, London is in the English Channels, etc).  Once that happens, it is important to remember to put merchants in those nodes to collect, otherwise you get nothing. 

b. Transfer.  Trade flows from one direction to the other.  Some trade nodes are one-way only, like Cape of Good Hope.  It enters from Zanzibar, and exits to Ivory Coast.  There is no alternative.  So there is no need to transfer power as it happens automatically.  But for say, Gulf of Aden, the story is different.  Trade comes form Goa, but it may exit Aden to either Zanzibar, or Alexandria.  For Portugal, you want the trade to go to Zanzibar.  To make that happen, you absolutely must place a merchant there to direct the trade downwards.  The rule is, place merchants at nodes where they can "direct the traffic".  Places like Aden or Malacca are like that. 

c. Getting the merchants.  As you can see, you need lots of merchants.  For Portugal, the main ways to get more merchants are setting up trading companies, and getting colonial countries.  For trading companies, just make sure you press the buttons to give the provinces to them, and have enough provinces in a given area.  You can switch back easily.  For colonial countries, each one will give you a merchant if it has 10 cities.  This is important to remember when you colonise.  Always count to 10 before you stop sending the colonists.

7. Trade efficiency.  This is essential.  This is a multiplier applied to your trade income.  This makes or breaks your finances and hence your game.  Trade efficiency is gained from technology, events, triggered modifiers, ideas, etc.  Always accept choices that boost your trade efficiency.  Avoid event options that lower it.  Go to India and China as soon as you can, there are some triggered modifiers that boost trade efficiency.  Never embargo someone. 

Eddie Teach

That's a lot to chew on. Thanks for the explanation.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

crazy canuck

Mono gave a good explanation. 

One last suggestion - Portugal gets a lot of events to boost mercantilism.  Make sure you select that option.  The higher the mercantilism the better.

Josephus

Forgot all about trading companies :lol: They change the game so often, hard to keep up
Civis Romanus Sum

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Caliga

Quote from: crazy canuck on December 28, 2015, 09:23:44 AM
Mono gave a good explanation. 

One last suggestion - Portugal gets a lot of events to boost mercantilism.  Make sure you select that option.  The higher the mercantilism the better.
Agreed.  In fact, I'm not sure I ever understood what transfer trade power did before. :blush:

As the Ottomans I have one merchant collecting trade in Constantinople, one transferring in Aleppo, and one transferring in Alexandria.  Obviously I need to change this.
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Duque de Bragança

Thanks for the detailed explanation and well-chosen example Mono.  :thumbsup:

MadImmortalMan

Man, I've been avoiding mercantilism all this time.  :P
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Josephus

Mono says never embargo anyone, but don't you avoid penalties embargoing rivals?
Civis Romanus Sum

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

Monoriu

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on December 28, 2015, 06:16:27 PM
Man, I've been avoiding mercantilism all this time.  :P

CC is right; mercantilism is good in this game.  Another way to raise mercantilism is to use papal influence. 

Monoriu

Quote from: Josephus on December 28, 2015, 07:52:15 PM
Mono says never embargo anyone, but don't you avoid penalties embargoing rivals?

That is true.  Another reason I don't embargo anyone, even my rivals, is because I need to avoid coalition wars.  To avoid coalition wars, I need to have good relations with everybody, including my rivals.  I don't want anybody, especially my rivals, to join coalitions against me. 

Eddie Teach

Alternatively, you smash them up good so they're too afraid of you to join a coalition.  :D
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Monoriu

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 28, 2015, 08:05:10 PM
Alternatively, you smash them up good so they're too afraid of you to join a coalition.  :D

That's how I'd like the game to work, not how it actually works  :P

Eddie Teach

But it does. The coalition only forms if the outraged nations think they can beat you.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?