Europa Universalis IV announced

[Zanza]

Sounds like a pretty good expansion. I'll buy it.

They usually have a sale when a new expansion comes out. If so, I might grab El Dorado which I didn't buy yet.

[garbon]

Yeah it sounds like it could really revamp the game for good - though I also feel like I've a lot of re-learning to do.

[Caliga]

Wow... the list of changes... 

[Caliga]

Started a new game as the Ottomans the other day.  It's been years since I played them and so far it feels pretty similar, though naval warfare seems too easy for me ATM.  In about 20 years I've conquered all of Greece save the islands, Albania, and nearly all of Anatolia (Candar was diplo-annexed).  I took Konya and Icel from Karaman and then Dulkadir conquered the rest, after which I invaded Dulkadir and reduced it to a rump vassal.  Got a mission to annex Trebizond and ended that war with Trebizond, Erzurum, and Erzincan, the latter two taken from Aq Koyunlu and Qara Koyunlu respectively.  It was kind of neat now everyone in that little alliance paid a price for defying me.

The naval warfare comment was because I went to war on behalf of Crimea with Venice, Genoa, and Naxos, and had no problem isolating various Venetian fleets and destroying them piecemeal.  A couple of times my fleet got bottled up in various ports though, which was kind of neat.  For whatever reason the Genoese never confronted me... I guess they were busy fighting the Crimeans in the Black Sea.

I'm guessing the new patch will break saves given all the changes, which is too bad because this game has been pretty interesting.  It's about 1520 and I've yet to fully conquer the Mamluks, though I've taken all of the Levant and then most of Iraq from Qara Koyunlu which now exists as a rump state controlling a strip from NW Iran down to Basra.  I just diplo-annexed Crete, which I'd earlier freed from Venice, because the Genoese colonies revolted after Genoa collapsed and formed 'Greece' and I didn't want Crete to be a part of that in any way, shape, or form.  Of course I then went on to conquer 'Greece' too (which consisted of the Chios islands and Kaffa).   Strangely, Mangoup still exists but is a vassal of the Crimean Khan.  Austria has blobbed the fuck out and is now too big for me to challenge, so my expansion into the Balkans stopped at Serbia and Wallachia (the latter a vassal).  I'll have to wait for a civil war or something to keep pushing into Europe.

[Josephus]

I think you can move into an enemy ZOC but then either have to go to the fort or leave the ZOC. You can't bypass a fort.

So can't move through ZOC without engaging the fort?  That would be a huge improvement.  Also makes the building of Forts a much more strategic decision.

Can forts be destroyed when they are no longer needed?

It says you can mothball them. Which means, I think, you dont have to pay maintance anymore, but you can decide to "re-open" them should the need arise.

[crazy canuck]

I think you can move into an enemy ZOC but then either have to go to the fort or leave the ZOC. You can't bypass a fort.

So can't move through ZOC without engaging the fort?  That would be a huge improvement.  Also makes the building of Forts a much more strategic decision.

Can forts be destroyed when they are no longer needed?

It says you can mothball them. Which means, I think, you dont have to pay maintance anymore, but you can decide to "re-open" them should the need arise.

Even better. 

[Caliga]

I think this all means that wars will become more about major battles and less about endless sieging, right?  Because if so that's a good thing.

[crazy canuck]

I think this all means that wars will become more about major battles and less about endless sieging, right?  Because if so that's a good thing.

I suppose it depends upon what happens when a besieging army is routed.  Do they have to retreat back to controlled territory or do that get to cheat the ZOC rules.  Presumably they get blocked.

[Habbaku]

I think this all means that wars will become more about major battles and less about endless sieging, right?  Because if so that's a good thing.

No kidding.

[Syt]

From a dev diary:

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won't cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

Full entry:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/eu4-development-diary-9th-of-april-2015.849816/

[Syt]

Also, Arumba and quill18 are doing videos of Common Sense at the moment:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBPri4H7Z4LfH7BCHtWe16A

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3acGYgI1-suO0szqqGpkg0T2pF8l8c6

[Liep]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH-huzMEgGWBPri4H7Z4LfH7BCHtWe16A

"Wiz! Wiz! This is wrong! See this? Fix it!"

Doesn't bode well for release.

[Caliga]

Yeah, if this works right I'm really looking forward to it.  I mean, historically the Turks conquered the Mamluk Empire in like a two year war.  Right now it's totally impossible to do that (aside from constraints imposed by the peace mechanics) due to the insane number of provinces the Mamluks typically have and the need to siege them all.  I'm not saying you should always be able to pull that off, but it would be nice if it was actually possible.  I've spent decades fighting the Mamluks in my current Ottoman playthrough because their empire is just so gigantic (the fact that they are allied with Persia and a blobbed-out Tunis isn't helping either).

[DGuller]

From a dev diary:

Fortress Rework
Connecting a bit to the previous reveal of our change to how building works, we have overhauled the fortress system.

There are now four different forts, one available each century, providing 1, 3, 5 and 7 fort-levels each. A newer fort makes the previous obsolete, so you only have 1 fort in each province. Each fortress also provides 5000 garrison per fort level, so besieging a fortress now requires a large investment.

Forts now also require maintenance to be paid each month, which currently costs about 1.5 ducats for a level 1 fort per month in 1444. Luckily, you can mothball a fortress which makes it drop to just 10 men defending it, and won't cost you anything in upkeep.

Garrison growth for a fort is also a fair amount slower than before, so after you have taken a fort, you may want to stick around to protect it for a bit.

What is most important to know though, is that forts now have a Zone of Control. First of all, they will automatically take control of any adjacent province that does not have any forts that is adjacent and hostile to them. If two fortress compete over the same province, then the one with highest fort-level wins and in case of a tie, control goes to the owner of the province. Secondly, you can not walk past a fortress and its zone of control, as you have to siege down the blocking fort first.

Each capital have a free fort-level, but that fort will not have any ZoC, as most minor nations can not afford a major fortress.

Full entry:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/eu4-development-diary-9th-of-april-2015.849816/

I think some of this is outdated.  Paradox said that the original setup was making wars unwinnable.

[garbon]

Here was the latest on when approaching a fort, from Wiz.

Basically, whenever inside a hostile's fort ZoC (including standing on the fort) you may only do one of four things:
1) Go to the fort (if not already there)
2) Go back the exact way you came
3) Go to an adjacent seazone if you have transports there
4) Go to an adjacent friendly-controlled province that is not in a hostile ZoC