The State of Affairs in Russia

[Solmyr]

Well, Putin has the support of the exiled nobles ... 

Well, he is the Czar.

[DGuller]

Putin is a strongman, not an economist.  I think that explains his strategy (or seeming lack of it).  High oil prices made his lack of economic acumen less of an issue, and it gave his economically capable advisers more room to maneuver.  Now that the margin calls are coming in, and you can only satisfy cronies or capitalists, but not both, his weakness is exposed front and center.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Yeah, I knew Russia was in for some pain when Putin started talking about trying to replace as much trade as possible with domestic production/consumption of goods. When you start hearing nonsense like that from people in power (and there's a long history of it), economic disaster often follows.

I find it shocking the Russian people, notoriously cynical, are so easily whipped into a patriotic frenzy over some chest thumping and conspiracy theory babble from Putin, though. The Chinese don't even pretend to have a free society but their people seem a lot less trusting of the nonsense Beijing spouts off about from time to time.

In a lot of ways I do think it hard to deny China's approach to essentially ending communism has worked out a lot better than Russia's. China wasn't built on a lot of vassalized States, though, so of course its path was always going to be easier.

[Admiral Yi]

One great advantage China had is they are genetically programmed to make money.  Russia is a nation of dull-eyed serfs, patiently waiting in line for their bowl of gruel, and occaisonally rising up to decapitate their masters and rape his wife.

[CountDeMoney]

I find it shocking the Russian people, notoriously cynical, are so easily whipped into a patriotic frenzy over some chest thumping and conspiracy theory babble from Putin, though.

Russian cynicism is really more of a sort of fatalistic resignation, surpassed only by their blinkered ethno-nationalism and goofy ass appetites for all types of conspiracy (read: Western) theories.  A werry silly pipples.

[DGuller]

I find it shocking the Russian people, notoriously cynical, are so easily whipped into a patriotic frenzy over some chest thumping and conspiracy theory babble from Putin, though.

I can think of a couple of explanations.  First of all, Russians are indiscriminate when it comes to cynicism.  They're just as likely to be cynical about US as they are about their own government.  Secondly, Russians are extremely patriotic, for reasons that obviously cannot be explained by logic.  That makes them especially vulnerable to propaganda that taps into "us vs. them" mentality.

[Queequeg]

One great advantage China had is they are genetically programmed to make money.  Russia is a nation of dull-eyed serfs, patiently waiting in line for their bowl of gruel, and occaisonally rising up to decapitate their masters and rape his wife.

[Queequeg]

There is arguably as long a history of active participation in the market in Russia as in China.  Siberia was colonized largely by hardasses who were so desperate for money and to get away from the encroachment of serfdom that they were willing to live in Siberia.   You can imagine an alternative Russian history where the relative liberalism of Siberia and the Steppe serves as as kind of the placenta of Russian capitalism in the same way the Chinese diaspora in SE Asia and Hong Kong did for the Chinese Mainland.  Just didn't happen that way, sadly. 

[Admiral Yi]

Not sure what crushing point you think that poster delivers Squeelus.

[Neil]

There is arguably as long a history of active participation in the market in Russia as in China.  Siberia was colonized largely by hardasses who were so desperate for money and to get away from the encroachment of serfdom that they were willing to live in Siberia.   You can imagine an alternative Russian history where the relative liberalism of Siberia and the Steppe serves as as kind of the placenta of Russian capitalism in the same way the Chinese diaspora in SE Asia and Hong Kong did for the Chinese Mainland.  Just didn't happen that way, sadly.

I think that would have required the Russian territories in the West to have been subjugated, and perhaps cleansed. 

[Razgovory]

Not sure what crushing point you think that poster delivers Squeelus.

When China shifted toward market socialism there was a ready supply of Chinese exiles that could come back to the country to help set it up.  People who had fled China when it went Red but also Chinese communities living in other countries like Singapore and Indonesia.  When the Soviet Union fell apart there was no similar community to draw upon.  Those that fled Russia when when commie weren't around anymore, and if they were they were to old.  There just weren't many Russians who knew how a free market actually worked.  It isn't just China.  A lot of Poles were able to leave Poland in the 1970's and 80's and came to the US.  Many of them went back when the country was freed and helped set up businesses.  As a result Poland's economy recovered quite nicely.

I think that his point is you can't just shift from planned economics to market economics without the people who actually know market economics work.

[CountDeMoney]

the placenta of Russian capitalism

That's downright Ide-worthy.

[Queequeg]

Not sure what crushing point you think that poster delivers Squeelus.

When China shifted toward market socialism there was a ready supply of Chinese exiles that could come back to the country to help set it up.  People who had fled China when it went Red but also Chinese communities living in other countries like Singapore and Indonesia.  When the Soviet Union fell apart there was no similar community to draw upon.  Those that fled Russia when when commie weren't around anymore, and if they were they were to old.  There just weren't many Russians who knew how a free market actually worked.  It isn't just China.  A lot of Poles were able to leave Poland in the 1970's and 80's and came to the US.  Many of them went back when the country was freed and helped set up businesses.  As a result Poland's economy recovered quite nicely.

I think that his point is you can't just shift from planned economics to market economics without the people who actually know market economics work.

Well. That, and that only 40 years ago China was synonymous with Collectivist insanity and 100 years ago Weber talked about how industrialization was impossibl in China because of its culture. And Weber was a genius.

[jimmy olsen]

One great advantage China had is they are genetically programmed to make money.  Russia is a nation of dull-eyed serfs, patiently waiting in line for their bowl of gruel, and occaisonally rising up to decapitate their masters and rape his wife.

What a bunch of racist bullshit

[Eddie Teach]

One great advantage China had is they are genetically programmed to make money.  Russia is a nation of dull-eyed serfs, patiently waiting in line for their bowl of gruel, and occaisonally rising up to decapitate their masters and rape his wife.

What a bunch of racist bullshit

What do you expect from a Korean?