The State of Affairs in Russia

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The west really is doomed if this is what the *defenders* of the western liberal ideal think is rational argument in the context of opposing Russian aggression into sovereign states. Shelf and Zoupa basically coming to the defense of Putin.

If Western Liberal Democracy has become so weak as to not be able to withstand a more nuanced view than the one you espouse then yes, it is truly compromised.

let's hope the woke brigade doesn't gain power then...

[Gaijin de Moscu]

Had a Belarus girlfriend once too. She was the tallest woman I ever dated. It was like that Seinfeld episode where George wants to have sex with a giant. 

There was that aspect also, true

[Gaijin de Moscu]

Meanwhile, Nazarbaev (the ex-president of Kazakhstan) showed up on video, looking quite okay. The gist of his speech is "hey, I'm just a retiree, please follow our new leader."

https://youtu.be/K0ZSwtUV_bo

After days of "reports" in the mass media — escaped to the UK, escaped to Belarus, imprisoned, maybe (God forbid) dead... he's totally fine, didn't go anywhere.

[grumbler]

After days of "reports" in the mass media — escaped to the UK, escaped to Belarus, imprisoned, maybe (God forbid) dead... he's totally fine, didn't go anywhere.

  You just love to throw around that phrase "mass media" as though it was describing something, don't you?  Pretty much all of the MAGAts do the same, so you might want to adopt a different approach.  No media is mass. 

If you want to criticize a report by some media outlet, do so, but specify the report.  Otherwise, you are just giving the equivalent of "Russians have been murdering Jews for hundreds of years."

[Gaijin de Moscu]

After days of "reports" in the mass media — escaped to the UK, escaped to Belarus, imprisoned, maybe (God forbid) dead... he's totally fine, didn't go anywhere.

  You just love to throw around that phrase "mass media" as though it was describing something, don't you?  Pretty much all of the MAGAts do the same, so you might want to adopt a different approach.  No media is mass. 

If you want to criticize a report by some media outlet, do so, but specify the report.  Otherwise, you are just giving the equivalent of "Russians have been murdering Jews for hundreds of years."

I expected you or Berkut to jump on this

Sorry for this tiny bit of trolling. I'll behave.

[Berkut]

Also Berkut I'm not gonna answer your heckles, mainly because Sheilbh responds much more eloquently and I'm 99% in agreement with what he wrote. Especially his description of the non-neutral aspect of western institutions/pacts/whathaveyou.

Of course that's the reason. The entire content of your critique of any debate is "How is the USA fucked up in this case?". If that means you defend Putin apoligism, it is a small price to pay.

And again, this is why the West is losing to authoritarians and we are watching it happen, right in front of us.

But hey, you can feel all smug, and that is what matters, right?

[Berkut]

After days of "reports" in the mass media — escaped to the UK, escaped to Belarus, imprisoned, maybe (God forbid) dead... he's totally fine, didn't go anywhere.

  You just love to throw around that phrase "mass media" as though it was describing something, don't you?  Pretty much all of the MAGAts do the same, so you might want to adopt a different approach.  No media is mass. 

If you want to criticize a report by some media outlet, do so, but specify the report.  Otherwise, you are just giving the equivalent of "Russians have been murdering Jews for hundreds of years."

I expected you or Berkut to jump on this

I am sure you were completely confident Shelf or Sheilbh or CC would not call you out, that is for sure.

Sorry for this tiny bit of trolling. I'll behave.

COngrats - you are a winner at "pretending" to advance the cause of authoritarianism. Well done.

[Gaijin de Moscu]

COngrats - you are a winner at "pretending" to advance the cause of authoritarianism. Well done.

Okay

[Zoupa]

Also Berkut I'm not gonna answer your heckles, mainly because Sheilbh responds much more eloquently and I'm 99% in agreement with what he wrote. Especially his description of the non-neutral aspect of western institutions/pacts/whathaveyou.

Of course that's the reason. The entire content of your critique of any debate is "How is the USA fucked up in this case?". If that means you defend Putin apoligism, it is a small price to pay.

And again, this is why the West is losing to authoritarians and we are watching it happen, right in front of us.

But hey, you can feel all smug, and that is what matters, right?

Oh yeah, I'm the one being smug in this thread...

On some level I wish I could see the world like you, black and white, good and evil, and be so absolutely convinced I'm right about everything. You must sleep like a baby.

[Berkut]

Also Berkut I'm not gonna answer your heckles, mainly because Sheilbh responds much more eloquently and I'm 99% in agreement with what he wrote. Especially his description of the non-neutral aspect of western institutions/pacts/whathaveyou.

Of course that's the reason. The entire content of your critique of any debate is "How is the USA fucked up in this case?". If that means you defend Putin apoligism, it is a small price to pay.

And again, this is why the West is losing to authoritarians and we are watching it happen, right in front of us.

But hey, you can feel all smug, and that is what matters, right?

Oh yeah, I'm the one being smug in this thread...

On some level I wish I could see the world like you, black and white, good and evil, and be so absolutely convinced I'm right about everything. You must sleep like a baby.

I am not convinced that I am right about much at all in fact. You seem to be absolutely certain about your oh so smug "its all grey anyway, so why not Putin? At least he isn't an American" approach.

[Zoupa]

I didn't say that. As usual, you either strawman or move the goalposts. Argue with yourself.

[Berkut]

I didn't say that. As usual, you either strawman or move the goalposts. Argue with yourself.

I didn't say that. As usual, you either strawman or move the goalposts. Argue with yourself.

You didn't say that I thought the world was black and white, good and evil, and I was right about everything? Weird...

[viper37]

Your memory is not that great.  the cooperation agreements between Russia and NATO ended over the invasion of Crimea.

NATO definately cut its ties with Russia after Crimea. But Russia, its govt and its people, began to distance themselves from the West after the Balkan wars, when we attacked Serbia, among others, to try and stop the genocides there.
That was entirely their choice.

[viper37]

I guess all that weaponry is purely defensive, being bordered by the warmongering Canada and Mexico.

half of these costs are for healthcare expenditures, where as elsewhere it's not in the defense budget

[viper37]

We are competitors with Russia - and with China for that matter. Of course they are concerned with our presence in bordering states - as we're concerned with missiles they places in their own territory in Kaliningrad, near the Baltics or in Belarus or Ukraine. Or, for example, if China starts posting military vessels on the Atlantic through the development in Equatorial Guinea.

But China has threatened to invade Taiwan more than a few times.  With the same reasoning as Russia's threats against Ukraine: they're our people, we don't recognize their sovereignty.

If China had recognized Taiwan has an independance country and had never made any threats about invasion, would the US have troops there?  Afaik, there are no US military base in Taiwan or Bengladesh.  But there are troops in South Korea, another country whose neighbour dispute its right to exist.

Russia has threatened to invade its neighbouring countries, those who could have joined NATO to protect themselves.  Just like, in the past, France and West Germany were willing to participate in the alliance: there were real fears of Russian tanks rolling through Western Europe.

I see Russia and China as big bullies, and like all bullies, they hate it when they can no longer bully their weaker opponent.