The State of Affairs in Russia

[Jacob]

Well, nazis were the liberating army who kicked the Soviet occupants out. So many people who joined the nazis were not doing that out of love for nazism or hatred for Jews; and conversely many of those who joined the Soviets and fought the nazis were actually traitors.

Oh I see.

[CountDeMoney]

Besides Xi, four other national leaders have been given the award: Russian President Vladimir Putin, Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev, Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko and Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan.

Yeah, I thought that was great.

[Martinus]

That being said, the Balts took to Holocaust much more gleefully than the other nations under nazi rule. I remember reading an account that would be grotesque if it wasn't so gruesome of a professional Lithuanian football team that played a match with a German team (composed of SS or Wehrmacht - not sure). The Lithuanians won and, as a prize, were taken on a trip a local ghetto so they can shoot themselves some Jews.

Whether this is because, say, Poles hindered Holocaust more to spite the nazis or out of sympathy for the Jews is another story, of course.

The entire region is pretty fucked up.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, a lot of Lithuanians took great pleasure in having weapons-free rampages to kill their share of Jews while under German occupation. 

[Martinus]

At least Germans went through a nation-wide therapy to try and exorcise these demons. The problem with the Eastern European mini-nations (which include Poles and Ukrainians, despite being more numerous) and Russians is that they have (and still do) considered themselves victims, and react hysterically whenever anyone suggests they have been anything but martyrs. So entire nations are suffering from a deep psychosis.

[CountDeMoney]

The problem with the Eastern European mini-nations (which include Poles and Ukrainians, despite being more numerous) and Russians is that they have (and still do) considered themselves victims, and react hysterically whenever anyone suggests they have been anything but martyrs. So entire nations are suffering from a deep psychosis.

Sounds like somebody we know in the Pacific.   

[Syt]

You know what else is the West's fault? Religious extremism.

http://rt.com/politics/213511-ivanov-religion-crisis-russian/

Surge in religious extremism must be blamed on West – Kremlin official

The current outburst of religious extremism is a direct consequence of the short-sighted policies of Western nations, the head of Russian Presidential Administration says.

"You all know about the serious processes that are taking place in the Middle East and North Africa, where the ethnic and confessional balance is now being blatantly destroyed," Sergey Ivanov stated on Thursday.

"First of all we must talk about the sharp surge of religious extremism that is largely a consequence of the, diplomatically speaking, shortsighted policy of a number of Western countries," he told the Presidential Council for Interaction with Religious Organizations.

"Everyone sees this very clearly," he noted.

Ivanov added that the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS) was the most vivid example of the disastrous results yielded by the West's policies in the region.

The official said various religious minorities in the East – Alawites, Druze, Yazidis and Christians were all in a very vulnerable situation. "Hundreds if not thousands of Christian churches and other temples have been destroyed in Syria and Iraq, and hundreds of thousands of people have had to flee from their traditional dwelling places," Ivanov told the council. He gave examples of members of the Christian community in Mosul who had to hide from IS radicals in Kurdistan, saying that those who remained at home are under constant threat of death. He added that people who follow traditional Islam were also suffering from repression and threats from Islamic State.

In the same speech the Kremlin official said that the ongoing crisis in Ukraine caused many physical attacks on Russian Orthodox churches and priests, on which the Kiev authorities were turning a blind eye.

"And I would like to emphasize that this is happening in the center of educated and civilized Europe," Ivanov added.

"The illegal takeover of power that happened in Ukraine in February this year led to a very serious outburst of radicalism and caused mass violations of law, religious hatred and violence against believers," he noted.

According to Ivanov, such a situation would have been impossible if the opposing parties in Ukraine from the very beginning solved their disagreements through dialogue and without external interference.

"Russia has always supported this approach and it will continue to do so," he added.

In early November, a former general of Russian military intelligence service suggested in a press interview that the leaders of the IS could be under the direct influence of NATO and certain Western states.

