Where do atheists get their morals from?

[Viking]

Perhaps if Hitchens was less concerned about religion poisoning anything and more concerned with tobacco poisoning, him he might still be alive.

You mentioned "memes" as a source of morality.  Perhaps you'd like to show us the proof that memes actually exist?

Proselytizing religions are memes. Perhaps you'd like to show us some proof that you understand the word?

I thought Malthus gave a pretty compelling answer.  It seems you ignored it because the answer did not trash religion.

What I said is not what Raz said I said.

Malthus gave a good explanation of how morals are memes. He argues that morality evolves as their expression by religion evolves.  That is what I argued in the OP. Religion and Culture are how memetic evolution of morals happens. I didn't reply since I agreed and no issues with what he wrote. I don't do "+1" posts. (I have done one or two, but I try not to).

Morals change over time, that pretty much confirms that we don't get descriptive morals from holy books. I argued that we have a natural evolved sense of morals where the process of selection is in success of the society.

You seem to have ignored what I said because you simply assumed that I was trashing religion.

[garbon]

sigh... usual suspects though..

naturally nobody has commented on the issues in the OP yet.

You started a thread like you were posing a question and then jotted out a close minded dissertation. What is there to discuss?

[Viking]

sigh... usual suspects though..

naturally nobody has commented on the issues in the OP yet.

You started a thread like you were posing a question and then jotted out a close minded dissertation. What is there to discuss?

Something other than unthinking vitriol. You have no reason to call it a close minded dissertation. It was me expressing my view of the issue. Nobody has actually suggested I re-evaluate any part of my thesis and nobody has proposed any alternative. The views against me have varied from dismissing it without reason to calling me crazy. 

If anything is closed minded is the first anti-viking post

Didn't read your long post but i'll assume it's anti-religious. As to the question at hand, morals are societal. Atheists have the same moral guidelines as any other person in said society. and like their religious counterparts atheists can  choose whether or not to follow the guidelines. i doubt most religious people go "if i do this will god get mad at me? I know i sure didn't when i was religious. They know what right at and wrong just like any other person growing up, they were taught what was right and what was wrong.

That is what my closed minded opponents have assumed. They didn't bother reading my post and just assumed it was an anti-religion rant.

Nobody has replied to the OP. My supposed close mindedness is all in your mind.

[garbon]

Okay?

[Neil]

Viking, you have to work past your reputation as an unthinking anti-religious automaton that just spews recycled Dawkins lines at us.

[grumbler]

Nobody has replied to the OP.

Your OP was just a bunch of silly assertions that you thought "answered" a question no one was asking.

It wasn't worth responding to, so I didn't respond.  Others lack my self-discipline, and so you have this train wreck of a thread.  It didn't even deliver, except for your personal insults, because your posts are simply opaque.

[Viking]

Viking, you have to work past your reputation as an unthinking anti-religious automaton that just spews recycled Dawkins lines at us.

It's my fault other people are close minded bigots? I didn't go off on a tangent attacking some invented strawman.

[garbon]

Well sure it wasn't a tangent as that was where you started off.

[Viking]

Well sure it wasn't a tangent as that was where you started off.

Ah, the eloquence of the "I know you are but what am I?" school of logic.

[garbon]

You're the one who keeps throwing out the insults.

[Viking]

You're the one who keeps throwing out the insults.

I'm feel free to call people liars, bigots and amoral when in my opinion they lie, are bigoted or are amoral.

[Tonitrus]

If you cannot respect faith, then how can you believe in love?  (or more pointedly, that someone else loves you?)

[Viking]

If you cannot respect faith, then how can you believe in love?  (or more pointedly, that someone else loves you?)

I don't see how faith has anything to do with love. Why do I need faith to think that someone else loves me?

I have seen this issue brought up many times before. So feel I should include some of the standard sources of confusion regarding this argument.

The use of the word faith as in religious faith and the use of the word faith as in causal or inferred faith can be the source of the confusion. Having faith that somebody loves me is not the same as in having faith that god exists. The former is based on experience and evidence and the latter is not. I have faith that my mother loves me because I have the evidence; what she does, how she does it, what choices she makes, what she says and my best evaluation of her state of mind.

To make it a bit more abstract - Robin has faith that Batman will rescue him from the Joker's trap not because he believes in God or accepts supernatural claims without evidence. Robin has faith that Batman will rescue him because of his knowledge of Batman's skill, values, determination and motivation. Religious faith has nothing to do with it.

[crazy canuck]

The use of the word faith as in religious faith and the use of the word faith as in causal or inferred faith can be the source of the confusion. Having faith that somebody loves me is not the same as in having faith that god exists. The former is based on experience and evidence and the latter is not. I have faith that my mother loves me because I have the evidence; what she does, how she does it, what choices she makes, what she says and my best evaluation of her state of mind.

More assertion.

How do you know your mother didnt do all those things out of a sense of duty rather than love.  How do you know you are not misinterpreting what you percieve as love.   Your best evaluation of another persons state of mind is no better or worse than BB's evaluation of the evidence he has to support his faith.

I happen to disagree with BB on the issue of whether God exists.  But I would never doubt the bona fides of his faith that such a God does exist.

[DGuller]

If you cannot respect faith, then how can you believe in love?  (or more pointedly, that someone else loves you?)

Why would you need faith?  I personally know that it's illogical for someone to not love me.