The State of Affairs in Russia

[Queequeg]

Russia never had capitalism before the Soviets - it went straight from feudalism to communism. You can argue some similarities with China there, but on top of that the Chinese had a history of functioning bureaucracy and administration - the only good period Russia had by contrast was when it tried to Westernise under Peter the Great.

Russia didn't really have Feudalism.  That's a Marxist myth.  I don't think Feudalism really works as a model east of the Danube.  The Ottomans and Russians based their economic and political structures on Byzantium and the Mongol Empire, both of which were profoundly autocratic and centralized in a way totally foreign to Medieval and Early Modern Western Europe. 

I also think you are overstating the case.  Russia's government between Peter the Great and Catherine was generally pretty good.  Beating Napoleon was as much the triumph of the Russian military and governance as the winter.  Problem is, as with all strict authoritarian regimes with particularly vicious extractive institutions, it pretty quickly devolved in to nepotism and incoherence.  Even then, though, in 1914-1917 there was a real civil society that managed to put up a pretty good effort through most of WWI even while the house was catching fire. 

I think China has a history of respect for authority and meritocracy that Russia never totally did. There's a village-y equalizing tenancy and post-Soviet/late Empire cynicism that make Putin's brand of honest nepotism acceptable and not seem not that much different from the West.  That's probably as important as anything.  It took Mao, the Japanese and the Warlords to kill off the ineffectual Chinese noble-bureaucrat with massively long fingernails  who believed competent governance was knowing all of the Confucian canon but after that class died off the respect for authority and principle of merit survived. 

[Queequeg]

Weber's entire argument was that Confucianism gave no respect to the profit motive.

How has that worked out for him?

Weber was accurately descibing the last 500 years of Chinese history.

Ehhhhh.  You really need to stop with this academic hero worship.

Weber is Weber. 

[Berkut]

When China shifted toward market socialism there was a ready supply of Chinese exiles that could come back to the country to help set it up. 

I don't think (though not 100% sure) that this is accurate. It is not my impression that the Chinese diaspora returned to the PRC after the shit to market socialism.

Purely anecdotal of course, but my best friend through high school and college was Chinese, his father fought with the Nationalists in WW2, fled to Taiwan, then emigrated to the US.

His father and himself both returned to China, once it was allowed/safe. His father in business making clothes, and he started a university that coordinates with the University of Arizona to do exchange programs. So in that case, there was most certainly a return of emigres back to China.

I don't know or claim that it is representative of a trend though.

[Syt]

[Jacob]

Purely anecdotal of course, but my best friend through high school and college was Chinese, his father fought with the Nationalists in WW2, fled to Taiwan, then emigrated to the US.

His father and himself both returned to China, once it was allowed/safe. His father in business making clothes, and he started a university that coordinates with the University of Arizona to do exchange programs. So in that case, there was most certainly a return of emigres back to China.

I don't know or claim that it is representative of a trend though.

That's pretty cool. Maybe it's more common than I thought, I'm no expert.

You should go visit him some time

[dps]

Russia didn't really have Feudalism.  That's a Marxist myth.  I don't think Feudalism really works as a model east of the Danube.  The Ottomans and Russians based their economic and political structures on Byzantium and the Mongol Empire, both of which were profoundly autocratic and centralized in a way totally foreign to Medieval and Early Modern Western Europe. 

Uhm, depends on exactly what one means by feudalism.  AFAIK, Russia never really had the vassal/overlord relationships that characterized feudalism in, say, Germany, but to a lot of people, having serfdom equals feudalism.    Of course, that's not really an accurate definition of feudalism, but I'm not sure what else you'd call the economic structure of Imperial Russia.  It certainly wasn't market capitalism, and mercantilism doesn't fit either.  As I understand it, it was basically a barter economy.

[Queequeg]

Russia didn't really have Feudalism.  That's a Marxist myth.  I don't think Feudalism really works as a model east of the Danube.  The Ottomans and Russians based their economic and political structures on Byzantium and the Mongol Empire, both of which were profoundly autocratic and centralized in a way totally foreign to Medieval and Early Modern Western Europe. 

Uhm, depends on exactly what one means by feudalism.  AFAIK, Russia never really had the vassal/overlord relationships that characterized feudalism in, say, Germany, but to a lot of people, having serfdom equals feudalism.    Of course, that's not really an accurate definition of feudalism, but I'm not sure what else you'd call the economic structure of Imperial Russia.  It certainly wasn't market capitalism, and mercantilism doesn't fit either.  As I understand it, it was basically a barter economy.

Uh, probably closest to something like the economies of the ancient world.  Pretty close to a Palace economy, or maybe the Byzantine economy without Constantinople.  The Tsar had waaaaay too much power and authority to make a decent comparison with Medieval Europe.  There also wouldn't really be Manorialism of the type we'd recognize from Europe until it was introduced artificially by Peter.  Even then it was awkward. 

[The Brain]

The Nobel family made millions in Russia. AFAIK they didn't use barter.

[Zanza]

How is Russia seen around the world: http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/inforgraphic-views-of-russia/25459393.html

[Eddie Teach]

They really should arrange that list by ratio of favorable to unfavorable.

And really, 60% of Pakistanis were like "Russia? Who the fuck are they?" 

[Sheilbh]

And really, 60% of Pakistanis were like "Russia? Who the fuck are they?" 

I liked that

Also surprised by India.

[Admiral Yi]

Greece is interesting.

[Martinus]

How is Russia seen around the world: http://www.rferl.org/contentinfographics/inforgraphic-views-of-russia/25459393.html

lol @ Poland 

[Martinus]

Greece is interesting.

Yes, the only traitors within the EU. They should be kicked out - and I don't think anyone would miss them.

[CountDeMoney]

The fuck, Vietnam?  Is this still First Blood: Part II?