The State of Affairs in Russia

[Razgovory]

Also Berkut I'm not gonna answer your heckles, mainly because Sheilbh responds much more eloquently and I'm 99% in agreement with what he wrote. Especially his description of the non-neutral aspect of western institutions/pacts/whathaveyou.

Of course that's the reason. The entire content of your critique of any debate is "How is the USA fucked up in this case?". If that means you defend Putin apoligism, it is a small price to pay.

And again, this is why the West is losing to authoritarians and we are watching it happen, right in front of us.

But hey, you can feel all smug, and that is what matters, right?

Oh yeah, I'm the one being smug in this thread...

On some level I wish I could see the world like you, black and white, good and evil, and be so absolutely convinced I'm right about everything. You must sleep like a baby.

I thought you were absolutely convinced you were right about everything...

[viper37]

And again, this is why the West is losing to authoritarians and we are watching it happen, right in front of us.

we're losing because a lot of us do like authoritarian streaks in our own countries, provided they're from our side.

Look at the GOP supporters who support the Jan 6th coup attempt.  Look at Zenmour's supports in France.  At other radical parties in Europe.

Russia always had useful idiots, it's nothing really new here.

Also, a lot of extreme peacenickism, like just before 1936.  Better sacrifice the small countries than wage war with a big power. Nuclear power, also, I might add.  I don't know how Putin would react with NATO troops 20k from Moscow.  Stalin would have nuked Berlin in 1941, had that been a possibility.  Putins has that possibility now.

Anyway.  Lots of people are willing to sacrifice Ukraine and a whole lot of other countries for the same reason Czechoslovakia was sacrificed prior to WII.

They are as blind as in the past, but they genuilely believe giving Putin what he wants will avert WWIII.

And when push comes to shove, I doubt a majority in Congress, not even by party line, would be willing to openly engaged Russia.  Heck, it might be closer with Taiwan, but even there I doubt the US Congress would move against China in open warfare.

And if the US does not move, no one will.  US needs to take the lead for other countries to follow.

[Jacob]

The West isn't losing. We're doing fine.

[Razgovory]

The West isn't losing. We're doing fine.

We are?

[HisMajestyBOB]

The West isn't losing. We're doing fine.

We are?

The One Ring was destroyed and with it the forces of Mordor and the dark lord himself. King Aragorn II Elessar rules in Minas Tirith and we are experiencing a time of peace and great prosperity.

[Threviel]

The Swedish Commander-in-Chief has gone public with a comment that if the west agrees to the Russian demands, he will not be able to do his job.

Meanwhile, the Swedish strategic reserve, the military force of last and first (it's also a rapid reaction force) resort have moved out to Gotland, increasing the presence there with 150 soldiers. The total strategic reserve is a company on 150 soldiers. 

Heads should be rolling over this, but the journalists are mostly leftist airheads not understanding anything so no tough questions are being asked of the politicians.

[Berkut]

The West isn't losing. We're doing fine.

[DGuller]

[DGuller]

Great minds think alike?

[Threviel]

Swedish government representatives are talking about how we cannot even think of applying to Nato, since that might provoke the bear. The traditional Swedish policy of no military alliances stand strong and we should continue with that.

That policy was all nice when we had 850.000 men, hundreds of air planes and a proper navy. We were, de facto, the northern wing of Nato in the coming Soviet attack, it was expected of everyone that Sweden would safeguard Scandinavia. There was a steel gauntlet inside the velvet glove.

Nowadays there's a jelly gauntlet.

[Zoupa]

Also Berkut I'm not gonna answer your heckles, mainly because Sheilbh responds much more eloquently and I'm 99% in agreement with what he wrote. Especially his description of the non-neutral aspect of western institutions/pacts/whathaveyou.

Of course that's the reason. The entire content of your critique of any debate is "How is the USA fucked up in this case?". If that means you defend Putin apoligism, it is a small price to pay.

And again, this is why the West is losing to authoritarians and we are watching it happen, right in front of us.

But hey, you can feel all smug, and that is what matters, right?

Oh yeah, I'm the one being smug in this thread...

On some level I wish I could see the world like you, black and white, good and evil, and be so absolutely convinced I'm right about everything. You must sleep like a baby.

I thought you were absolutely convinced you were right about everything...

Ok? I guess you thought wrong.

[Zanza]

We discussed a potential meeting between Putin and the new German chancellor in this thread before. The new German foreign minister was in Moscow now and at least as per the report below did not do the Western alliance a disservice.

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-sergey-lavrov-germany-annalena-baerbock/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=a2acca3c92-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2022_01_19_04_51&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-a2acca3c92-190296737

Germany's Baerbock faces down top Russian diplomat Lavrov in Moscow
Berlin's new foreign minister challenges Russia to 'adhere to common rules.'

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov just might have met his match.

Standing next to Annalena Baerbock, his new German counterpart, at a news conference in Moscow on Tuesday, Lavrov, the éminence grise of world diplomacy, seemed, well, a bit gray, a bit grumbly, and a tad more tiresome than his usually fearsome self.

Lavrov, who next month will complete his 18th year as Russia's top diplomat, and shortly after will celebrate his 72nd birthday, used the news conference to reiterate Moscow's many gripes against Germany, the EU and the West in general.

Meanwhile, Baerbock, who was making her first visit to the Russian capital as foreign minister from the Green party in Germany's new governing coalition, maintained steely composure throughout the encounter as she accused Russia of refusing to adhere to common rules, and challenged Lavrov on the jailing of the political opposition leader Alexei Navalny, and the shuttering of Memorial, a venerable human rights organization.

