The State of Affairs in Russia

[Tamas]

The Barcelona Olympics were the best thing to happen to the city since Franco kicked the bucket. I'm very glad my government ponied up for them, they completely transformed this town.

There is money moving from one place to an other, of course there are those who benefit. But at the core, it is still just tax money (money coerced out of citizens) spent on a sporting event

Paid back many times by increased international exposure for the city (tourism has skyrocketed since the 90s) and all the tax money it brings, and the use we get off the infrastructure and urban redevelopments (like the cleaning up of the shoreline that opened up the area to private investment in housing and office space). I think the Barcelona Olympics are a good case study of government spending that serves as a catalyst for growth in an urban area. It's not always necessarily the case, but I think you can't have such a black-and-white view, as with everything you balance the benefits vs the expenses.

True. But the power which allows the state to have such investments is also the power which allows them to fuck up the economy and engage in abortive social engineering projects and whatnot. You must balance the benefits vs. the disadvantages.

[Ed Anger]

Poor naïve Raz.

Can you think of anyplace where private investors do make the all the investment in major sports infrastructure?

The Dallas Cowboys.  Ok they probably got massive tax incentives...

I want to visit jerryworld. Just to see the big board.

[Tamas]

There is money moving from one place to an other, of course there are those who benefit. But at the core, it is still just tax money (money coerced out of citizens) spent on a sporting event

Yep. But it helped in a process that turned Barcelona into a very rich city (thus now a cash cow for tax money) and one of Europe's cultural capitals.

And obviously I'd disagree on your view of tax money

It did not occur to me that Barcelona was a poor and culturally unimportant city prior to what, 1992?

[Sheilbh]

True. But the power which allows the state to have such investments is also the power which allows them to fuck up the economy and engage in abortive social engineering projects and whatnot. You must balance the benefits vs. the disadvantages.

So your real objection to government spending on sporting events is that government exists at all?

[Razgovory]

Poor naïve Raz.

Can you think of anyplace where private investors do make the all the investment in major sports infrastructure?

The Dallas Cowboys.  Ok they probably got massive tax incentives...

It appears their stadium is owned by the city of Arlington.

[Tamas]

True. But the power which allows the state to have such investments is also the power which allows them to fuck up the economy and engage in abortive social engineering projects and whatnot. You must balance the benefits vs. the disadvantages.

So your real objection to government spending on sporting events is that government exists at all?

No. But as I keep saying, government spending should be reduced to a bare minimum necessary. The government should be a mediator in the affairs of the citizens, not the major influence. Where to draw that line is up for a debate most certainly, but I feel like in today`s world, the "government should fix it/finance it/ban it" sentiment has reached too big proportions especially in Europe. The "goal" to try and move for should be minimal state involvement, not maximum.

[Sheilbh]

It did not occur to me that Barcelona was a poor and culturally unimportant city prior to what, 1992?

My understanding is that before the Olympics it was a heavily industrial and quite overcrowded city. The Olympics was a catalyst to regenerating the city. There was lots about it as the 'good Olympics' in the run up to 2012 (the 'bad Olympics': still Montreal).

[The Larch]

There is money moving from one place to an other, of course there are those who benefit. But at the core, it is still just tax money (money coerced out of citizens) spent on a sporting event

Yep. But it helped in a process that turned Barcelona into a very rich city (thus now a cash cow for tax money) and one of Europe's cultural capitals.

And obviously I'd disagree on your view of tax money

It did not occur to me that Barcelona was a poor and culturally unimportant city prior to what, 1992?

It was. Barcelona was quite a shitty town until the 80s, present-day Barcelona was born in 1992.

[Valmy]

Poor naïve Raz.

Can you think of anyplace where private investors do make the all the investment in major sports infrastructure?

The Dallas Cowboys.  Ok they probably got massive tax incentives...

It appears their stadium is owned by the city of Arlington.

Damn your right.  Jerry-world was obviously misnamed.

[The Larch]

It did not occur to me that Barcelona was a poor and culturally unimportant city prior to what, 1992?

My understanding is that before the Olympics it was a heavily industrial and quite overcrowded city. The Olympics was a catalyst to regenerating the city. There was lots about it as the 'good Olympics' in the run up to 2012 (the 'bad Olympics': still Montreal).

It was also quite run down and had a severe-ish problem with slums. As Cel said, the Olympics allowed the city to redevelop a large part of its beachfront, projected its international image as a modern city and spearheaded its status as a worldwide touristic powerhouse.

[celedhring]

There is money moving from one place to an other, of course there are those who benefit. But at the core, it is still just tax money (money coerced out of citizens) spent on a sporting event

Yep. But it helped in a process that turned Barcelona into a very rich city (thus now a cash cow for tax money) and one of Europe's cultural capitals.

And obviously I'd disagree on your view of tax money

It did not occur to me that Barcelona was a poor and culturally unimportant city prior to what, 1992?

It certainly was far from what it is now.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-olympic-games-changed-barcelona-forever-2012-7

Crucially the games seemed to change the way people thought of Barcelona. Between 1990 and 2001 the country went from being the 11th "best city" in Europe to the 6th, according to one ranking. The IOC says that 20 years after the games Barcelona is now the 12th most popular city destination for tourists in the world, and the 5th in Europe.

And it's not only tourists, trade show bookings multiplied, stuff like hosting a trade event such as the Mobile World Congress would have been unthinkable in the Barcelona of the 80s*. As Sheilbh said, it turned Barcelona into an European capital, not just a dirty backwaterish regional one as it was before the Olympics.


*And no, it's not because there weren't many cell phones in the 80s.

[Alcibiades]

Well it certainly worked, Barcelona is gorgeous now. 

[Admiral Yi]

It was also quite run down and had a severe-ish problem with slums. As Cel said, the Olympics allowed the city to redevelop a large part of its beachfront, projected its international image as a modern city and spearheaded its status as a worldwide touristic powerhouse.

I'm surprised.  The eponymous movie (made some time in the 80's I think) made it look quite lovely.

[The Larch]

It was also quite run down and had a severe-ish problem with slums. As Cel said, the Olympics allowed the city to redevelop a large part of its beachfront, projected its international image as a modern city and spearheaded its status as a worldwide touristic powerhouse.

I'm surprised.  The eponymous movie (made some time in the 80's I think) made it look quite lovely.

The movie, even if set in the 80s, was made in 1994.

[derspiess]

It was also quite run down and had a severe-ish problem with slums. As Cel said, the Olympics allowed the city to redevelop a large part of its beachfront, projected its international image as a modern city and spearheaded its status as a worldwide touristic powerhouse.

I'm surprised.  The eponymous movie (made some time in the 80's I think) made it look quite lovely.

I had a couple Spanish teachers who gushed over how beautiful it was when they visited in the 70s & 80s.