"There are some grounds to suspect that American and British special services could support the Islamic extremists in order to target the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation," RIA Novosti quoted Nikolay Pushkaryov as saying.

"The top of these movements could be under the influence of NATO agents," he added.

[Tamas]

At least Germans went through a nation-wide therapy to try and exorcise these demons. The problem with the Eastern European mini-nations (which include Poles and Ukrainians, despite being more numerous) and Russians is that they have (and still do) considered themselves victims, and react hysterically whenever anyone suggests they have been anything but martyrs. So entire nations are suffering from a deep psychosis.

yeah

[Tamas]

That being said, the Balts took to Holocaust much more gleefully than the other nations under nazi rule. I remember reading an account that would be grotesque if it wasn't so gruesome of a professional Lithuanian football team that played a match with a German team (composed of SS or Wehrmacht - not sure). The Lithuanians won and, as a prize, were taken on a trip a local ghetto so they can shoot themselves some Jews.

Whether this is because, say, Poles hindered Holocaust more to spite the nazis or out of sympathy for the Jews is another story, of course.

The entire region is pretty fucked up.

Well, more Polacks did more to save Jews than Baltics or Hungarians (or Ukrainians) I give you that much. But as far as general population goes, Poles weren't that vehemently opposing the whole cleansing thing, were they?

[Jacob]

Well, more Polacks did more to save Jews than Baltics or Hungarians (or Ukrainians) I give you that much. But as far as general population goes, Poles weren't that vehemently opposing the whole cleansing thing, were they?

Yeah, it's not my impression that Poland comes off particularly well when it comes to how Polish Jews were treated. They look better than some others, but that's primarily because those others were just plain terrible.

... that's my impression, anyhow.

[Sheilbh]

A slightly similar situation is the difficulty of the Republic of Ireland's remembrance of the around 150 000 or so Irish volunteers during WW2 - in the forces there were actually more volunteers from the South than conscripts from the North. It was only really recognised (and even then only in an all-Ireland context) 50 years after the war.

[Tamas]

A slightly similar situation is the difficulty of the Republic of Ireland's remembrance of the around 150 000 or so Irish volunteers during WW2 - in the forces there were actually more volunteers from the South than conscripts from the North. It was only really recognised (and even then only in an all-Ireland context) 50 years after the war.

I am no expert of that particular history, but I doubt the Irish conflicts have any serious chance of measuring up to the savagery of East Euro ethnic strife.

[Sheilbh]

I am no expert of that particular history, but I doubt the Irish conflicts have any serious chance of measuring up to the savagery of East Euro ethnic strife.

I said slightly similar

Though Ireland was bad historically, I think the paupers in large parts of Ireland were probably in as bad a situation as the poor in any other part of Europe for a long time. I agree in the modern era absolutely but I'm not sure pre-20th century - foreign visitors including some from Eastern Europe always comment on how bad the situation was in Ireland compared to, say, the Baltics.

But I meant more that you've a country that's just won its independence (with a civil war on the way) and volunteers go and join the old oppressor in their war effort. There's always been an element of treachery there which made it difficult to acknowledge, far less remember - which is made even more difficult by the knowledge that the force they were fighting was evil and Ireland's neutrality, in retrospect, a bit too punctilious (Eamon de Valera famously visited the German Embassy to pass on his condolences on Hitler's death).

[HVC]

Ruble at an all time low. Which made me think, if things got bad enough you think Putin would ever have an unfortunate accident? Could he be toppled legitimately?

[DGuller]

Ruble at an all time low. Which made me think, if things got bad enough you think Putin would ever have an unfortunate accident? Could he be toppled legitimately?

I think it's very hard to predict.  It's probably easier to predict bubble bursts than it is to predict dictators falling.  At least with bubbles, you have some early warning, but dictators can literally go from being considered a sure thing to seeking asylum in a matter of weeks.