If she was at all intimidated by her far more seasoned and senior host, Baerbock did not let on.

Her opening statement lasted nearly a minute longer than Lavrov's, and she closed her prepared remarks by delivering a bit of a lecture about the obligations of public officials to maintain peace and security for their citizens, an unmistakable poking at Russia for threatening further war against Ukraine.

"We, who bear political responsibility, have no more important duty than to protect our people — especially from war and violence," she said. "I am convinced that we can achieve this best through successful talks, not against each other but with each other."

It was just under a year ago that Lavrov used a similar news conference in Moscow to brutalize and humiliate the EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, calling the EU an "unreliable partner" while they were standing together, and leaking news of the expulsion of three EU diplomats from Russia, catching Borrell completely off-guard.

On Tuesday, with the current tensions sharply raising the stakes, there could hardly have been a more striking contrast.

If a year ago, Borrell had seemed unsettled and off-balance, this time it was Lavrov who seemed a bit weary. Arriving at the lectern, he gave an audible sigh and flashed a forced smile before launching into a litany of familiar gripes. 

He complained about the "unproductive politicization" of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline running from Russia to Germany, and about accusations of discrimination against the German-language affiliate of the Kremlin-owned RT television station, which was taken off the air in December after German authorities said it did not have a proper broadcasting license.

Lavrov decried the "anti-Russian line" of Brussels, accused the "Kyiv regime" of "sabotaging" the Minsk 2 peace accords, and insisted — rather unconvincingly — that Moscow was not in any way responsible for recent fears of a military attack on Ukraine, even though Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned personally of a "military-technical" response if the West does not meet Moscow's demands for security guarantees.

"We do not threaten anyone," Lavrov said at Tuesday's news conference. "But we hear threats against us."

Baerbock, who at 41 is more than 30 years Lavrov's junior, did not flinch. At some points, she appeared to suggest that the repetitiveness of Russia's demands was getting boring even as she maintained a tone of respect, and reiterated Germany's willingness to negotiate, as well as its desire to rev up the so-called Normandy Format meetings consisting of Germany, France, Ukraine and Russia aimed at implementing the Minsk 2 peace accords.

"Russia has demanded security guarantees, and this has just been made clear once again," she said. "We are ready for a serious dialogue on mutual agreements and steps that will bring more security to everyone in Europe. Security for the people in Riga, security for the people in Bucharest, security for the people in Berlin, security for the people in St. Petersburg."

Baerbock was also firm in insisting that Moscow was responsible for the recent security tensions and destabilization of relations.

"I came with a thick discussion folder," she said. "It is thick because there is a whole range of topics where we have major, sometimes fundamental, differences of opinion. But it is also thick because there are so many issues where we see opportunities for more cooperation."

At several points, she stressed that Germany was a trading nation that relied on stability to do business.

"We have an even more fundamental interest in maintaining the European peace order, in which equal and binding rules apply to all, and on which all could rely," she said. "There will be no security in our common house of Europe if there are not common rules on which all can always refer to and rely on — be it in the exchange of economy, be it in the exchange of culture, be it in friendships, be it in families or even in the exchange of our two countries."

In response to Lavrov's assertions that Russia was not threatening conflict, Baerbock noted that there were 100,000 Russian soldiers mobilized on the Ukrainian border "for no understandable reason."

"It's hard not to see this as a threat," she said.

During a question and answer session, Lavrov continued his drumbeat of complaints, accusing NATO of "double standards" by saying its troop deployments in Eastern Europe were no business of Russia's, while criticizing Russia's deployments of troops within its own borders.

But NATO's troop presence is minuscule compared to Russia's mobilization on the Ukraine border, and some of the alliance's deployments — 6,000 troops across four countries as part of a new "forward presence" — were initiated only in response to Russia's invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014.

Lavrov also repeated his insistence that it was up to the West to address Moscow's security demands, which were laid out in two proposed treaties put forward to the U.S. and NATO last month. "We are now awaiting answers as we were promised to these proposals in order to continue negotiations," he said.

Baerbock did not repeat a common recent talking point of U.S. and NATO leaders — that some of Russia's demands, including a requested guarantee that Ukraine and Georgia will never join the alliance, are "non-starters."

Instead, she calmly gave succinct, pointed answers. And when Russian journalists used a final question to push the complaint of alleged discrimination against RT, she seized the last word. "In our country, freedom of the press means that there is no state interference in this area," Baerbock said. "We have a clear constitution, which prohibits state broadcasting in Germany, regardless of whether the state is called Germany, the U.S. or Russia."

With that, she gathered up her notes, put on her face mask, and walked toward Lavrov who appeared to expect some thanks or salutatory gesture. Instead, she strode past him with barely a glance, turned and went out the door.

[The Larch]

Germany is constitutionally forbidden from having public media? 

[Zanza]

Germany is constitutionally forbidden from having public media? 

The government may not influence the content of the public broadcasters and thir financing is independent from general taxation. The public broadcasters are similar to charter companies- established by law, but operating independently. 

Russia Today is directly influenced by the Russian government. 

[The Larch]

Germany is constitutionally forbidden from having public media? 

The government may not influence the content of the public broadcasters and thir financing is independent from general taxation. The public broadcasters are similar to charter companies- established by law, but operating independently. 

Russia Today is directly influenced by the Russian government.

What Baerbock said was that the German constitution prohibits state broadcasting, which is much more radical than the checks and balances you mention to guarantee their neutrality. So is there state broadcasting in Germany or not?